Am I abusive?

[amiabusive]

DP has said I am.
I think I am not very nice. Don't know what to do about it. Think maybe I shouldn't have relationships at all, but too late now as I have 2 dcs so at least have to be their mother whatever happens and that is a relationship.

dc1 is 2, dc2 is 5 months. I am shattered, bfing all night and busy all day, you know how it is. DP can be very casual about my time and energy sometimes and I get snappy. I mean he just expects me to do things that most women probably do but I think, for instance, when we are all out, "why are you asking me where the wipes are:? and when I tell you, why can you never find them? Why would it be such a FUCKING DISASTER if I get 5 minutes doing nothing in a cafe? Why do I always have to be arse in the air rummaging for something for you?" anyway as you can see I am angry or something, I don't know, and although I try not to let it out I keep failing.

DP is nice really, relatively, but I feel ... I don't know.

I am being treated for PND but it isn't helping and it is just another thing that can be used to discredit me.

Anyway. When I am feeling self-pitying I think: well I gave birth, my body is obliterated, I am knackered, I am breastfeeding day and night, I am actually pretty fukcing desperate with misery a lot of the time, just back off and cut me some slack, if you can't actually help me could you moan a little less about how I am not sunshine and light. When I am being more self critical I hear what he is saying about my temper and think he is right, I am nasty and mood swingy, but manage to put a bright face on for others, I am being abusive.

Sometimes it seems like either way we have to break up, either because I am abusive or because I am being constantly criticised and accused of abuse while miserable, and that is no way to live.
Sometimes it seems like it would be crazy to break up over a tiny thing like he thinks I am a piece of shit.
Actually I think I am a piece of shit.

Anyway sorry about long post. Just to be concise at the end:

how do you know if you are abusive?
If you are what can you do?

You've got it bad haven't you? The catholic church and probably your family have installed all these "It's my fault" buttons into you and your husband is busy pressing them.

You need to talk to your kind friend who said the lovely things about you. She can probably tell how you're feeling and wants to help. Abusive women don't generally have fans, other women tend to avoid them.

Can I just say a huge thank you to everyone who has talked to me on this thread

I've just been reading another thread where a woman feels ashamed of her shouting. She's overwhelmed. Many of us are. It seems to me we've lost something essential along the way. Western mothers are not revered. But we are definitely criticised and judged. We all think and do dark things when exhausted. If we were more supported perhaps we wouldn't. Keep talking to us. xx

I understand how you feel and you are as most others have said not nasty just have given all you have to give. I have got to this stage with my elderly father who is just extremely demanding and very critical. I have often screamed ranted at him that I too have a life - when he just wants 'one more thing' from me. I am not abusive either just like you I think had my buttons pressed once too often and am exhausted. We all have our limits and then you get over-sensitised to the demands around you so even a very reasonable one (e.g. the other day my dad asked me if I could get him some milk the next day) sends you into meltdown ). You need to get your DH to take some pressure off you - I know its a different situation but I now get DH to drop off dads shopping sometimes so he cant wait behind the door for me with his 'list' of demands and complaints ( he wont do it to DH you see ).

What I found helped me the most was understanding why I felt like I did (and why my dad behaves like he does btw) by speaking to a health professional in a carers support group I joined. Somehow understanding why and that 'youre not going mad or just a horrible person' and that many other people in your situation feel the same is very comforting and helps you to feel more like taking steps to recovering from feeling/behaving like that . There is also a lot of practical advice from theses people to be had (obviously HVs etc in your case) and coping mechanisms. They really will have seen it before and know how to help get you back on track.

Good luck.

swearing and snapping is being abusive and not a very nice atmosphere for children to grow up in :(

You say you are getting help, do you think things are improving?

no it is not a nice atmosphere.
things might be improving, i don't know, it is very up and down. i think they are and then i have some awful setback.
yesterday was a very tired day, i started off exhausted, we had a lot to do, by lunchtime my legs were wobbling, by the end of the way i was losing it.
i keep seeing drs at the perinatal clinic but they don't do anything. they ask, are you going to mother and baby groups? like they are a magical cure all. i have friends, i have places to go, but dragging myself about is just a series of chores, i go to playgroup because dc1 likes them but it;s just another thing i have to do, why do they keep chirpily going on about them like they will make me better?

You need a rest. Your body is telling you to take a rest. Stop pushing yourself. Take a break with your baby and let your partner look after ds1.

Are you eating enough?

You are more tired than I'd expect at this point - I'd expect you to be at the point of wobbly legs at 5 weeks not 5 months. Do go back to the GP to see if you're anaemic or something.

for communication with your dh just focus on telling him how you feel physically at the moment and how you feel in response to things that are happening. so while you are grateful for the offer of a weekend away you would have a lot of work to do to prepare for it so it's almost counter productive. plus you would miss him and the kids while away!

i'm with you on turning down offers for help. i do all the childcare all day every day so as great as it is for others to look after the kids for me, i feel like i have to do double the workload to get everything ready for my time away. it's not easy to just pick up someone elses routine for a few hours, let alone a full day or weekend.

From a physical point of view have you had your blood levels checked for anaemia, on one of your posts you said that if you express at lunch time you are too tired to stand up. Just a thought because that would contribute to just how exhausted you are feeling.

Op darling, you have pnd, and Unfortunitly lots of GPs are useless at this illness.

Getting out to playgroups and talking to friends does not magically cure pnd.

Communication while depressed can become impossible and some men just don't get it and need everything spelled out to them.

My Dh is one of them

I have to give my Dh specific instructions on what needs doing because hes unsure and worried about getting it wrong.

If you can't speak to Dh about tasks how about writting him a list and leaving it in the kitchen it handing it to him?

OP,don't give yourself a hard time.Your body is telling you it needs more rest.Cut yourself some slack.Only do what's necessary.The more rest you get,the better you'll be able to cope.And your dc will benefit from having a mum whose not so worn out.

You can carry on feeding yet let the baby have formula now and then, surely? DD does this when I have meetings or have had a night out or two. Never changed my supply or her ability to feed or anything.

Maybe a thought for a weekend?

O sweetie.

I don't think you are being abusive, from what I've read here. I do think you are being snappy and sweary and - guess what - I don't blame you in the slightest. Most people with small babies are exhausted and snappy and sweary. You are simply not going to be Missis Lovely at the moment. Park that one. Cut yourself some slack.

And now, focus on what does seem to be wrong.

You don't have to be this capable uber-mother. You don't have to be the person who knows where the sodding wipes are. You've got shopping to do? He can do that. Or he can sort out a delivery order: he can put it online, a regular order that is delivered for you.

And as SGB says, saying 'well, go away for a weekend' is all very bloody well, but of course you can't express enough for the five month old. You will get engorged and quite probably get mastitis if you do. You know that. So it's a pointless offer.

And he can put with walking on fucking eggshells for a while, frankly. Or remove some of the fucking eggshells by actually being supportive. But that does mean you have to stop telling yourself you 'should' be doing all this stuff. You know you shouldn't. So don't!

OP I don't know much about PND, but I do know a LOT of women (incl me) who have felt this same anger in the first year of having babies. Its so easy to be ground down by the constant responsibility, being needed 24/7, not having even your own body to yourself. In drunken chats since having LOs, me and my friends have admitted all sorts of 'psycho' things we have done, stupid things we have blown our top over. However supported you are are by your partner, even the best relationships can suffer under the huge change and responsibility.

IMO nothing you have said makes you sound abusive. You just sound like someone at the end of their tether, and with the PND as well that must be so hard. My advice would be to take ANY opportunity you can for some time and space on your own - even if its just 30 mins to chill out in the bath. And don't be so hard on yourself, you haven't had a permanent personality change, you are just suffering from PND and from lack of sleep.

I just wanted to add my support to you, OP. I have been in exactly the same position as you, I could have written much of what you have written. You are not an abuser, just a woman at the end of her tether. Beneath the surface of many of those "together" seeming women at the mother and baby groups is a woman who feels exactly as you do, but who puts on a brave face for fear of being judged "mad" or "an unfit mother" or "unnatural" for not loving every minute of this or finding it comes easy.

In fact, I congratulate you for having the courage to post on here about your feelings. Without knowing it, you have probably given comfort to a lot of women feeling the same way as you but too afraid to speak out. They will know they are not alone.

As for the easy peasy breastfeeding notion your DP has. Tell the stupid idiot that your body uses a minimum of 500 calories per day producing the milk to keep your baby alive. That's roughly the equivalent of a 5 mile run, doing 10 minute miles and burning 100 calories per mile (fairly average rate for a female runner). That's running 5 miles every single day for months and months and months. Without being able to eat or sleep properly to allow your body to recover; let alone have a relaxing soak in the bath or chill out afterwards. Ask him if he thinks he could do that every day.

psychothreadkiller - love the 5 miles thing. I will definitely be using that.

OK we just went out for pizza, the 4 of us. I said "let's bring the bumbo for dc2". (I know dc2 can't support herself in the slightly basic high chairs in this place.) He said "no, I don't mind holding her on my lap." I don't know why, it's the easiest thing in the world to put the bumbo in a carrier bag and hook it on the pushchair, but he said that so I said ok because I don't want to be telling everyone what we are going to do all the time.

In the restaurant, the pizzas arrive, of course he can't cut his up with one hand so he asks me to take dc2. I take her, chat her up for a second and put her in the pushchair, angled so she can see us all, to keep her going for a couple of minutes hopefully so I can cut up my pizza and eat it with one hand with dc2 on my lap when she inevitably squalls. He says, frowning, "I think that will be in the way where the waitress needs to go." I say "well let's deal with that when it happens, or you can get up and deal with it now if you want, but if she was sitting next to me on the bumbo it wouldn't be a problem. But I don't want to dance about doing things now, I want to cut up my dinner." he clutched his brow and said "please don't do this, don't do this to me." I just left it but I thought wtf? all I am doing is resisting being constantly shoved to the bottom at the hierarchy of convenience, all I am saying is just give me a fucking minute while I am not darting about picking things up and moving them about, what the hell does "don't do this to me" mean?

We are home now, kids in bed, I could ask him but I am sick of this and don't want a row. Last time (before last night) we rowed it was because I said "What do you mean by that?" and everything spiralled out of control.

I do resent him, I really do, not for not being perfect and not for not being able to magically hold a child while cutting up a pizza but for behaving as if I am deranged when I stand up (or sit down, ha ha) for myself just that much: not shouting, no swearing, no unreasonable demands, and he is clutching his head looking pained and making himself out to be some kind of battered husband.

So, OK, AIBU?

Was he cutting your pizza? Why is it easier for you to cut up with a child than him? And why can't he take any responsibility for looking after your DC2 - why is it up to you?

OK, it sounds like things are quite tense and you're both getting at each other over minor things.

Couldn't you have handed the baby back to him once he'd cut his up? Mentioning the bumbo again could have come across as a bit "I told you so".

OK I did just ask him. He said when he said the pushchair was in the way, he wasn't asking me to do anything, just mentioning it and planning to get up and pick up dc2. And "don't do this" was because I responded as if he was having a go when he wasn't.

I don't believe him - as much as a depressed person can see anything, I am pretty sure that "that is in the waitress' way" meant "so don't leave dc2 there, get up and make some other arrangement." But I don't care. I am educating him by interrogating these attitudes. He has obviously realised he can't say "you should have got up and dealt with it" because that makes him an arse, So we are getting somewhere.

I think you're right to resent him. He calls you abusive, he contradicts you when you make suggestions, and he makes things difficult for you e.g. not bringing the Bumbo, not getting the pushchair out of the car, he belittles the enormous effort you are putting in to feeding your baby. Has he always been controlling, because this sounds like a control thing.

In that kind of situation, rather than getting pissed off or actually doing whatever it is yourself, maybe just agree and ask what he wants to do - "yes, you're right. Do you want to pick the baby back up?" etc.

I don't think you sound depressed. You sound like you are getting angry. And anger is a step beyond depression - a depressed person doesn't get angry, just feels helpless. Anger is empowering.

Did he tell you that you are depressed?

Gosh I am bumbling along tonight

What I meant to say is that it sounds like you are thinking of yourself in a way that isn't really you - you call yourself depressed, but you don't sound it. You say you are horrible, but your friend says lovely things to you (which suggests that you are not horrible after all)

I'm just wondering where this view of yourself comes from.