name changer with relationship problem

[sweepitundertherug]

Sorry if this is jumbled, I can think it all in my head, but getting it into words is harder!
My husband is odd with money. This is the crux of the problems. He wouldn't see that there are any problems. As far as he's concerned he pays "housekeeping" into the joint account & if I ask he'll put some more in there. He KNOWS I hate asking for money & I budget really well. Recently he put up the "housekeeping" by £50 a month. I am very aware that I don't may the mortgage/bills btw & aware we have no debts. So I am lucky in that respect.
On the money he gives I pay for everything for the 5 of us. I am quite frugal and I am not bothered by material things so in a way he doesn't realise how much real life costs. The last few months I've had heavy spends but I needed 2 full sets of uniform from scratch, 2 of the children had growth spurts & all 3 needed winter coats.
Due to new schools I have the extra expenses of school lunches daily, bus fares & extra diesel costs.
I don't have any money for me really. My clothes are tatty.
I really felt this on the weekend. We all went shopping. I got the children their winter clothes & a few bits of underwear they needed. DH spent over £200 on 2 jumpers & 2 shirts. He does his clothes from his own money btw.
I don't have enough money in my budget for anything for me.
On the drive there, DH was saying about the spending & then pointed out that my weekend away in July has been really expensive. It was £200 for me & the 3 kids. He was away with work & if he'd been around then he could have had the kids & I could have stayed with friends. As it is, I never ever do anything as I can't arrange anything due to his job & his travelling. Not to mention weekends taken up with sport when he is around. So this one time, I thought sod it, I'm going. I don't think he really liked that anyway but ffs, this weekend he's off ABROAD for a football game. Going early Sun & back late Weds. Also he's managed to arrange something without his work getting in the way.

Now, dh isn't stingy. It's hard to describe him really. If the kids need clothes, they get them & he wouldn't have me buying the clothes from cheap shops. Their clothes mainly come from Next, M&S or Debenhams. His clothes are labels with the odd basics from M&S/Debenhams.

He gave me £500 earlier in April. It's gone. Basically got some clothes for summer, jeans as all mine were wearing thin & got some creams/make up. Also if I went for lunch or something.

He earns a very good wage. But he can't wait for me to go back to work. I don't work now after having No3 as childcare would have wiped me out. I paid for childcare for the other 2 in the holidays. He says we will afford much more when I'm working. I was earning about £600pm. OK better than nothing but hardly pays the mortgage! He basically saved while I was working. He can still afford to save now btw. He is OBSESSED with saving. I appreciate he wants to save for university/old age but tbh it's at the expense of having a life now. Well, if I'm honest, it's only me that doesn't have a life. He does, he goes to football games etc...I feel bad "wanting" money as I'm taking away from my kids future.

To go back to the very start of our relationship, it was equal, we were both working & when we got the house we split the bills equally percentage wise from our wages. Then we moved abroad for his work. How naive (sp) I was. We didn't have a penny when we went over. We basically saved. All his salary when I worked & when I wasn't then we spent as little as possible. No joint accounts either. Stupidly.

We didn't have a joint account till I stopped work after dc3. I thought it would be a proper joint account but it's just an account he pays money in for me that he can keep an eye on.

Occasionally he gets voucher bonuses from work. He'll give me half but give me less housekeeping. This really annoys me but he can't see anything wrong with it.

He is hard to talk to as he has the knack of making me feel a bit stupid.

Our relationship is fine so long as I don't bring up the money issues. I did a few months ago & he said "oh you'd have us living out our older years in a council house" I was furious & really upset about that & then he claimed he was joking. I grew up in a council house btw.

I don't have expensive tastes at all. Labels mean nothing to me. I am a frugal cook. I got a sack of spuds on the weekend for £5.50. You know, I watch the pennies.

I keep all this buried & most of the time I am "happy". I feel jealous though after the weeekend. Childish I know but my kids & dh look fine & have lovely clothes. Mine get tatty & just get replaced when I can justify it.

I am sorry this is so long. I have to get this off my chest. My chest is really tight today.

Thank you for reading. Much appreciated.

"How fucking dare you imply that the abuse is not real because she may have suffered mental health problems?"

Your reading comprehension clearly needs improvement. I said no one on here knows if she is suffering ABUSE or just assholish behaviour - there is a big difference and we do not know the OP at all - only what she has posted here. I asked her to consider whether she was in the right frame of mind to be able to view her situation and her options clearly. When I was suffering from post natal depression I was absolutely NOT able to see the wood for the trees and it would have been the worst idea in the world for me to have made significant life changes while in that state.

Ok, Alpine, are you talking to me, Ion who?

Parsley, of course I wasnt talking to you.

Ion, normally I pull faces when the poster is told to leave. But this man has been systematically abusive to this woman for years. You made a very nasty comment about her mental health.

Sorry Alpine hadn't seen this....

Ion certainly under Safeguarding guidlines, the OP is suffering financial abuse, not just arse behaviour. Not saying he can't address it. If HE wants to.

Do not mean that OP requires any form of Safeguarding btw.

No problem, id just hate it if op were to log on and see that a stranger thinks her husband is just under street and so she's blowing out of proportion because she's 'mental'. It takes a lot of self-belief to actually leave when your confidence is at rock bottom.

I gets yer Alpine but at the same time, when I had bad PND I kicked my husband out....I did have it out of proportion, but there were problems. Maybe that is what Ion is getting at, but realise this is not the OP's case.

Tbh I'd be homicidal rather than depressed if my husband earned 100k and he wouldn't let me have a tenner to spend on a sodding lipstick! ;)

When I lived in the WA safe house I don't remember one single woman there who wasn't depressed. Being shat upon by the one person who's supposed to be there for you no matter what does not tend to make for doris day like cheer!

I agree Alpine. I worked in a refuge. Would say that its the first step to NOT being depressed. Lose 12 stone of ugly fat by kicking him to the kerb...

Do you really think that for the OP to end up living in a bedsit with existing and now exacerbated depression, on benefits with little access to her kids because she can't accomodate them is the recommended option before she has even TRIED all avenues for mending their marriage?

If her husband IS the deliberately manupulative, financially and emotionally abusive asshole you seem to think (based on a handful of posts), on his salary he could easily afford to hire a nanny, the best lawyers and make a case for the OPs unfitness as custodial parent for "walking out" and diminished mental and emotional health - even if these things WERE caused by him.

On the other hand, if her husband is not Satan incarnate and instead is suffering from his own issues, whether with the marriage or other things in life, which are making him behave like a bastard then perhaps they can both get to the bottom of their problems and start building each other up instead of tearing each other down.

Sometimes negative behaviours become self-feeding. You start speaking disrespectfully to someone because you're bitter, resentful and angry about things and eventually it becomes such a habit that you're doing it all the time without even realising how cruel and hurtful and twisted it is. My mother was like that to my father for years because of her (justifiable) resentment and inability to forgive. They are still happily married now (45 years next year)because they worked through it.

There were obviously issues in the marriage if there has been past infidelity. Perhaps those were not fully resolved at the time.

Just shouting "abuse" based on very limited information from an OP who is clearly emotionally exhausted, distraught, vulnerable and at her lowest ebb is pre-emptive in my opinion. You have only one side of the story. People should be encouraging the OP to delve into the reasons for this horrible situation, to try to look at things objectively, to try to get help and emotional support to make her strong enough to be able to see things clearly and make decisions based on logic and careful thought rather than driven by emotional crisis.

Surely it is worth the OP at least trying to find ways to get her and her husband back to working as a team instead of acting as enemies in a war, encouraging deciet, drama and ultimatums. There is at least as much value in advising the OP on trying to resolve and fix their relationship as just saying "Oh he's evil and abusive you must get out now".

ionysis
Am not depressed at the moment. He is very happy.

Am not in the mood to talk more at the moment.

Oh, ionysis my marriage vows mean loads to me, hence me sticking it out this long. I am a bit suspicious of you tbh.

Well on Friday you wrote:

"I am so depressed. I need to up my dosage but can't see the gp till after half term now."

By upping your doseage I assume you mean you are on medication for depression, no?

You also posted about self-harming which indicates you are in a very low state emotionally:

^"So I went up to the bathroom, had a cry & slashed at the top of my legs with the tweezers. He's made me feel so shit.

I want to leave. I suddenly though, get money on the weekend as he gets paid. Could the following week. Then I realised, it's half term & he's off.

I will never escape. Never.

I am so depressed about this."^

Now you say you are not depressed.

I don't know why you would be "suspicious" of someone giving you a different perspective. Or are you just looking for validation?

How do you know your husband is happy? Have you asked him? You say here:

"He keeps telling me I am ambivalent. He says he knows I love him. I show him by everything I do but I don't show I love him enough. I don't know what he means. I have asked him to explain. But he just tells me he is not critisising me. But he has been telling me this for weeks."

Sounds to me like he has tried talking to you (persistently) about how he feels but seems completely inept (like many men are). He feels your distance from him and his responses and behaviour must be linked in many ways.

I work full time and my husband is a SAHD. I can relate to the "saving" thing. As the person who is fully responsible for paying all bills, managing our money and also planning for our family's future there is HUGE pressure and worry associated with that.

I worry ALL the time about paying for children's education, saving enough for retirement, managing mortgages, what to do about my elderly parents, how to cover 4 new tires for the car and pay for the plumber on our leaky house etc. And I earn more than your husband does. Sometimes I get annoyed with my husband when he mentions new shirts, golf etc. because I keep thinking "it's OK for you, you aren't trying to balance the books every month - every penny that goes out of this house I have to try to replace or account for". I know that is unreasonable but its inevitable because we are only human and we stress about things.

Your husband is not "saving" for himself but to provide for you all as a family, especially his kids. He probably doesn't even notice that he has spent more money on himself than on you - its easy to fall into this sense of complacency and lose perspective. That's why partners need to TALK about their resentments. There are two sides to every story.

I tend to get very narky and unreasonable with my H when we haven't been intimate for a while. If I feel he has been neglecting me or my needs. And the longer it goes on the more rejected and bitter I feel. Fortunately we discuss things and always straighten it out but it didn't used to be that way. As an example - after my first pregnancy we didn't make love in ages and I got progressively more mean and bitchy to him (in quite subtle non-confrontational ways - like your husband) because at the back of my mind I was hating that I felt "unwanted" and hated him because of it. Of course once we were both able to talk about it (got a babysitter, had some time on our own) we got to the bottom of things and everything improved immeasurably.

What I am saying is, no one on here has asked what HIS perspective is. Have you?

I think you are concerned about sweep ion...but she has a lot on her plate, and I think maybe we should let her have some time to think and stuff.

I was just responding to the points she raised in her post - she is under no duress to reply!

Mnn, am depressed about this & am on 10mg of citalopram as am reducing dose. He is the reason I'm on them.

If her husband IS the deliberately manupulative, financially and emotionally abusive asshole you seem to think (based on a handful of posts) - ionysis, did you intend to query OP's perception of her own life and dismiss her feelings?

he could easily afford to ... make a case for the OPs unfitness as custodial parent - Did you intend to sound threatening and to imply OP is an unfit parent?

trying to find ways to get her and her husband back to working as a team - There has never been a suggestion that they did work as a team. OP has always been under his control.

are you just looking for validation? - Do you have any particular reason for denying a poster validation on her own problem thread?

I've liked your contributions on othr threads, ionysis, but you are either out of your depth in a discussion of financial & psychological abuse, or have your own agenda to pursue. I wonder whether sweep's relationship in any way resembles yours? This sometimes happens on abuse threads, where respondents feel driven to justify their own choices by advising the OP to put up with ill-treatment.

I have not dismissed her feelings at all. Her husband is certainly behaving unreasonably but there IS a difference betwen unreasonable behaviour and abusive behaviour. The latter is characterised by deliberate and premeditated manipulation and a self-aware aim to control. I'm not convinced from what has been posted that that IS what her husband is doing. It is impossible to say this from a few posts on an internet message board written while being egged on by people who are determined to characterise the OP as a victim - how does that help her?

I have clearly stated that the OP should seek emotional support IRL from people who know her and her husband and also that she ought to seek therapy. This is a FAR more reasonable way for her to determine whether her relationship is actually abusive than taking the word of a bunch of unqualified random stangers she has never even met.

The OP did not intially even consider her situation to BE abusive untill a number of responders on here conviced her that it was so. Those same people appear determined to quash any suggestion to the contrary or indeed any suggestion that the OP may want to consider doing ANYTHING other than leave.

Advising a clearly vulnerable and emotionally distressed woman to take such a drastic step, especially when there are small children involved is, in my opinion extremely irresponsible when you are not in possession of all the facts and without highlighting the potential negative consequences which could arise - as I have attempted to do by pointing out that he COULD make her life very very unpleasant IF he is an actual abuser and as bad as he comes across in this thread. Should we just be telling her that her life will be all roses and kittens once she leaves and not look at the other side? In reality her circumstances could be markedly WORSE if she lives - at least in the shrt term. Se needs to evaluate the situation properly.

The only exception I would see to this is if I belived from the posts that the OP (or her children) was in immediate danger from remaining in her current circumsances. That is not the case here.

My relationship, if you read my posts is completely different to the OPs. I would actually suggest though almos the oposite point to the one you make - that people who have had the misfortune to suffer in abusive relationships - or who see them through their work or social experience - tend to see an "abuser" round every corner and extrapolate any assholish behaviour into absive behaviour because that is paralel to their own experiences. That is quite understandable as women who have escaped abusive relationships, thank god, would do anything to help someone else they thought may be in the same circumstances.

All I am saing is that the OP should have a varied perspective on her situation and be able to try to assess it from diferent angles. Having a baing pack repeatedly insist that she is being abused and victimised and her only hope is to leave her mariage and break up her family is not actualy helpful or constructive. People should be giving advice which enables the OP to gain strength, see all sides ofthe issues and try to think of ALL the possible solutions to her problems so she can determine the best one for her and her family.

To answer yur oint on validation: One of the best things about a forum is that different posters varying views challenge the views of the OP to enable them to question themselves and determine whether or not their perceptions are reasonable and valid and gie them new ways to look at things which they can sometimes be to close to see clearly themselves.

Surely EA is not always consciously intentional, though? It arises naturally from the beliefs and values of the abuser, who thinks he (or she) is right? Everything follows from that.

Why do you think the websites of charities set up to assist people in abusive relationships always have a page entitled "Am I being abused?"

If you really don't understand that abuse trains its victims to accept it as normal and even inevitable, then you don't understand the first thing about it. That's great for you as you seem never to have encountered it. In consequence, though, you seem to be blissfully unaware of how belittling your comments are. In the case of this particular OP, you're causing her to doubt herself and thus strengthening her controller's position.

Nobody would end a relationship based entirely on a forum response unless the response confirmed what she already suspected. As advised by others, sweep has called Womens Aid and is gaining needed support from them. Perhaps you also consider them biased and alarmist?

I can't see why you fell so strongly driven to argue against the consensus of this thread. I am going to remind you it's someone else's thread. If you'd like to explore your issues with the "bunch of unqualified random strangers" here, perhaps you would start your own.

I missed out the blazingly obvious point that, if you perceive Sweep as such a mindless wimp as to end her relationship purely because we said so, you are once again insulting her qquite outrageously.

Ionsis

Does this not resonate with you?

^really felt this on the weekend. We all went shopping. I got the children their winter clothes & a few bits of underwear they needed. DH spent over £200 on 2 jumpers & 2 shirts. He does his clothes from his own money btw.
I don't have enough money in my budget for anything for me.^

Is this not financial abuse?

this poor girl is really asking, begging, for help - and you just 'dis' her! Just why?!!!

Have you not seen the two threads recently - these two girls have escaped - (hopefully) probably with their lives and you actually question, actually question all these lovely ladies' motives???????

i just think that you need to look at your motives...................... for posting like this

Think on girl!

Definition of abuse for you:
"To abuse within a relationship is to take direct, thoughtful, deliberate actions to destabilize the internal awareness or belief in self of others."

While the EFFECTS of general assholishness can be the same as abuse, to label someone as abusive the intent must be present. There are far more individuals who are merely selfish, ignorant, blinkered, emotionally stunted, misguided etc. than there are abusers.

Where have I "dissed" her (are we on Jerrry Spinger here?!)

As I said I think her husband's behaviour is unreasonable, there is no justifying that. That is not to say it cannot be altered if he is gven the chance to do so. He is not being given that oppotnity because the OP isn't actually communicating with him.

But clearly any viewpoint here aside from "leave the monster" is unacceptable regardless of how rationally expressed it may be.

I hope everyone here is satisfied with their conscience that they are advising a woman to break up her family and deprive her children of the chance of an unbroken home without first persuing every other available avenue for rectfiying the issues in her marriage.

sweepitundertherug Fri 07-Oct-11 16:34:16
BruciesDollyDealer if it was that easy to talk to him, then I would.
I have tried talking to him. I get from him that I am too sensitive, imagining it, he is joking or the best one is he can't ever say anything to me as it's like walking on egg shells.

Ionysis, you are claiming that it isn't abuse, that OP has misunderstood and doesn't know how to talk to her own husband, that's she's a bit thick (enough to divorce him on our say-so alone) and that she's weak.

You sound like an abuser.

Yes obviously anyone who might express a different opinion must clearly be abusive