name changer with relationship problem

[sweepitundertherug]

Sorry if this is jumbled, I can think it all in my head, but getting it into words is harder!
My husband is odd with money. This is the crux of the problems. He wouldn't see that there are any problems. As far as he's concerned he pays "housekeeping" into the joint account & if I ask he'll put some more in there. He KNOWS I hate asking for money & I budget really well. Recently he put up the "housekeeping" by £50 a month. I am very aware that I don't may the mortgage/bills btw & aware we have no debts. So I am lucky in that respect.
On the money he gives I pay for everything for the 5 of us. I am quite frugal and I am not bothered by material things so in a way he doesn't realise how much real life costs. The last few months I've had heavy spends but I needed 2 full sets of uniform from scratch, 2 of the children had growth spurts & all 3 needed winter coats.
Due to new schools I have the extra expenses of school lunches daily, bus fares & extra diesel costs.
I don't have any money for me really. My clothes are tatty.
I really felt this on the weekend. We all went shopping. I got the children their winter clothes & a few bits of underwear they needed. DH spent over £200 on 2 jumpers & 2 shirts. He does his clothes from his own money btw.
I don't have enough money in my budget for anything for me.
On the drive there, DH was saying about the spending & then pointed out that my weekend away in July has been really expensive. It was £200 for me & the 3 kids. He was away with work & if he'd been around then he could have had the kids & I could have stayed with friends. As it is, I never ever do anything as I can't arrange anything due to his job & his travelling. Not to mention weekends taken up with sport when he is around. So this one time, I thought sod it, I'm going. I don't think he really liked that anyway but ffs, this weekend he's off ABROAD for a football game. Going early Sun & back late Weds. Also he's managed to arrange something without his work getting in the way.

Now, dh isn't stingy. It's hard to describe him really. If the kids need clothes, they get them & he wouldn't have me buying the clothes from cheap shops. Their clothes mainly come from Next, M&S or Debenhams. His clothes are labels with the odd basics from M&S/Debenhams.

He gave me £500 earlier in April. It's gone. Basically got some clothes for summer, jeans as all mine were wearing thin & got some creams/make up. Also if I went for lunch or something.

He earns a very good wage. But he can't wait for me to go back to work. I don't work now after having No3 as childcare would have wiped me out. I paid for childcare for the other 2 in the holidays. He says we will afford much more when I'm working. I was earning about £600pm. OK better than nothing but hardly pays the mortgage! He basically saved while I was working. He can still afford to save now btw. He is OBSESSED with saving. I appreciate he wants to save for university/old age but tbh it's at the expense of having a life now. Well, if I'm honest, it's only me that doesn't have a life. He does, he goes to football games etc...I feel bad "wanting" money as I'm taking away from my kids future.

To go back to the very start of our relationship, it was equal, we were both working & when we got the house we split the bills equally percentage wise from our wages. Then we moved abroad for his work. How naive (sp) I was. We didn't have a penny when we went over. We basically saved. All his salary when I worked & when I wasn't then we spent as little as possible. No joint accounts either. Stupidly.

We didn't have a joint account till I stopped work after dc3. I thought it would be a proper joint account but it's just an account he pays money in for me that he can keep an eye on.

Occasionally he gets voucher bonuses from work. He'll give me half but give me less housekeeping. This really annoys me but he can't see anything wrong with it.

He is hard to talk to as he has the knack of making me feel a bit stupid.

Our relationship is fine so long as I don't bring up the money issues. I did a few months ago & he said "oh you'd have us living out our older years in a council house" I was furious & really upset about that & then he claimed he was joking. I grew up in a council house btw.

I don't have expensive tastes at all. Labels mean nothing to me. I am a frugal cook. I got a sack of spuds on the weekend for £5.50. You know, I watch the pennies.

I keep all this buried & most of the time I am "happy". I feel jealous though after the weeekend. Childish I know but my kids & dh look fine & have lovely clothes. Mine get tatty & just get replaced when I can justify it.

I am sorry this is so long. I have to get this off my chest. My chest is really tight today.

Thank you for reading. Much appreciated.

I for one am bloody glad she has written this thread...I am glad she has been validated by the posters here, and I am glad she continues to update. She needs somewhere to put all this stuff and it is helping her no end.

I am very sorry you saw fit to stick your ignorant yet arrogant oar in.

ionysis..I understand that you don't want all women with husbands who have problems just to turn round and shut the door.

I applaud you and your husband for doing what you have done.

But remember people posting on here have often laboured for years and years trying to make silk purses out of sows ears (13 in my case) please be gentle...you are obviously doing what you think is right but you could sound kinder and give more resource links so the op and others can find out what they think of your solutions.

ionysis

I have read your posts. I do not agree with everything you say, but I believe you are genuinely trying to help. You have a different view from many others here, that is something that often generates friction on the relationship board. If you are up for it, I think your view would be an interesting and valuable addition to the forum. Be prepared for lots more of what you are seeing now though.

To be truthful Ionysis...I see some sense in the points you raise...of course I do.
However, you have put them here in such an arrogant and condescending manner, so convinced of your rightousness, that you have annoyed the living fuck out of me.

When finally the OP is beginning to gather the strength to leave her abusive husband, along you come and tell her she probably needs to try harder.

How the fuck would you know? SHE is TELLING you what is going on!!

Ionysis, what you have posted could be seriously damaging to someone living with domestic abuse. You've come on this supportive thread and told the OP that she is mistaken because she has mental health issues.

Just because someone has had or currently has mental health issues does not mean that they are not experiencing abuse within their relationships, in actual fact it is more common for abuse to occur where mental health issues are involved.

I too know the OP in real life, and have given her advice off line as well an on here, I know of the history between her and her husband and in my experience (having worked for women's aid for 2 years) it is an abusive relationship.

My default position in any situation like this is to advise the person concerned to call women's aid to get impartial advice and support which is what has happened on this thread. Then it is down to the person concerned to make their own decision without being told that they should try harder and stop being so mental.

I agree MrsPnut - and I only wish I had put it as you did, but to tell the truth, I was so aghast at what Ionysis had to contribute, I quite fired myself up.

I'm hearing what she is saying, and then I'm ASKING if she has thought of X or Y. At no point have I said "this is the right / wrong thing to do" (unlike many others) or blamed the OP for her situation I've just asked some questions instead of nodding along in blind complicity. I'm afraid my writing style is a product of my job - the lawyer in me has been conditioned to write for clarity and coherence and I'll never be able to be the type to write [[HUGS]] to internet strangers but I wouldn't be wasting my time posting on here if I wasn't genuinely concerned for the OP and her family.

Honestly I really wonder if some of you even speak english. Saying "you're mental so you can't make decisions" is completely different from saying "perhaps you should consider the wisdom of making major life decisions when in the grip of depression and emotional turmoil". For god's sake I even illustrated my point by referencing my own lack of clarity of vision when I was suffering from PND myself. How the hell is that belittling?!

Fair enough.
I will apologise for my rudeness actually....it was a kneejerk reaction, owing to the fact that I know this OP personally.

I don't think you're talking complete bollocks....but I do think you must appreciate that some of your type of advice could be damaging to those victims of abuse out there who have spent a long time being told that they have brought the piss poor treatment they are receiving on themselves, and who are having a bloody hard time coming round to the fact that they haven't.

What if that depression is a direct result of a shit abusive marriage?

I quite understand pictich, btw did you see my comment on m&j?

Ionysis, you might well be just asking some questions but the way you have gone about it seems to be a very confrontational way. By the time someone plucks up the courage to post about their situation on an Internet forum they will usually have been experiencing it for some time and will usually have come to the conclusion themselves that something isn't quite right.

Which is where the advice to contact women's aids comes in - because they can be objective and they are the experts. WA will tell people if they don't think that there is abuse and will offer alternative avenues of support.

Aha! MrsPnut I've just worked who you are! Should've known.

So glad you are posting on this thread.

Yours was a wonderfully appeasing post, foth - thought I'm a bit confused about what led you to think ionysis has helpful motives for posting as s/he has.

All posts by this member are dictatorial in nature, right across the forum, though s/he manages to display more humour in some areas than here.
? On this thread, Ionysis belittles Sweep's own perception of Sweep's life and discounts her feelings.
? She devalues all other responses as irrational and personally motivated.
? She states that other posters' experience is worthless - she says others' experiences have embittered them and clouded their judgement. She also engaged in name-calling with the stuff about random strangers, etc.
? Yet she puts her own experience forward as supporting evidence for her viewpoint ... Irrational, surely, when she sees everyone else's experience as worthless? Twisting the conversation.
? She chooses to ignore points put to her in reply, preferring instead to repeat variations on "I'm right and you're wrong!" ~ Shouting down; repetition.
? Yet she insists her own points are irrefutable, even when queried.
? She engages in hairsplitting and derailing, for example by posting repetitively about definitions of abuse when that has never been in question.
? She displays lack of empathy and is overbearing, telling you how you should feel/think.
? She refuses to accept criticism: her view is the only right one.
? She demands sacrifice from Sweep, who's already sacrificed plenty.

... and it goes on. It really does go on.

I nearly left my husband when I confided his behaviour to others. Everyone jumped on the "leave the bastard" bandwagon. Everyone. Because that is what society is conditioned to advise now - women will no longer tolerate the abuse and victimisation that they were expected to put up with historically. And that is a GOOD THING.

BUT if I'd gone along with all those well-meaning but ultimately misguided friends I would have missed out on 2 DDs and a very happy and loving marriage.

Perhaps the best thing for the OP and her kids IS to leave. But someone ought to be able to stand against the current and ASK "what if...". It's entirely HER choice what she does but just because everyone else takes one POV doesn't mean there isn't any other solution.

garlicbeathzombie - please provide quotes as evidence of your accusations wthout them they are completely unfounded.

Oh, I see I've missed another instance of telling you you're mentally ill.

Meanwhile denying responsibility (on OP's H's behalf) for any mental distress that was caused by his actions & inactions towards her.

I honestly don't see, ionysis, why you find a husband who controls his wife's phone calls worthy of continued self-subjugation and sacrifice by OP.

I don't particulalry want to hear it, either

I'm not interested in persuading you, ionysis! I don't need to provide evidence; it's all in your posts. Others will find it. You, clearly, never will because you consider yourself unassailable.

Am I an inferior creature compared to you?

someone ought to ... stand against the current and ASK "what if..."

It needs to be pointed out, again, how insulting this is to Sweep.

Do you really think a competent, capable woman with three children has NOT asked herself this, over and over again?

No. You don't, do you. So why say it.

Gbz, what is it you're hoping for? That ionysis should pack her bags and leave, and that anyone posting a kind word in her direction should hang their head in shame?

This is a discussion forum. People post their thoughts. We agree, we disagree, and we all move on.

I really hope that you have managed to turn your marriage around ionysis, but the sad fact is many men who behave in an abusive way do so because they feel that this is their right and they have no interest in changing anything.

Often things are much smoother when the person being abused is at their most obedient, as illustrated by OP saying that things are good when she does as she is told. That is no basis for a partnership though.

Gbz, what is it you're hoping for?

I've already said, I'm only bothering to reply in detail because of the many readers who will find this thread while looking for perspective on their own problems.

I don't want them so see a stream of belittling balderdash that could send them scurrying back into their shells. I can't prevent that, but I can post refutations.

I've expressed my views and explained my rationale when asked to do so. I don't think protracted wrangling further derailing the OPs thread will add anything postive or valuable for her, do you?

Hi, yes, I was appeasing...default position that has got me into ( and now out of) my own abusive relationship...I think what I was (am) trying to do was to reduce the antagonism down from fever-pitch so sweepitundertherug might find the courage to read/post again.

In am TOTALLY grateful for the help and support that MNers have given me whist finding my way through the mess of an abusive relationship

...but if I'd ended up on a thread that was as angry as this one I'd never have stayed...what I really would like is for the OP to get her thread back and for aggressive and directive and unsupportive posters to respect her and her story without investing so much of themselves in it IYKWIM??

Bring back the gentleness and warmth of LISTENING to her...it's her story and we should be respecting her interpretation IMO.

You only have to read the thread to see who sounds non-confrontational and who doesn't!!!!!!

sweep hope you will find a place to speak with your voice and the supportive group who have helped me will give you resources and encouragement to make your own decisions in your own time.

Whatever happens remember that you are worth cherishing, loving and respecting by your family, friends and posters!!!!

No need to apologise Pictish. You clearly care about the OP very much. Its completely natural for you to be protective of her.

Yes, I am. I realise I knee jerked on here, and I regret doing so. It doesn't help and isn't useful.