Am I abusive?

[amiabusive]

DP has said I am.
I think I am not very nice. Don't know what to do about it. Think maybe I shouldn't have relationships at all, but too late now as I have 2 dcs so at least have to be their mother whatever happens and that is a relationship.

dc1 is 2, dc2 is 5 months. I am shattered, bfing all night and busy all day, you know how it is. DP can be very casual about my time and energy sometimes and I get snappy. I mean he just expects me to do things that most women probably do but I think, for instance, when we are all out, "why are you asking me where the wipes are:? and when I tell you, why can you never find them? Why would it be such a FUCKING DISASTER if I get 5 minutes doing nothing in a cafe? Why do I always have to be arse in the air rummaging for something for you?" anyway as you can see I am angry or something, I don't know, and although I try not to let it out I keep failing.

DP is nice really, relatively, but I feel ... I don't know.

I am being treated for PND but it isn't helping and it is just another thing that can be used to discredit me.

Anyway. When I am feeling self-pitying I think: well I gave birth, my body is obliterated, I am knackered, I am breastfeeding day and night, I am actually pretty fukcing desperate with misery a lot of the time, just back off and cut me some slack, if you can't actually help me could you moan a little less about how I am not sunshine and light. When I am being more self critical I hear what he is saying about my temper and think he is right, I am nasty and mood swingy, but manage to put a bright face on for others, I am being abusive.

Sometimes it seems like either way we have to break up, either because I am abusive or because I am being constantly criticised and accused of abuse while miserable, and that is no way to live.
Sometimes it seems like it would be crazy to break up over a tiny thing like he thinks I am a piece of shit.
Actually I think I am a piece of shit.

Anyway sorry about long post. Just to be concise at the end:

how do you know if you are abusive?
If you are what can you do?

You need a break. From childcare, with sleep and TLC. At least a week. Then re-assess.

how does he say you are being abusive exactly?

You are not being abusive! You have PND and are knackered. OH needs a reality check, you are suffering and he should support you not think badly of you. Having young children can be really hard work, smiling through gritted teeth is normal IME.

Abusive to who - him? I'd show him abusive tbh. Lack of sleep does terrible things to a person. And his job is to support you til that stage passes - and it will, and yes, that is a horrible horrible job for him, but it's still his job!

You sound so down on yourself. You need to break the cycle. Maybe try explaining to him that you are utterly shattered and have nothing left to give. Express some milk and ask him to do a night with the baby. (and sleep in the spare room with earplugs).

As an aside, have you mastered feeding lying down. It possibly saved my life and the life of many people at the receiving end of my gradual unravelling feeling during that first year.

I know this doesnt always go down too well, but can you express milk so that you can bottle feed, or just switch to formula. You need to regain your health, and being constantly knackered is no way to do it. I know it might not be what you want, but it could be what you need so that your body can have a rest, and your husband can take over some of the feeds.

You dont sound abusive, you sound utterly bloody exhausted. And you have PND, which will get better, but not overnight..

I agree with squeakytoy. I wish I hadn't persevered with the breastfeeding when my health started to slide. You sound exhausted and you are depressed. Small wonder you are short tempered. My fantasy for a year was of checking into a hotel and sleeping for 12 hours straight, ordering steak and wine on room service, bathing and then sleeping for another 8 hours. I finally did do that, left dh with the ds and formula and took off to the nearest Hilton (other branded hotels are available ) and it was bliss.

It's a start. You need to carve out as much time for yourself/rest as you can. You have had two kids quickly, don't underestimate the feat that is!

if you didn't have any children right now, full night's sleep every night, would you be 'abusive'?!? would you have to split up if you were not totally exhausted and had plenty of good quality time to spend together working on your relationship every day?

lay it on the line for him: you have just grown a fully formed human being for 9months, gone through __hours delivering it, 5months providing everything it needs mentally and physically 24/7, while looking after a 2yr old at the same time and making sure you are in a decent state to look after both of them! you are exhausted, you spend all day putting your kids first and unfortunately have very little left in reserve to share between you and him. you deserve a medal, he deserves a wake up call.

That came out all wrong. Not saying I think you should give up bf, just that you might feel benefit of finding other ways of buying some time for yourself. Expressing, formula, anything that gets you some you time.

I do know what you mean though. I remember the feeling of being pulled in a hundred directions, none of them mine.

Thank you everyone. Very tearful now

A few things:

How can I tell him how I feel? Is there a website like breastfeedingisknackering.com that I could send him to or something? he seems to think it is just like taking a piss, just a fluid that comes out of you. If I try to express at lunchtime I struggle to stand up for the rest of the day. Is there some 3rd party believable thing that I could make him read that says this is just what happens, you get knackered if you bf? (and very hungry.... )

FYI I am horrible actually lots of people think so and I am regretting a bit having kids because I feel sorry for them that I am their mum when I am so crap with people.

How does he say I am abusive? He just says that. He says there is a book called Walking On Eggshells and he feels like that round me.

I wish I had never started this.

He will try to take them away from me. I can't bear it, they are mine, they used to live inside my body.

Why do you think he will try to take the kids away from you? Has he said as much?

It could be the depression making you feel his resentment more keenly. I must say though, he sounds like he needs a reality check. Bf, and having two kids under 2 is bloody hard, how can he not know how much work this is? The benefit of introducing formula, part of the time at least, is you could leave him with sole care for a night or two to let him see just what is involved. And even then, he wouldn't be coming at it from an exhausted body that's been pregnant and delivered twice, never mind bf.

You don't sound horrible to me! I recognise a lot of what you are saying about snapping at DH - I did that a lot after DD was born. But he understood it was just the hormones/exhaustion/illness talking and supported me' whatever.

I suspect your DH might also be short tempered etc. due to stress and you are taking it out on each other. Telling a depressed and exhausted woman she is abusive sounds like abuse to me' so don't listen to him ! If you can talk, talk. If not, just try and weather the storm for a bit but don't make life changing decisions at this point.

When you BF you use a lot of extra calories. It's something like 500 a day. So make sure you are eating well.

Hope it all gets better for you soon.

When do you get time off? My dh never really thought about it. He just thought that when he got home from work, he deserved a rest as he'd been working (and only mornings!!). It never occurred to me that he didn't realise that I didn't get away from work at all, ever, it just went on and on and on. He thought all I did was play with the baby. Then one day I just left him to it, and went to the cafe and had a coffee without dd, because dh was home so he could see to everything. Boy, was he frazzled when I got home!

As for rummaging, put all baby stuff in a separate bag when you go out. When he wants the wipes, they're in the bag. He can't find them? They're in the bag. You don't need to find them for him, he's a grown up and can look in the bag. Get up and go to the loo or something, he'll find them.

I don't think you are being abusive because you are so tired and sleep-deprived.

However it doesn't give you license to mean alot of the times to your DP either so that he has to be walking on eggshells around you.

You need to turn down your horrible attitude a notch or two, too. At the same time, he needs to be more understanding and spend time learning where things are so he can be much more helpful. Its disgraceful that he doesn't know where the baby wipes are.

Lastly, maybe you should take the advice of here of supplementing with formula and spending a night away from the kids and your DP.

Ami, who are all these people who think you're horrible? Have they told you why?

Personally I think he's done a good job on you

You are tired. You have PND. This is not a happy combination. Your OH sounds like an insensitive, entitled prick. Does that help?

You also have very low self-esteem and are not being supported adequately. Yes, you might be moody and short-tempered but what a surprise!
If your PND isn't being addressed successfully you need to go back to the doc and get it sorted.

If bf'ing really feels too much for you (probably because you're not getting any help with the older DC) then you may have to consider stopping and get some sleep.

You could also do with some counselling to address your self-esteem issues - and then when you realise that you are a good person, with fine mothering skills, you may decide that your DP isn't so crash hot himself!
He has contributed to your situation by his whinging and lack of help - he can bloody well take some responsibility for stuff - and if he can't, then consider telling him to go forth and multiply elsewhere.

You are on a very short fuse and feeling higly resentful and put-upon - you need to take charge of this situation yourself and sort it out because it doesn't sound as though anyone else is going to help you. :(

Yes, where are all these people?

A friend of ours was being emotionally abused by her alcoholic dh. Luckily, she told me that he had said everyone hated her, including me and dh, so I could tell her straight away what a load of bollocks that was. Lo and behold, it turned out that no one else she knew hated her either, none of us thought she was mad, dangerous and needed to be certified, though some of us thought that applied quite well to him.

You don't sound abusive to me. IME abusive people don't admit that they are abusive, or even ask the question.

You do, however, sound exhausted and in need of support from your husband. Which, frankly, is why he's there.

I'm a bit concerned that you think your P is nice, sometimes, but there's something niggling that you can't put your finger on.

He's told you that you are abusive
he doesn't seem to see the stress and exhaustion you are suffering and certainly isn't supporting you through it (but criticises you instead)
you think that lots of people think you are horrible (like the others have said, where does this come from? Has he told you this?)
and for some reason that you haven't told us you believe that he will take the children away from you.

How long have you felt this way about him? Was any of this a problem before you had kids?

things that you are:
depressed
tired
overworked

things that you might be:
abusive

work on the definites first and the might bes will be more easily assessed and dealt with.
Sometimes all you need is to learn how to express your needs more clearly but that is unlikely to happen when you are dropping with exhaustion.

Get some rest and take care of yourself. You have been through a great deal and are still breastfeeding

OP, you are doing really well, and i have been there, with the anger based on the exhaustion and literally having nothing left.

My sole DS is 11 months old. I stopped breastfeeding at 5 months (i had been mixed feeding anyway with formula, as i had very little milk from the start.) - point i am making is a bottle of formula will not hurt your 5mo and give you a break.

i had to go to counselling and it just helped having a space for me, where i could talk and be heard. i have also been seeing a homeopath who has prescribed some granules, which have helped drag me out of this endless cycle.

If you have a friend or family to take the Dcs for a night so you can have a break and get some perspective.

Also, I loved this book www.amazon.co.uk/What-Mothers-Do-Especially-Nothing/dp/074992490X

Recommended by another MNer. It had me in tears sometimes, where the sheer relentless of being a mum was recognised, and it also gives you the language to explain what it is you do all day long, so you can try and explain it to your DH.

good luck

Tiredness makes you furious. You're not yourself.

It is your DP's gift to change this, by doing more to help you. He is being "abusive", if we're bandying that term about, by allowing you to work until you're beside yourself and refusing to believe breastfeeding is tiring

He wants to read on the internet that breastfeeding is tiring

BREASTFEEDING IS TIRING.

It uses up 500 calories a day. Not to mention the broken sleep.

I pointed out to my DH during a row once that it was easier for him to sit back, let me do everything and put up with me exploding at him once a fortnight, and then blame me, than to share it all. He looked a bit shocked, and things got a lot better.

I don't think you should give up BF if you don't want to, but you should get help with other stuff to compensate.

sorry - it is in your DP's gift

breastfeeding is exhausting - bfing mums are advised not to do any strenuoys excercise for the first 6months and eat an extra 300calories a day. if he thinks he knows how it feels to produce enough milk a rapidly growing baby needs every day then tell him, explicitly if needed, that he has no idea. comparing a fluid that a growing baby needs to a your body's waste products is rediculous. i have been advised on more than one occassion by a gp and hv to use formula because bf is exhausting but for various reasons i stuck with it as expressing, formula and bottles were more exhausting for me. you are nearly at the weaning age and although it will still take a few weeks, your baby will go longer between feeds and drop a little bit of the amount of milk it needs a day.

do you get a break every few days? or at least once a week? if not, why not?? i have just been through a very similar situation and ended up phoning the hv in tears because i felt and said what you have written. i was/am horrible to anyone close to me. i was not like this before i had kids so i know it's just the exhaustion taking over. the advice and answer - have regular time to yourself, have a break. your children are well looked after, you are doing a great job.

there are so many, many women going through exactly what you are. it's totally normal and understandable, if you haven't already then read:
this thread

Sounds like he's doing FA to help tbh. He can see you're on your last legs and isn't helping. No wonder you get annoyed when he can't even find the baby wipes when you've told him where they are.

OK my take on this (sorry if I'm out of line but this is from personal experience)

He can find them, he just doesn't think he should have to.

He can then use you getting understandably pissed off and put upon to claim victim status and that he is walking on eggshells.

apply that to everything.. and yes I bet it is him that's told you you're horrible to everyone.. x

Have you considered not breast feeding so that your partner can take care of some of the feeds? You clearly need time to yourself and it is hard to get that when you breast feed. Breast is best for the first six months but there is nothing to stop you changing to forumla after that.

Op you have pnd

It is not an excuse to your behaviour, it IS THE REASON for your behaviour

What are you doing to treat pnd? Are you on ads?

Once you find suitable treatment for pnd you will feel so much better, like your old self.

And sleep depravation is like being in hell everyday

Please dont think bad of yourself you have an illness.

Please recommend your Dh to research pnd on his own time and to give you space to rest. Take the baby off you whilst you sleep, let you gave a lie in in the morning. Take the kids to the park whilst you nap

Show your Dh this thread

Please communicate to him as much as you can or he won't get it