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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Am I abusive?

129 replies

amiabusive · 02/10/2011 00:14

DP has said I am.
I think I am not very nice. Don't know what to do about it. Think maybe I shouldn't have relationships at all, but too late now as I have 2 dcs so at least have to be their mother whatever happens and that is a relationship.

dc1 is 2, dc2 is 5 months. I am shattered, bfing all night and busy all day, you know how it is. DP can be very casual about my time and energy sometimes and I get snappy. I mean he just expects me to do things that most women probably do but I think, for instance, when we are all out, "why are you asking me where the wipes are:? and when I tell you, why can you never find them? Why would it be such a FUCKING DISASTER if I get 5 minutes doing nothing in a cafe? Why do I always have to be arse in the air rummaging for something for you?" anyway as you can see I am angry or something, I don't know, and although I try not to let it out I keep failing.

DP is nice really, relatively, but I feel ... I don't know.

I am being treated for PND but it isn't helping and it is just another thing that can be used to discredit me.

Anyway. When I am feeling self-pitying I think: well I gave birth, my body is obliterated, I am knackered, I am breastfeeding day and night, I am actually pretty fukcing desperate with misery a lot of the time, just back off and cut me some slack, if you can't actually help me could you moan a little less about how I am not sunshine and light. When I am being more self critical I hear what he is saying about my temper and think he is right, I am nasty and mood swingy, but manage to put a bright face on for others, I am being abusive.

Sometimes it seems like either way we have to break up, either because I am abusive or because I am being constantly criticised and accused of abuse while miserable, and that is no way to live.
Sometimes it seems like it would be crazy to break up over a tiny thing like he thinks I am a piece of shit.
Actually I think I am a piece of shit.

Anyway sorry about long post. Just to be concise at the end:

how do you know if you are abusive?
If you are what can you do?

OP posts:
RandomMess · 03/10/2011 18:02

I'm glad you feel this thread has helped. One of mine troughed her food down and dropped bf so rapidly I was redundant at 11 months Shock.

I think you are completely normal to find that all the little comments are adding up and making you feel "got" at etc, it's this things that you use to constantly undermine yourself and it's hard going changing the way you think.

All the best!

ChippingIn · 03/10/2011 18:35

Good luck getting it sorted.

I actually think your comment about the aliens has its place! Sometimes you need to make a point by saying something daft.

Please do let us know how things are going.

PS: I assume by now you realise you arem not abusive or horrible!! :)

Dozer · 03/10/2011 19:14

Glad you're feeling bit better today, hang in there, remember you're doing great, and fingers grossed that dc2 keeps guzzling that food!

Quietninja, think i have that bf hormone thing, totally recognise those feelings you talk about.

nametapes · 04/10/2011 09:21

Yes your behaviour is abusive somewhat, but them you are sleep deprived and totally knackered. Having abusive moments towards your partner doesnt make you an evil bad person, you are going through a very very difficult time. dont be too hard on yourself. Talk to DP about how you are feeling more and try to gain his support. Apologies and hugs can go a long way and it sounds like you both need them....

I hope you feel better soon and get through PND and recover your sleep loss asap. Best wishes. xx Hang on in there xxx

Shoni · 04/10/2011 09:58

Abusive? Not at all
Needing a break and a good night sleep?yes definitely!!
Men can be such un-sympathetic buggers sometimes they need there heads banging together! I've a 3 year old and a stroppy 7 year old and I thought that was hard work! But a toddler and a baby and breastfeeding!! goodness you must be exhausted, and yano what, there is nothing wrong with that, my hubby used to compare me to other woman also I was getting a bit worried of the fact he could look through brick Walls there for a while!!
The fact is if your putting a brave face on for other people, whose to say they aren't doing the same thing!?
Whatever engery you have left give your hubby a kick up the backside or ask for help from family! Maybe a time to start expressing and giving a bottle?
Best wishes x

ScottOfTheArseAntics · 04/10/2011 13:46

Oh bless you. Your posts resonate so clearly with me. I was you 10 years ago even down to the catholic guilt and the hyper-efficient mother. I had PND and my dh would happily sit reading the paper whilst I lugged the baby and a buggy up 3 flights of stairs. The only real difference is that we only have one child. If we had two I think I would have folded completely. I take my hat off to you.

You haven't mentioned how your relationship was prior to having your children. If it was solid and there was respect and love on both sides, this will come back. Having small children and babies puts you into what I fondly refer to as 'the heart of darkness', an endurance test and the crucible in which your relationship will be stripped down and eventually reformed.

The way through it is to talk, talk and talk. How do you both feel? What do you what both want? What can you both change about yourselves or your actions to smooth the way forward. If you are both reasonable, well-balanced and intelligent people (which you do sound to be) you can work through it.

It sounds like you do way too much and your DP lets that happen. You need to step back, start by going out one Saturday, leave the kids with him and don't get them dressed before you go or sort out anything more than a bottle of expressed milk. Let him hold the reins fully whilst you go and do something for yourself for a few hours.

Shoni · 04/10/2011 22:32

Well said scot.....

deviladvocate · 04/10/2011 22:57

i'm still bf'ing my third. the exhaustion and tiredness and sheer relentlessness of taking responsibility for 100% of the childcare sometimes mean i am snappy and aggressive and unreasonably impatient with my DH. Who on a good day doesn't see DC3 for more than 30 mins a day. Despite having three children i have to make a conscious effort to remember that he simply doesn't have the day-to-day childcare experience to know that we need nappies and wipes when we leave the house, he doesn't automatically know where they are kept and doesn't 'know' everything I do about managing the kids.

I wonder if having some time away from home (out for dinner, to the pub) with your DH might give you the space to discuss the fact that you're both having a rough time and try and agree to be a bit nicer to each other and try not to undermine or blame each other. it's not fun right now but it will not always be like this. one day the baby will sleep, the feeding will end and we might actually get some sleep. god i hope so for both our sakes!

choceyes · 05/10/2011 11:25

I was where you are now, and I still am sometimes, although things are a lot better since I started back at work a month ago.

I still BF my 13 month old DD and she still feeds a lot at night, but it's the easiest way to get her to sleep. It is exhausting. I have a nearly 3yr old DS as well, who I am having real difficulty dealing with. I feel like I am always telling him off.

Relationship with my DH is strained a lot of them time, because I am so tired. We have never argued as much as we have since DD was born and on several occassions I felt like I've had enough of the relationship and looking after children. I am also snappy and shouty with DH and it is not a good enviroment for the kids.

It is really hard being a mother to little ones, and I think almost all relatiionships suffer in the early years of parenthood.

I don't think you are being abusive, if you are, then I am too.

amiabusive · 09/10/2011 21:46

Thank you every one who posted on here and made me feel better.

Well things are looking up a bit. I have resisted scurrying about today and have done a lot more directing and pointing than usual. It's not going down badly as I subconsciously feared it might - although no reason to think so - I now see that my sense that I can't ask people to do things doesn't come from my DP but from somewhere else (where?).

I am doubting now whether I have PND at all.

I wish the crazy intensity of having a little baby could be honoured and facilitated instead of feeling like inadequacy. In a weird way I will miss these strange glowing days. But I wish I could enjoy them more instead of being so hung up on all the things I can't do. I can't do those other things because I am in the midst of something more intense than anything else.

I will never have another baby and now I wish I had been more able to let myself go in my darlings' babyhood.

I'm a bit sad but not in a horrible way. I am just sad that life has to flow so fast, that things slide away from you before you have really tasted them. It feels like a minute ago that I was on that weird narrow bed in the hospital with sun sliding in through a high window and a thousand sheets crossed over my naked body with gaps and twists, I was wet from the pool and dc2 was tiny and fat and buttery and silky and quiet and content and right up next to me and 20 minutes old. Where did that go? I bet I'll be saying that when she's 21. Oh my darling.

OP posts:
ChippingIn · 10/10/2011 00:24

Yes, you will be saying that :) Which is why you have to change life in the here and now to make it what you want it to be.

You've made a good start - keep going. Baby is only 5 months, lots of lovely snuggle time yet :)

twankie · 10/10/2011 06:00

As PP said ' Lack of sleep does terrible things to a person. And his job is to support you til that stage passes - and it will, and yes, that is a horrible horrible job for him, but it's still his job!'

Why oh why don't they teach men this???.. They need to learn..please..all you with young sons..please let them know how hard it is.. let's not have another generation of men not seeing or understanding this

SecondRow · 10/10/2011 12:27

Dear Ami, you write well. Do you ever write for yourself, do you find it cathartic? Or maybe you could write to DH some of what you need to communicate with him, and then talk it over afterwards.

The part about not putting the convenience of others before his loved ones, especially. He really needs to get that.

gobarbie · 10/10/2011 12:59

I am just sad that life has to flow so fast, that things slide away from you before you have really tasted them. It feels like a minute ago that I was on that weird narrow bed in the hospital with sun sliding in through a high window and a thousand sheets crossed over my naked body with gaps and twists, I was wet from the pool and dc2 was tiny and fat and buttery and silky and quiet and content and right up next to me and 20 minutes old. Where did that go? I bet I'll be saying that when she's 21. Oh my darling.

That's beautiful. Smile

gobarbie · 10/10/2011 13:16

Hi Ami, just read through your posts on this thread. It's sad for me because it sounds like me and dp, 13 years ago when our first was born. Everywhere we went life was complicated. This isn't PND, it's more to do with his treatment of you. You are angry because you are strong. You are protecting yourself.

One thing that helped me (far too late) was to disengage on a practical level. I got on with life as though I was on my own, expected nothing while he diddled about doing his thing. This worked in that it didn't disrupt the DCs lives and protected them from the arguments. They shouldn't be witnessing this kind of stuff, regardless of who is doing what to whom. Find other people to go out with, or go out on your own. Don't let him stop you enjoying your precious time with DCs.

The next stage was to disengage emotionally. I avoided rising to his bait - his positioning of me - his not doing stuff - his not saying stuff. If he provoked, I just ignored. Buttoned my lip. When he asks where the wipes are just say 'dunno'. When he wants to move you in the restaurant, either do it or ignore what he says and see what happens.

Try it for a week - just don't react to his nonsense, don't expect anything from him (hard I know) and wait for his reaction. Find other people to help out if need be.

deviladvocate · 11/10/2011 22:02

Gobarbie did it help? did he realise how rubbish he was being? are you still together? DH made me so cross last night being utterly useless when DD3 was having a teething meltdown, in the midst of attempting everything i could think of to settle her down i asked him to come and give me a hand. He was massively stroppy about being disturbed and wanted me to explain what he should do to help Confused sorry to hiijack just needed to vent. Grrr.....

witchybarbie · 12/10/2011 10:08

deviladvocate - Yes it did help because it stopped me getting cross with him. I just started getting on with stuff. Yes we are very probably going to separate - watch this space. No, he never realised how rubbish he was but at some point he realised that he was making himself redundant in their lives. It never changed him, but under threat of me leaving, he is making a small effort.

The only way it works is either I do everything, or I completely pull out of the situation and let him succeed or fail in whatever he does. It does mean letting go of the responsibility for the dcs a bit - you have to accept that sometimes they may not get everything done the way you want them to. I learned to do what cactusrash did, but far too late.

In the end, nothing terrible will happen. When I had two under twos, it was the hardest time of my life because it is completely absorbing. You have to devote every minute to them just to keep them fed watered and clean and in some ways it's better to get on with it and don't expect help. Get into a routine with housework so it's a habit rather than a chore. My being a feminist never helped with this either as I ended up resenting my role.

BeeBread · 12/10/2011 12:27

I'm going to go slightly against the flow here and stand up for your DH, OP.

The year after my first DC was born, my DH suffered from depression - effectively he was the one with PND. He was terribly distressed, miserable, tired, anxious, sleep deprived and of course I felt incredibly sorry for him and did my best to be supportive and helpful and patient.

But as the partner of someone with depression I can say that it is awful, awful, awful to live with. The unending misery and complaints, the absence of a pleasant, positive conversation. The interpretation of every word and action and event in the most negative way possible. It is exhausting and I don't think that it is fair to advise that the person living this environment should be expected to soak it up endlessly without feeling unhappy or frustrated themselves. Ok, I understand that my DH was deeply unhappy and in mental anguish. But for a lot of that year, the parts of my life I spent with him were also ruined. A partner's feelings are not as unimportant as are being made out in this thread. I can entirely relate to his "don't do this to me" comment because after a few months of DH's misery, the mere thought of him starting

I don't say this to make you feel worse, OP, but to let you know that actually your DH might just be a very nice human being who is also struggling to find the right way to cope with a difficult situation. Okay he might say the wrong thing from time to time. But then he is human, no? Don't write him or your relationship off - try to be kinder to and more forgiving of yourself, but him too.

It does also sound to me that you have martyr tendancies, which are adding resentment to the swirling mass of negative emotions you already have courtesy of your PND.

However, I agree that he sounds rather useless, but in the spirit of kindness/forgiveness, I think it is possible that he is less efficient and tuned in to the practicalities than you are because:

(a) you do this much more than he does, and have had time to learn from mistakes, work out your own routine, ways of managing your two DC etc; and

(b) you take over from him whenever he gets it wrong, thereby relieving him of the responsibility and the learning experience.

Ok it would be nice if he just knew what is needed, but he doesn't. Now is the time to be absolutely straight with him and agree in advance the basics that you need him to do. Eg, every time you both go out together, it is his job to dress DC/put together supplies/put the pram in the car. Every time you come back in from a joint outing, he will bring the pram back in from the car. There must be loads of regular tasks you can delegate? I bet he would appreciate just knowing what is expected than constantly upsetting you. Think about it first so that you can get a much content into the one conversation rather than feeling as though you are constantly nagging.

Also, you need to put your foot down more - you really do know best. If you think that a meal out would work better with a Bumbo, then insist. Until he has as much experience as you, your views about the practicalities are better informed and more valuable. But, if your DH ultimately does something wrong, always always always let him cope with the aftermath rather than sorting it out for him and silently seething.

Also I am Confused at your breastfeeding exhaustion at this stage; it sounds extreme. Please get your thyroid and iron levels tested, what you describe isn't run of the mill. And also make sure that there is enough carbs/sugar in your diet to keep you going. I had an extra meal every day that I breastfed - normally tea and cake mid-afternoon. Without the dairy milk sugar in my system I really flagged.

It strikes me OP that you and your DH love each other but are both floundering in a difficult situation. Some bossy groundrules will give you both clarity.

Rosmarin · 12/10/2011 12:37

Watching with interest as I often feel like I am not a very nice person and can indentify strongly with some of the things you say.

My behaviour stems from resent and anger at certain events in my life (crappy childhood, mum passing away young). It's about not being on the same footing as others - e.g. boyfriend has had such an easy life/why am I being 'punished' by life? Maybe your anger does too, but of course from different events. Would counselling be an option? It's amazing what having someone to actually listen to you without judging you can do. They will also be able to highlight issues/roots you hadn't realised were there.

Good luck :)

solittletime · 12/10/2011 12:44

Weirdly it is almost comforting for me to read your post! I was feeling similar to you when my dd was 2.5 and baby was 6 months. I can honestly say that was one of the worst phases of my life. Luckily my dh was not quite as insensitive (although he had his moments). Baby is almost 2 now and everything is soo much better.
Feeling that you should not have had children is not so unusual - you are clearly suffering from depression. Can you take St John's Wort while breast-feeding? If yes, then I would reccomend it. I ended up mixing breast and formula feeding or I would have gone mad.
You definitely do not sound 'abusive' to me. If you were a man you'd be saying that you are being provoked in to being abusive! Would he do a fraction of what you are trying to achieve?
Anyway, to conclude - yes, he SHOULD be giving you a rest, but probably won't or won't do it gracefully.
-Take a break, get someone else - relative, good friend, pay a babysitter, anything, to give yourself a break. Never mind the principle that he should be the one helping, if he won't, you still need a break, and need to get it any way you can.

solittletime · 12/10/2011 12:47

Actually also agree a bit with Beebread. As I went through a similar phase, being a martyr will not help anyone (maybe speaking more for myself here than you), and looking back my dh was also very down and tired at the time. It's just a terrible combination of factors. Looking back I wish I hadn't bottled everything up so much and been more vocal.

porcamiseria · 12/10/2011 12:50

Oh OP< your post resounhds with so many of us

I thought I had P{ND but actually I was just tired too!

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

deviladvocate · 13/10/2011 12:20
Blush

Think a day off for me might be in order to regain some perspective and drop DH in at the deep end some time with the kids

hope you're doing ok OP

amiabusive · 25/11/2011 08:23

Bump
Update: I need someone to talk to about this extremely selfish decision

Background: we have found somewhere to move to and are moving in a week. We have all had colds. I have a chest infection and sinusitis. dd1 and dd2 have been sleeping badly, especially dd2 who can't suck her thumb with a blocked nose. I lost it big style with dp on Monday when he did a couple of things I thought were outrageously inconsiderate (were just normal thoughtlessness of course) after he offered to sleep with the baby and let me sleep alone in the box room. I woke when the baby woke anyway, so was tired, and interpreted his thoughtlessness as "I have done one night with the baby therefore I am a hero and don't need to take care of anything else" attitude. And went a bit mental. The baby refused to go back to sleep with a bottle anyway, and I breastfed her.

The selfish decision: I have booked a night in a hotel an hour away, tonight. DP is fine with this. I am not sure. The baby hasn't settled for DP either of the two times he has tried to give me a night off. I think it might be a terrible thing to do to drive off to a nice bed knowing that my baby is going to be crying.

I am desperate for some sleep, my hands are cut to bits and covered in plasters because I keep chopping them up when I am cooking and I am using this as an excuse for a night off: look at the state of my hands, I am so lucky that I haven't caused an accident with the kids. But I can't bear to think that my little girl is going to be wondering where I am and crying. (dd1 will be fine, she adores her daddy and is big enough to understand I am away for one night and will be back soon)

If I change my mind I lose the money but more to the point I lose the sleep. what should I do? I was really a bit mental when I booked it and I didn't care about anything else. Now I am a little saner I am thinking it is quite mean.

Sorry about all the rambling. WWYD?

OP posts:
SecondRow · 25/11/2011 08:35

Go the hotel for heaven's sake, do it!

I did it. It was great. Not just the sleep but the leisurely luxurious breakfast the next day with newspapers, croissants, and the only interruption being the waitress topping up my delicious coffee.

Listen, it's true DD2 may not really settle properly for the night BUT she will be with her daddy, if he has to walk the floor with her for a few hours, so be it, she will be close to someone who loves her all that time, it won't damage her.

And your need for sleep is not any less important than the rest of your family's needs.

Do it!

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