SO SHOCKED

[dustystarry]

Found out today that dh been having affair for a year. I had no idea. 12 yr old dd found out
looking at a phone he had borrowed cos his was broken. I feel completely shocked + numb. Always thought Id know but I had no idea at all. Our ds 11 has Sn and is really challenging to live with. I battled through oblivious to dh fixing his feelings with another women. Not been on MN for years + had even cancelled my membership but cant sleep + didnt know where else to go :(

I feel really bad as hadn't read the thread when posted and didn't realise Dusty hadn't disclosed his history. I still haven't read the early part of the thread but have read the bits since I've posted yesterday morning.

Originally I took the view that because of the length of time you were together plus the children that will a lot of counselling he could possibly change . That was when he said it was you he wanted, being caught made him realise what he was doing etc and that I could see the difference between your relationship and what he had with his ex wife. With him saying last night he loves her, I have changed my mind and I think he's possibly setting things up to walk away. I'm afraid I've been mulling this over and I don't think you can trust a word he says at the moment.

From what you've said about when you've confronted him, he's become (or always was) a very good liar and I think you have to ask yourself very seriously whether he really has been faithful the rest of your time together or whether simply he didn't get found out. I know he changed towards you when he was with this woman but that could be because if there was anyone before, they didn't mean anything to him.

Really I think that whoever said to see a solicitor now is spot on and I think you need to do this sooner rather than later and arrange for a lump of the money to be put into an account in your name only. Sadly I suspect if he knows you have done so, he will suddenly clarify his feelings rather sharpish and you'll get a truer idea of what he is thinking once he can see that tight wallet of his being hit.

Also I think my DH might have been right when he said he is suspicious about what he has been up to with the shares and you need to have a look at the records of his share transactions over the years. Hopefully it's all been fine, but DH feels there is a chance he has used the shares to fund previous affairs. As he also has just said, maybe he has been totally above board but who can tell and really now that is the point.

With regards to the children, you do owe it to them to work things out but also to protect them (I know it seems awful to feel you have to protect them from their father), which is why you do need to involve a solicitor .

It all looks awful written down but I've seen another friend shafted financially be her ex as you know and I'm not going to see the same happen to you so would rather risk upsetting you now then kick myself later for not having said something.

And the you being selfish bit has to stop. You aren't selfish and have put up with his absences and refusal to pay for things financially which could have made things easier for you. Stop punishing yourself for what you did however many years ago it was now. Sorry , have rambled on a lot. This isn't anything I wouldn't say face to face but I know you are exhausted by talking so have written it down.

Oh Crap!! i wrote a huge long reply and got dumped out of MN by a lost connection.

Hate that!!

the gist of what i said though, is that there is only support here. This isn't what who deserves what, its about a family in pain.

I think that you do have a lot to think about what happened in the past and what is happening now. How much can you trust what he is telling you? How much do you know about what he told OW about his marriage with you? How much would it be the same as he told you that first time?

Take care of yourself and we are always here xx

Dustystarry, please don't continue to beat yourself up over the past. I am sure that had the opportunity presented itself in the last few years for you to have an affair, you would not have taken it because you have learnt from the past .

If it is of any use to you, my H was ambivilent after discovery - I remember when he was visiting, him sitting on the sofa looking incredibly smug and arrogant saying he didn't know what he wanted etc - I just told him he wasn't a prize to be won, that took the look off his face and he started backtracking straightaway.

Please get some legal advice. My DH was a consummate liar and manipulator but he was horrified enough by the affair to look at himself and into himself to get counselling and change his behaviours. They do not change overnight (my H's behaviour started when he was about 5 so really ingrained) and I had to challenge him many times (whereas before I made excuses for it). He returned for counselling about 6 months ago because the one thing he hadn't managed to change/take control over was his weight and couldn't work out why - anyway got his head straight and has now lost a stone and going down..

Only you can work out if you want to salvage this, he probably still is in touch with OW but could have a 2nd phone etc. - only he can control his fidelity. The best thing you can do is protect yourself and the DCs, try and detach from him too - you need to see some serious actions from him and atm it doesn't look like he is going to step up to the plate .

You are the prize to be won - don't forget that

Best wishes.

What you did in the past and what he has done before he met you is irrelevant to your feelings right now. It still hurts like hell and there are 2 kids mixed up in this, one which found out about the affiair and will still be feeling guilty, no matter what anyone says to her and the other with SN issues which are a whole different ball game of issues, responses and what ever else.

Past issues are something that can help you to deal with everything after you know what you want and to getting to know what you want.

Can you really believe everything he is saying to you? Can he prove it? Does he show it in his actions and not just with his words?

Can you trust him not to do this again? If not, then..well..we all know the answer to that.

I'm sorry that you are going throguh this, and you are wrong, no-one "deserves" this. No-one deserves to be lied to time and time again.

I know that you will come through this a stringer person, I just hope it's a quick and fairly easy process for you and the kids.

Thinking of you this morning - I agree that this is your time to decide what you want for yourself and the DCs.

(deburca - I joined MN in May when I discovered my H's affair, but was given a lot of help from WWIFN before she left MN if that's who you are thinking of)

Dusty [hugs] It sounds like you have some wonderful friends IRL if Wynken is anything to go by. I should be out the door by now... so just quickly... yes, a long time ago you did something very very regrettable and yes in some ways you probably didn't realise just quite how awful it was until now. He was married, you should have walked away - no matter what. However, that was a long, long time ago & nothing can change that. The difference is that you have learnt from that and wouldn't do it again. HE has not :( 18 months he's been seeing her - this is not a small oops :(

It's time to stop beating yourself up about what you did in the past and think about your future.

It sounds like he's been a complete shit about a lot of things... you have a lot to think about.

You do have the children to think about - but you need to think about what kind of role models you will both be to them if you do stay together.

Whatever you do, do not stay with him out of any misplaced guilt!!!

It's really really hard I know... many of us have been through similar things and know how hard it is.

Be kind to yourself - do what's right for you and the kids x

Dusty I agree that the material difference between you and your husband is that you learnt a lesson, that's it's never acceptable to win happiness through someone else's pain. The fact that you felt guilty at the time and ever since is testimony to that.

But I wonder given what your friend has said, that it was an unhealthy dynamic right from the start? It seems that your husband has always called the shots in his romantic relationships and this crisis is no different. Deep down it seems as though he still thinks that his marriage will survive based on his decisions and he perhaps doesn't really believe that you will decide to throw in the towel, because no-one ever has, have they? His wife let him come back before, until he upped and left yet again. It also sounds as though you have put up with so much, just to be with him.

I wonder whether he's under-estimating your ability to go it alone?

dusty the past is the past, you did what you did and took a lesson from it no point beating yourself up about it - you have been a good person from the sounds of it, a human one who makes mistakes but has tried to do what is right. He made the choice to cheat both on you and the ladies before you - you cant take responsibility for that.

mad yes your posts seemed very similar to WWIFN - she was a great advocate of Shirley Glass also.

The change in advice in the latter part of this thread is wise, and spot on.

I'm sorry OP, but the only reaonable and sound advice anyone with any sense would give you is to get a lawyer, forget the counselling, and get rid of him. He's a serial cheat. He WILL NOT stop being one - it is a fundamental part of who he is. And you have your children to think about... I would think very carefully about the example you set them now. Factor in the almost certainty that this OW isn't the first person he cheated on you with - and the path is obvious.

As for your actions years ago - everyone makes mistakes. Some worse than others. We've all done something in the past that we're truly ashamed of. The trick is to learn from it. Most of us do, and are better people for it. Just as you say.

Now, stop and think and apply that bit of life-learning, that wisdom you have now gained, to your H. Think how guilty you still feel now about how his wife was treated. Clearly, he never, ever, felt the same...despite the fact that she was his wife, the woman he made love to and married and made promises to and had dreams with. She was just a name and face to you, and you were - and are-guilt-ridden by your actions. Him? Nah. Not a flicker. How do I know that?

Fast forward to now. He's done it again, with aplomb. Because he learned nothing all those years ago. To him, there was nothing to learn. His deceit and cruelty touched him on no more than a completely superficial level... because here he is, years later, being happy to do the same thing. He's ok with infidelity and the pain it causes, because deep down, he doesn't give a shit about anyone but himself. Including his own, now distraught, DD - whose innocent childhood years he's just pissed all over.

His feelings for you are of the same calibre as they were for her, aren't they? Let's examine it. You've been together many years. You have children. Nope, makes no difference. He can happily shit on you the same way he shat on a woman he'd promised to love only a couple of months ago.

His actions here weren't a 'slip' - it's a year and a half of cold calculating deceit, bringing her into your bed - there are no words, really. It's proper, life-destroying deceit - just as he did to his poor first wife.

OP, this man is a liar, a cheat, a selfish, unreliable shitbag. He just is. There is nothing to counsel, there is nothing to 'work through'. The only thing you will find yourself working on is how to now build a life where you can lie to yourself, and lie to your children, for the rest of your life. You KNOW what this man thinks of you, and any other woman unlucky enough to share his bed. So act on it, and get shot of the nasty little cheat. Your DD will be proud.

dusty i haven't read all the thread, my eyes are turning square but would like to say as the XW of a man who had an affair with somebody, and stayed with her, however much i hated her in the beginning for doing what she did, i would never wish on her what he did to me. At the end of the day we are all human, we all fall in love nad get our hearts broken just as easily. But he is the one to have done this, to her and to you. you were not married to her, he was, as he was married to you now, the OW has made a mistake, but tbh i don't see it as their 'fault' that onus is on the husband

stay strong, you will get through this xxxx

yep, what she said

Based on his track record (and these are the ones you know about)
You will spend the rest of your life wondering when the next time will be.

You also have to realise that he most likely is not in love with you anymore and that any decision he makes may just be for the children

Personally I would take control and end it

Thanks for all the responses. I am feeling very confused atm. He seems to genuinely want to work on understanding himself more and finding out why he behaves the way he does. I showed him Shrouds post as he asked me what people thought. He didnt like it and didnt feel that he was really that sort of man. I pointed out that his behaviour showed that he was this sort of man and that however uncomfortable it might be for him to look so honestly at himself that he had to do it if he was going to make the changes he says he wants to make.

He still maintains that he is in love with me and will do his upmost to prove to me that he deserves another chance. I want to believe him but he's told so many lies and hurt me so much that I am very wary. Trouble is I think he genuinely believes he's telling me the truth but Ive known him long enough to know just how good he is at lying to himself.

He swears there has never been anyone else before this. He also says that is our relationship hadnt become so strained he doesnt think he would have done it. He wasn't trying to make excuses for his actions - I asked him outright as it was one of the things one of the posters had mentioned.

I don't think he's been in contact with her. They both risk getting into a lot of trouble at work if they contact each other using the work phones etc. I have full access to his phone records as his phone is in my name. I can't see the content of texts but all numbers called or texted etc are available online. He's not contacted her on his mobile or on our phone. I know he could have a second phone but he swears he hasnt. He says he's made a deal with me never to have contact with her again and so he's not going to. He even turned down the opportunity of having my parents old car for a few months as I said I was worried he would start thinking about her if things between us became difficult through counselling and that with a car it would be only too easy for him to see her.

Right now he's doing and saying all the right things but, as many of you have pointed out, he is an experienced and consummate liar who has deceived me for at least 18 months :( I've decided that I want to try counselling though before making any firm decisions about the future. Whatever happens we are still going to need to have a decent relationship for the sake of the children so if the counsellor can't help us find a way to rebuild our relationship he can help us find a way to build our lives apart in a way that will be the least painful for all involved.

I have informed the tax credits people plus the council tax and next week I am going to speak to the benefits office about what benefits, if any, the children and I are entitled to. It seems so sad to be planning for a life without him after so many years of planning it with him :( I need to be strong though and do what is best for me and the children however tough that may be.

Thanks for all the replies. Lots of them are hard to read but its what I need to hear. I love him and want it all to be ok. It would be so easy just to believe everything he says and take him back but I can't do that and some of the harsher posts remind me that he's treated me like shit and I deserve better.

Your poor DC's deserve better too.
I hope your cheating DH realises that he has tarnished his relationship with his daughter and that the relationship will never be fully repaired. That is perhaps the sadddest part of this whole saga. Your poor DD has the knowledge that she was the whisle blower and potentially changed the family dynamics forever.
What you do now is important for her to see how women should act when discovering they have been cheated upon, so far you have done well OP.

For the affair to go on for 18months, words fail me about the amount of planning and deceit that went into that alone

This still doesn't get around the fact that he thinks he's in love with someone else and 'doesn't know' what he wants, does it?

As for his 'reasons' for the affair, what were his excuses last time? Reading between the lines, the first OW was because he was never in love with his wife and I wonder whether he told you the same, plus a load of romantic stuff about you being more 'special' than the first OW, so this time he was going to leave?

This time, it's because your relationship was 'under strain'.

I can understand why he won't want to address the more obvious common denominator - that he just can't pass up an opportunity, but I'd hate for you to fall into the same trap.

i wont charbon. In fairness to him he says he's pretty sure its me he wants not her but he wants to have counselling to make sure that this is really what he wants and not just what he thinks he should want. He says he owes it to us to do the counselling first before making any decisions or claims. He finds it hard to see the ugly truth about himself but he is prepared to try and be honest in counselling both with me and with himself.

As for his realtionship with dd he is beginning to realise just how much damage he has done but he's not really understood how long lasting that damage could be. Im hoping that counselling will help him appreciate this too.

I don't know if we have a future together or not right now. Not sure he can change even if he really wants to. First counselling session is on monday.

He owes it to you.........oh purllllease. He wants you to be GRATEFUL, like his last wife was that you take him back. That he chose you. It's all about putting you on the back foot, to be so relieved when he chooses you. You'll welcome him back, and treat him like some prize.

Hence all this dithering, her or you, who he wants, blah, blah. It's all so self indulgent. No doubt what he put his first wife through. You only have his word for what happened there, no? History repeating itself?

There will be OW all the time, it's just a case of if, not when, he meets one he is willing to leave you for, this one he may not be 100% sure of. It took 2 last time, no?

This man is one hell of a player and a piece of work to boot.

You may be right. My heads such a mess I don't know which way is up any more :(

It must be awful. Your dd must be in bits. But obviously it's only opinion, not gospel. But you have MN to help you see through his bs x

feeling so sad tonight. Can't stop crying. been sorting through paperwork etc and separating his stuff out to either be binned or taken to his mums. Going to do his wardrobe etc tomorrow and then he can go through it sunday when we're not here and decide what he wants/needs to keep. Ive taken down all the pictures of the two of us and of my hen night and Im going to take them to my Mums with all our wedding photos etc so I dont end up destroying them one day when Im feeling angry. So very sad trying to disentangle our shared life of so many years :(

Really,not to be harsh, Dusty, but he should know who he wants to be with. He should recognise the OW for what she is, just a fantasy. If he can't do that and re commit to you and the DCs then he's not worth it.
He sounds like a weak man, not really worth having.
Good luck.

You are being strong. I personally don't think he deserves any of you.

My head knows that bubblegum. Now if could just convince my heart things would be a lot easier.

Hi Dusty - you are doing really well my love. Of course its hard - you have been together for a long time and had a future planned. It's very hard to realise that the other person didn't value that as much as you did and chose to crap all over it :(

You are doing very well to start getting things sorted out though.

You aren't alone - we're all here with you x

Thank god for MN. It gets crazy here sometimes but the support Ive had on this thread has reminded me just how great so many mners are. MN helped me get through the process of my ds being assessed diagnosed and statemented. I had better support + info from fellow MNers than from any of the so called professionals. It helps to get stuff off my chest when I don't necessarily want to talk to a RL friend. Having said that a RL friend just called and helped lift my spirits a bit too.