SO SHOCKED

[dustystarry]

Found out today that dh been having affair for a year. I had no idea. 12 yr old dd found out
looking at a phone he had borrowed cos his was broken. I feel completely shocked + numb. Always thought Id know but I had no idea at all. Our ds 11 has Sn and is really challenging to live with. I battled through oblivious to dh fixing his feelings with another women. Not been on MN for years + had even cancelled my membership but cant sleep + didnt know where else to go :(

Dusty - did you get any sleep last night? It's not surprising that you were low last night, it was your DD's birthday. It's an emotional day when you have just separated from your H - you made her together, you are supposed to share her birthdays together - be together. It hurts that you aren't.

I'm sorry, I don't know anything about sorting out childcare arrangements before applying for the nisi. Do you mean childcare or do you mean contact?

As for wishing you could hate him for what he's done - that I can really, really empathise with. Everyone kept telling me how awful he was, how awful what he'd done was, how angry I must be etc - but I loved him and was totally unable to hate him. Still can't. Like you - wished I could.

However, love him or hate him - you have to believe he could do the worst and protect you and your kids against him emotionally and very defintely financially. He's proven not to be the man you thought he was, he's proven that you don't know him. Don't think the best of him in regard to anything. Especially not financially.
x

I got to sleep about 3ish I think. I gathered together all the things he has given me and I have to say I was surprised by how little there is. I've never put much store by material things but I realised last night that the house is full of little things I've bought him over the years and there's next to nothing that he's bought me. I'm not sure how I feel about that really. I don't need gifts but the disparity between the amount Ive bought for him and the amount he's bought me is stark and I wonder now whether this is just another clue as to how much he valued me throughout our marriage.

I'm going to go down to the CAB tomorrow (as long as social services meeting in morning isnt too long). Im in no fit state to go today . I'm also going to speak to someone in the bank and get some changes made to make sure the children and I are safe financially. I was in such a state last night that I texted him that I was considering divorce and we needed to discuss child care etc as I wanted equally shared residency for ds. He didnt answer then but spoke to me today. I don't think he believed I meant it last night but I've told him I do and that if we do make this separation permanent he will have to find a way of accommodating ds needs into his life.

Todays mood hasnt been helped by the fact that OW called my mobile today. Id turned it to silent so I could catch up with some sleep so didn't hear it ring. I asked dh if he knew why she would call me and he said he had no idea. He sounded shocked and I think he was telling the truth but who knows. I rang her straight after hanging up on him and asked her why she had called my phone. She said she had meant to call a work colleague and hadnt meant to call my phone. Since when she answered she used this other colleagues name I think she was probably being truthful but why the fuck has she got my number at all? I told her to be more careful in future and to never call my number again. She said sorry and I hung up. I expect she was shaking as much as me after that phonecall.

She got your number because your husband gave it to her Dusty. I expect she was ringing you to let you know the affair is still ongoing, but in the meantime your husband got to her first and warned her off, probably threatening to end the relationship if she took matters into her own hands again. I think it extremely unlikely that she would have phoned you by accident - and making up the name of someone with a name similar or the same as yours is no doubt the excuse she or they both settled on, knowing that you would call her back.

Thats what I thought too charbon

Dusty - Sorry you've had such a shit night/day :(

You need to know if they're still seeing each other or not. I'd be finding out independantly of him if I were you. If you know one way or the other then it will help you to decide whether to keep trying to working on your relationship or not. Of course if he's not it doesn't mean you should keep working on it, but if he is, it's a no brainer isn't it.

x

This just shows how little respect your H has for you - giving her your number.

Remember that OW's agenda is usually suspect so do be careful if she tries to contact you again - if she does say they are still seeing each other, ask for evidence such as a dated email/text rather than take her word for it.

good Lord! Here's a thought though - perhaps your H didn't give her your number (I mean seriously, why the fuck would he?) but OW went through his phone and found it, saved it for the day she decided to Tell All and force a confrontation (today) and then was phoned by your H to warn her off and for them to come up with a plausible excuse.

Shit however you look at it though - :( that you had to go through that.

Hang on, wasn't the phone your daughter found the texts on the OW's phone? That was returned to her after discovery? So could your number have been on there?

So he might not have given her the number, but if that's the truth of how she obtained it, it's beyond conceivable that she would have phoned you 'by mistake' so soon afterwards. She would have had to transfer the number from that old phone to the new one.

So I think her call was intended for you today - and as you know Dusty, I have always thought he was still in contact with her.

He swears he's had no contact with her but I just don't know whether to believe him. I mean he's hardly likely to admit it if he has but then again he could be telling the truth. The phone dd found the texts on was OWs old phone but h only had it for a couple of days + he didnt contact me from it so I don't think she got it that way. If he didnt give it to her the only thing I can think of is that I called her number a couple of days after discovery when I couldnt contact H. It was late + the house phone engaged for ages so I called her number to see if it too was engaged but it rang. I hung up after that first ring. She rang back but I didnt answer. My answer phone message would have left her in no doubt whose phone it was. I told H I dont believe she called me by accident but he just kept saying he knew nothing about it, had no idea why she had called + that he'd had no contact of any kind since that last phonecall when he told her I knew.

Hello dusty

So sorry that you are going through this.

I'm with Thumb on the she got your number from his phone theory.

I also think that she knew she'd called you, didn't expect you to call her back and maybe breathed a sigh of relief that you didn't pick up and then shit herself when you did call back.

Or, as others have said, your H warned her that you'd just spoken but if you called her straight away, and she answered, it's unlikely he had chance to talk to her, unless they were in the same room.

Which I doubt. I think she was going to try and talk to you.

Oh Dusty . So sorry you're going through this.

I have a horrible feeling he is still in contact with her, slightly freaked when you text him saying about shared residency of DS, spoke to her telling her what you were saying. Her plan didn't involve half residency of DS and she was going to speak to you about it (having got number from his phone) told him she was going to ring you, he then warned her not to. Really hope I am wrong.

Anyone know of a safe and reliable way of finding out what calls or texts have been made to his phone? Its in my name so I have full online access to the account and can see he's not contacted her from his mobile (unless he has another secret one) but I can't see what texts or calls he's received. I hate being this suspicious person stooping to snooping like this but I don't think I have any choice. If he's lying its definitely over and I need to know before I waste any more time hoping we might still have a future.

What has he done to prove he is not in contact ? Does he realise the full implications if he has contact ?

Never underestimate the full intentions or manipulations of the OW. My DH's OW literally wanted my life, if that meant going for custody of the DCs then so be it, she wanted a big house and was planning a wedding abroad for the following year (err doesn't your intended need to be divorced first ) and a big "family" holiday with my DCs and her DCs to Florida too (not sure how much money she thought DH would actually have left after a divorce, alimony and child maintenance ).

My DH had a 2nd phone for OW (and anything else he didn't want me to know about ) and he gave her my mobile no. as she "scared" him into it - OW left me a threatening message and a number of vile texts (not sure I will ever forgive him for allowing her to abuse me like that).

I think I said before that I think your DH is still in contact with OW as he doesn't appear to be doing enough to work on your marriage and himself. It was my DH's actions that made me be as sure as I could be that he was not in contact with OW even when he was staying with his parents. I knew where he was at any given time and he was always contactable, he understood that this was absolutely necessary if we were to repair the marriage.

Good luck.

He does realise yes. He always answers his phone when I ring. If he has another phone I don't know how Im supposed to find out. He does seem to be trying much harder now after his horrible behaviour 10 days ago. He also wants to keep going to counselling. I'm so confused. He was visibly upset when we spoke about divorce today (he came over briefly after counselling). He says he will do whatever I want. I don't know if this is to keep me sweet, becuase he doesnt believe I will divorce him or if he really wants to do the right thing whatever that is

He knows you've got access to phone bills Dusty, so he'd be a bit stupid if he used that mobile. I think there are some versions of phones on the O2 network that allow you to save texts, but apart from that, to my knowledge there is no way of tracing what comes into his phone, only what goes out. What phone does he use?

I think if he's in contact with her, it will be via a second phone. Could you take your MIL into your confidence and ask her to look out for evidence of one? Or check his jacket pockets when he's next round - looking for top-up/other receipts?

I think your friend's hypothesis sounds accurate, incidentally.

It's so difficult. Nobody really understands unless they have been in the same god awful situation. I know my feelings swung massively from wanting to end it, thinking I could never get past the betrayal to not be able to envisage a future without him.

It is still very early days for you, get legal advice but nothing has to be acted on. Have you had much chance to be alone with your H, to "go out" with him. It is very hard to work on a marriage if you are not "in it" IYSWIM. You both need to invest some time and energy into each other.

Spending time with eachother, you will soon see whether you want to repair the marriage, whether you still like being in each other's company. I am afraid that you will need to be the bigger person too, put aside some of your pain to do this, to be nice to him etc. You both need to do this with open hearts etc.

It is incredibly hard but whatever path you choose, it will not be easy.

Good luck

Counting did you date your husband and make an effort to be nice to him, even when he wasn't sure it was you he wanted and while he still thought he loved the OW?

I was really upset when he was here earlier. he offered to come round after work to talk. Should I tell him yes and then get him to empty his pockets and bag when he gets here before he has a chance to hide any evidence? That seems so devious but I don't know how else to find out if he's hiding another phone from me. I can't ask MIL as she would be really upset and would speak to H who would persuade her I was wrong.

I have left a FB message for the colleague who OW claimed to think she was calling and have asked her to call me but she doesnt go on it very often so not sure when she'll see it. I think she'll be honest with me but she has always been close to H so may be prepared to lie for him.

We do still enjoy each others company counting. We always have and thats never changed. Thats why all this is so hard in a way. We definitely will do the dating thing if we decide to give our relationship another try but not until then.

Dusty

If he is lying, he will always find a way to hide things from you I'm afraid. I'm so sorry, each of your posts I read saddens me more and more. I can feel the emotion in your words.

Depending on who knows what he has done, and to what extent, will depend on how much 'damage limitation' he has put in place.

What is it that YOU really want now. Other than for this to have never happened maybe? Or maybe you are a tiny bit glad he got caught, even though he will have drip fed you the actual events etc or rather given you his version of events and played the whole situation down, maybe? How do YOU feel now that the dust is beginning to settle?

If you want him to stay, with you, then he has to start to prove to you that he is making an effort, a REAL effort to SHOW YOU he wants to be with you and the DC.

Words are not enough for you. Take nothing at face value. Not yet. For me, I had to know everything. The details. Every last second of the time he spent with other women and what they did..........

Do what you have to but keep your eyes open. I'm so sorry to read this thread.

I hope that you have some good RL support out there.

Charbon my dh never loved the ow. He thought he did but he realised he was in love with being in love, attracted to the feelings she aroused in him, the mirroring, flirting etc. He was very depressed at the time and the affair "awakened" him. When ow showed her true self he quickly realised he wasn't in love and did not love her. But he wasn't sure of his feelings for me, how could he love me if he had an affair?

We both came to realise the affair wasn't about me and him or the ow but his issues etc.

In answer to your question, yes we did date when we both unsure of our feelings because we were doing our best to repair the marriage because we had 4 very traumatised Dcs (dh just upped and left without warning).

There has been an awful lot of soul searching in the last 2+ years and dh is still in counselling but we are both happier more well adjusted people now. It was a classic mid life crisis affair. The affair lasted 3 months, the ramifications much longer but only a small period of time in the context of a 50 yr marriage.

Another long waffle, sorry

Thanks Counting. That must have been very tough.

Saw your other thread Dusty, but it looks like it has run its course now. I wouldn't be so open with him about your suspicions, personally, but I hope that seeing him face to face will have helped you.

he came over and we talked. i said I had no idea what was in his head. That he never answered any of my questions with a straight answer. He replied that he wasnt trying to be evasive but wanted to be sure of his feelings first. I told him I needed more from him and that at the moment the level of concern he was showing me was about the same as I show for my dogs. I told him he needed to show it if he wanted to be here with us and be prepared to fight for me. He said he is prepared to fight but couldnt say why he wasnt beyond repeating he wanted to be sure it was the right thing to do.

I nearly didnt ask him to empty his pockets it felt so wrong but in the end I did. He didnt argue or get angry but just did what I asked. There was nothing suspicious at all. I know it proves nothing but Im glad I did it. If he's lying to me then he's going to keep lying and theres nothing I can do but if he's actually being honest now then he realises that he has destroyed all my trust in him and he has a lot of work to do to build that back up again.

He is adamant that he has no idea why OW contacted me and that he's had no contact with her in the last month. He thinks she made a genuine mistake but Ive told him that I dont believe that and that Im sure she knew whose number it was.

He admitted that he hadnt expected that I would insist on joint residency but that he understood that I wasnt trying to use ds as a weapon but was just trying to ensure that i had my needs met too. I love my son but he makes life very difficult and I have little respite from that. If h and i split up permanently one good thing to come out of that would be that ds would stay with him half the time. It would be unsettling for ds to start with but so long as we made everything very clear and routine he'd soon get used to it.

Im still very confused but feel better for talking to H about how Im feeling and making him empty his pockets etc. thanks for listening x

I understand why it's happening Dusty, but I think you're giving him mixed messages at the moment and this, coupled with him never having had someone take his choices away, is stopping him making some clear decisions. You said earlier that he didn't take you seriously when you mentioned divorce last night. He'll take that threat less seriously now, because one moment you are discussing divorce and the next, you are asking him to bring wine home and saying that you need more for him and that he should fight for you.

Even after all that, he still can't tell you it's you he wants.

I really think you'd be better off telling him you've lost patience and that he's lost you. That might not be true just yet, but I don't think your interests are best served by him having this impression that the choices are all his to make. And yes, I know you've said you might not want him even if he chooses to come back - and I know that he has said he understands this, but it's lip service really. I think you both know that he holds the power in this relationship (possibly always did?) and this is being played out again in the latest crisis.

I said to you upthread that you can always change your mind later on, but I think you need to change the power dynamics here and take control of the situation. You can probably predict how he will react to what you're saying and doing as much as he can predict your behaviour, because you've both learnt your roles very well. I think you need to step outside of that now and play a different character, whose reactions are not so predictable.

I agree with Charbon. I think you should seriously consider a trip to a solicitor, not the CAB, but a proper solicitor. And let him know that is what you as doing and that you want to formalise custody arrangements now which start immediately.

Also, are you putting half the savings into your name, I think you need to. I know you want to believe what he says and it is very painful to think that he might be lying but right now you can't take anything he says on face value. Think about his reaction when you first confronted him about the phone that DD found. You said he carried on doing stuff in the kitchen as normal and it was only when you asked to look at the messages on his phone that he realised the game was up but until then he had been totally normal. You know now that at point he was lying through his teeth and was very convincing. He has proven himself to be a convincing liar and until you are much further down the line I don't think you can trust much, if anything he says.

Sadly I've seen the H's of 3 or 4 other friends spin much too much bullshit and a lot of these men seem to lie and keep on doing so, even when it would be much easier to tell the truth but they seem to get to the stage where lying becomes ingrained. Another common theme I've seen is that they usually capitalise on the early weeks of shock and confusion that finding out causes and are busy laying the foundations for what they want, which often isn't obvious at the beginning, but seems to emerge after some time.

I'm so sorry, I know it is really painful to hear what we are saying and I hate causing more pain on top of the huge amount you already have. As Charbon says, you can always reverse what you say now , let him think you mean it though and see if he suddenly clarifies his thoughts. That's what I think at the moment, for what it's worth