name changer with relationship problem

[sweepitundertherug]

Sorry if this is jumbled, I can think it all in my head, but getting it into words is harder!
My husband is odd with money. This is the crux of the problems. He wouldn't see that there are any problems. As far as he's concerned he pays "housekeeping" into the joint account & if I ask he'll put some more in there. He KNOWS I hate asking for money & I budget really well. Recently he put up the "housekeeping" by £50 a month. I am very aware that I don't may the mortgage/bills btw & aware we have no debts. So I am lucky in that respect.
On the money he gives I pay for everything for the 5 of us. I am quite frugal and I am not bothered by material things so in a way he doesn't realise how much real life costs. The last few months I've had heavy spends but I needed 2 full sets of uniform from scratch, 2 of the children had growth spurts & all 3 needed winter coats.
Due to new schools I have the extra expenses of school lunches daily, bus fares & extra diesel costs.
I don't have any money for me really. My clothes are tatty.
I really felt this on the weekend. We all went shopping. I got the children their winter clothes & a few bits of underwear they needed. DH spent over £200 on 2 jumpers & 2 shirts. He does his clothes from his own money btw.
I don't have enough money in my budget for anything for me.
On the drive there, DH was saying about the spending & then pointed out that my weekend away in July has been really expensive. It was £200 for me & the 3 kids. He was away with work & if he'd been around then he could have had the kids & I could have stayed with friends. As it is, I never ever do anything as I can't arrange anything due to his job & his travelling. Not to mention weekends taken up with sport when he is around. So this one time, I thought sod it, I'm going. I don't think he really liked that anyway but ffs, this weekend he's off ABROAD for a football game. Going early Sun & back late Weds. Also he's managed to arrange something without his work getting in the way.

Now, dh isn't stingy. It's hard to describe him really. If the kids need clothes, they get them & he wouldn't have me buying the clothes from cheap shops. Their clothes mainly come from Next, M&S or Debenhams. His clothes are labels with the odd basics from M&S/Debenhams.

He gave me £500 earlier in April. It's gone. Basically got some clothes for summer, jeans as all mine were wearing thin & got some creams/make up. Also if I went for lunch or something.

He earns a very good wage. But he can't wait for me to go back to work. I don't work now after having No3 as childcare would have wiped me out. I paid for childcare for the other 2 in the holidays. He says we will afford much more when I'm working. I was earning about £600pm. OK better than nothing but hardly pays the mortgage! He basically saved while I was working. He can still afford to save now btw. He is OBSESSED with saving. I appreciate he wants to save for university/old age but tbh it's at the expense of having a life now. Well, if I'm honest, it's only me that doesn't have a life. He does, he goes to football games etc...I feel bad "wanting" money as I'm taking away from my kids future.

To go back to the very start of our relationship, it was equal, we were both working & when we got the house we split the bills equally percentage wise from our wages. Then we moved abroad for his work. How naive (sp) I was. We didn't have a penny when we went over. We basically saved. All his salary when I worked & when I wasn't then we spent as little as possible. No joint accounts either. Stupidly.

We didn't have a joint account till I stopped work after dc3. I thought it would be a proper joint account but it's just an account he pays money in for me that he can keep an eye on.

Occasionally he gets voucher bonuses from work. He'll give me half but give me less housekeeping. This really annoys me but he can't see anything wrong with it.

He is hard to talk to as he has the knack of making me feel a bit stupid.

Our relationship is fine so long as I don't bring up the money issues. I did a few months ago & he said "oh you'd have us living out our older years in a council house" I was furious & really upset about that & then he claimed he was joking. I grew up in a council house btw.

I don't have expensive tastes at all. Labels mean nothing to me. I am a frugal cook. I got a sack of spuds on the weekend for £5.50. You know, I watch the pennies.

I keep all this buried & most of the time I am "happy". I feel jealous though after the weeekend. Childish I know but my kids & dh look fine & have lovely clothes. Mine get tatty & just get replaced when I can justify it.

I am sorry this is so long. I have to get this off my chest. My chest is really tight today.

Thank you for reading. Much appreciated.

sweepit - Does your H ever tell you that you do not 'contribute financially'?

It's interesting, Ionysis that:

a] You feel it very important to define abuse, rather than looking at the behaviours which lead to a victim being abused;
b] You chose to support your, already spurious, point by quoting a BDSM website;
c] You react aggressively to those who point out abuse where it is being described by the sufferer;
d] You choose to characterise victims as weak, stupid and/or over-sensitive;
e] You can't uphold your argument so resort to sarcasm.

Since I'm not interested in being your sub, I shan't encourage you any further. I will, for other readers, quote Womens Aid - an organisation invested in liberating women, not subjugating them - on the topic of relationship abuse.

What is domestic violence?
In Women's Aid's view domestic violence is physical, sexual, psychological or financial violence that takes place within an intimate or family-type relationship and that forms a pattern of coercive and controlling behaviour. This can include forced marriage and so-called 'honour crimes'. Domestic violence may include a range of abusive behaviours, not all of which are in themselves inherently 'violent'.

damn formatting!

You quoted a BDSM website to "show" that OP isn't being abused!

The other four points are all standard ploys used by abusers.

HTH :)

I can't see anywhere where I have reacted agressively.

I've explained my views and the rationale behind them extensively and I believe sufficiently and will now let the OP take what she will from them.

sweep - hope you are doing ok. Please don't be disheartened by some of the posts. You are doing really well and Women's Aid know what they're talking about.

ionysis - did you miss the bit where sweep contacted Women's Aid to get the expert's opinion and they agreed that she was being subjected to emotional abuse. You've made your point though I'm not entirely sure why you feel the need to keep trying to undermine the OP. I agree with garlic and your repeated assertions sound very much like those of an abuser. I wouldn't be at all surprised (though I sincerely hope not) if you were actually the OP's husband trying to justify his vile behaviour because that is how it comes across.

The views of many of the people posting on this thread who you are dismissing have been in abusive relationships and are able to spot the signs of abuse as they are so similar. I really think your advice is unhelpful at best and potentially dangerous.

OP, I think your H is of the opinion that the money HE earns, which pays for everything, is HIS money and he will treat it as such.

I see that on here reasoned debate is supplanted by the usual defence of the feeble minded - ad hominem attack so I won't waste any more of my time.

In case you do read this ionysis how is one to know whether a behaviour is intentional or arises from being an arse or, as I said, arises from an abusive and entitled viewpoint that gives rise to that behaviour?

In my opinion if a person is willing and able to alter their behaviour, having been given the opportunity to do so, having been made fully aware of the effect his or her actions are having and the potential repercussions, then restitution can be made. An abuser is not willing to change their ways.

In the beginning of my relationship wth my now husband many would say that his behaviour was abusive. He was aggressive, controlling, jealous, verbally and sometimes physically threatening, decietful and irrational. However, I did NOT agree with those who insisted he was an "abuser" because his actions were NOT deliberate or calculated. He was physically abused himself as a child and had an undiagnosed mental health issue (OCD and anxiety). Once we were able to establish the underlying causes of his unreasonable behaviour and address them, together, it changed completely.

Behaviour which causes suffering to others is indeed wrong, but it doesn't irritrievably lead to the break down of a marriage and it is not always "abuse" when one is made miserable by one's spouse. Of course sometimes it IS but you need to be able to look at the situation clearly and rationally to asses that - often with the help of a trained professional. There are other potential explanations for her husband's attititude which should be excluded before he is labelled as some kind of monster - in my view.

In any case I believe that the "perpetrator" should be allowed the opportunity to fully appreciate the impact of their behaviour and given the chance to make amends if they can. I have lost count of the number of times I've heard people say "If only I had really REALISED how unhappy he/she was...mabe we could have saved it before it was too late - but she / he never said until they were already gone".

And how many of those people who said that they would have changed actually would have done anything about it beyond a token pretence at behaving better until they'd suckered their poor partner back in for another round of abuse?

In my opinion and experience, it's not too hard to tell whether you're treating the person you love with kindness and respect. If you can't identify such normal human social behaviours, you are an unconscious abuser: not fit to be in a relationship because you are dangerous. If you can identify them, but still choose not to observe them, you are a deliberate abuser.

The fact that you chose to remain in a relationship with a dangerous person, and to change them, says something about your individual character but contributes nothing the general principle that we do not have to stay with partners who treat us as subhuman.

My husband did. If he hadn't I would have left. But I thought I at least ought to give him the chance. Even more so when leaving involves separating 3 small childen from their family environment and limiting their time with a father who, the OP admits, loves them very much and treats them well.

The issue is WHY is he behaving this way????? WHY????

Is it because he is simply an abusive asshole or are there other underlying factors which are provoking him to behave this way? If the latter can they be addressed? If they CAN, then the marriage can be improved and the family kept intact. Why is this not an equally desirable outome for the OP as ending up alone with 3 kids and no job?

"Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men" by Lundy Bancroft.

Once again you point to generic answers. There ARE no generic answers. Each answer is specific to the individuals concerned. Otherwise therapists would say "don't bother telling me about your feelings, just read this book about your particular stereotype and it'll explain everything and you'll be fixed".

If she can, the OP needs to find out what is the underlying cause of her husband's behaviour - why is their marriage so seemingly disfunctional? Does he have specific underlying reasons for his bad behaviour? They can't always have been like this or they would never have got together in the first place. SO what changed? What went wrong? And can it be put right?

BTW - I dont know where you got the whole BDSM stuff from - the definition I used is a quote from an article titled "Healing the Wounds of Verbal Abuse" which was given to my husband by his therapist. Whoever else has reproduced or parahrased it is largely irrelevant, no?

the OP needs to find out what is the underlying cause of her husband's behaviour

Why does she?

Has she not already invested enough mental and emotional effort in seeing things from his point of view?

I am only answering your posts for the benefit of other readers, who might feel sufficiently intimated by your arguments to shrink back into their victim-shaped shell. You've already scared OP off her own thread. Does that not tell you anything?

I googled your exact phrase. It only appeared on a BDSM site. If you want to use definitions of abuse in your hair-splitting derailments, you should get them from an authoritative source.

sufficiently intimated -> intimidated, obv

Ionysis

I have known the OP for some years now, and this is a long standing situation that she has put her all into rectifying for that duration. She has done everything you suggest. Over and over again.

Please leave this thread you foolish, ignorant and destructive danger of a poster.

I know the OP and take it from me, you are in the wrong. Please go.

Silly me for thinking material supplied by the qualified psychologist who is currently treating my huband WAS an authoritative source. Next time I shall be sure to use google instead...

Really it is solely up to the OP to decide whether or not she is prepared to invest more time and energy into her marriage. I would like to think in her shoes I would choose to persevere for a while longer - because I would NEED to try to understand the WHYs in this and also for my children's sake if nothing else. But that is merely my own opinion and its for her to determine when enough is enough. Everyone has different tolerance thresholds and every situation is unique.

Whilst not as dramatically impactful as "leave the abuser!!" I hope that my posts have at least illuminated an alternate way of looking at the situation than had been expressed before thus giving her further food for thought and possibly a broader perspective from which to consider her options.

Seriously - fuck off.

Pictish, all anyone on here has to base their opinions on are what the OP herself has written. My opinions and views have been based solely on what I have read. If you know more through your real life relationship wth the OP then you are in a far better position to advise her than anyone on here - and I ave stressed repeatedly my belie that she should be seeking advice and support from people IRL who KNOW her. But you can't blame me for not being psychic or omniscient when posting.

sweep if you are there try and find your way to clarity.

Listen to your inner voice and especially to you when he is not there. If you want him to change and stay then you still need to understand what he is doing so you can challenge his behaviour, if you don't then you need to understand it so you can see it is not your fault and make your own choices in your own life. And your children's.

thinking of you in all the confusion...you will get through it

if you can read Lundy Bancroft..I think you will find it affirming and helpful, even my friends who are not in abusive relationships have found it helpful in interacting with the world around them and understanding people.

Your attitude is disgusting. You have belittled the OP and heaped scorn upon the good advice she has been given here.

Fuck. Off.