How many of the men in your life have used prostitutes, compared with how many who haven't? I'd like to ask for help or perspectives on this?

[aliasforthis2]

I'm a semi-regular poster but obviously have name-changed for this.

I feel sad and like I've seen things I cannot un-see.

So if you can be reasonably sure that your husband or partner or ex or other male in your life has NOT used prostitutes post please post here.

Likewise if any males in your life HAVE used prostitutes please post here too.

And also if they gave reasons for either doing it or not doing it or given their views on the sex industry please post them.

Hopefully it will give me a more balanced perspective than my current "all men are johns who did these things" and help my recovery.

I worked as a prostitute for 4 years and stopped/exited nearly 18 months ago. The reason I started working as a prostitute was because it was sold to me as a glamourous and easy way to make money. At the time I had many debts and was working minimum wage and living totally hand-to-mouth with no room for manouvere,if an unexpected financial burden hit like a bank charge, we would be screwed having to choose between food and electric. A friend worked for an agency and I'd seen Belle du Jour and naively thought it would be like that.

Anyway, I am now out as I just couldn't handle it anymore. A very small percentage of the men were ok but the vast majority did things like -
-try to take the condoms off
-have poor hygiene and refuse to shower first worried it would take up their 'time'
-try to get service for less money or even steal back the money
-try to force services i did not offer like anal
-be unashamed about the fact they were partnered or had a wife at home
-speak to me disrespectfully and patronising, saying things like "I want to get the most for my money" etc
-scrutinize my body and give me advice on how to look better or compare me either positively or negatively to other ladies
-try to take up mush more time than paid for deliberately
-sometimes maybe once a month i was assaulted leaving bruises or spat on or held in a house
-a lot of phone or text harrassment
-most wanted young women the younger the better ie 18-20. i'm serious when i say that this is what most men wanted - young and naive. I answered the phone for the agency sometimes and i'd say three quarters of the men specifically requested 'young' ie 18-21 , 25 at a push.Which I think is disgusting given most are in their 40s wanting as close to 18 as they can.

Obviously not every man did ALL of the above but I'd be hard pressed to find a man who did not try at least one of those things. I don't know any other way to describe it.

I have been single for a while, I had a relationship with a genuinely lovely man I met at my new work for a while (no red flags) but it ended as he became a complete workaholic when starting a company and we drifted apart and split 6 months ago.

Anyway the point of this thread is for me to get a more balanced perspective on men. I had counselling on the NHS for 12 weeks which was helping but they wouldn't fund any more. I have been told by sympathetic friends who are also ex prostitutes (not told anyone in 'real life') to remind myself that it's only a v.small percentage of men who use prostitutes/escorts. But I just cannot see it like that. Every man I see walking down the street I view as a potential customer of prostitutes and treated a person how the customers treated me. I feel like punching them sometimes for no reason. Every married man I know I wonder if they have went to a prostitute with their wedding ring happily on moaning about their wife. I find myself wondering if I will ever have a relationship with trust again. I don't live in a particularly big place or a travelling business place but the sheer hoardes of men calling the agency every day and booking was unbelievable. And more than half would have unsuspecting wives or gfs.

I feel sad and like I've seen things I cannot un-see.

So if you can be reasonably sure that your husband or partner or ex or other male in your life has NOT used prostitutes post please post here.

Likewise if any males in your life HAVE used prostitutes please post here too.

And also if they gave reasons for either doing it or not doing it or given their views on the sex industry please post them.

Hopefully it will give me a more balanced perspective than my current "all men are johns who did these things" and help my recovery.

Thanks x

Erm, you sent 6, yes SIX messages beatenbyayellowteacup and one was after the point was made before.

Moonferret I really think you are derailing this, you need to leave. You made a point, you really aren't helping the OP. I posted on this thread to try to answer her question, thats all she asked. I think you are being rude by continuing to make this thread about yourself.

No it wasn't actually, but I don't want to derail this any further.

None of them were flattering, so don't kid yourself.

I've already had two messages deleted and they weren't even expressing how I really feel, so I can't really say it again.

No, it's people that can't accept others' legitimate point of view that caused the problem Pam. Blaming me and not them shows that you are another of them.

That bears out what is being commonly being reported by sex workers namely, that younger punters are in many cases nastier and more unreasonable/insistent than their older counterparts, alias.

Male violence to women is endemic in our society; it's no respecter of class and, more worryingly, it appears to afflict young males who, one would hope, have been raised in a different manner to that of any misogynist forebears they may have in their family trees.

Alias, have my post deleted if you want.

There are women who use men as mealtickets. I've not met many of same, but recently had close encounters with a 'gold digger' and her attitude astounded me. She really believes that men should pay for women. Not as literally as in prostitution, but... When she has a relationship with a man, she expects him to pay for everything for her. She's got her own money but it doesn't count somehow. I witnessed her coaching her daughters - one wanted a car; she told her to get a boyfriend with a car, then get him to give it to her

This is TOTALLY different from prostitution, something I think our resident misogynist doesn't get. But his frequent comments about women-and-money lead me to think he's encountered such a woman. I can understand how it would leave you jaded.

It's a repulsive mindset of the woman.
The men who pay for her must, I imagine, see women as a commodity.
But it's not the same as prostitution.

another of 'what' moonferret I read through the thread, the OP was asking for some info, some other points were raised but she was getting through the points, making observations. I really don't know who you are, I can't make a personal judgement but from reading your posts you come across as very angry at women. I wonder is it so healthy for you to post here? Does it maybe fuel your apparent anger towards women. I know this is not a 'womans' only thread, and many men have made valuable contributions to the the topic but you seem to take your views to a whole other level. I think this is wrong and I think you are doing a diservice to the OP. Please have a little respect for her, forget about the grudges you may hold against other poster this is not about them or you, just the OP.

I think the problem is Izzy that younger men have access to hardcore porn in a way that older men didnt have. They see nasty porn online and it conditions them to believe that its ok and normal to treat women (or women in certain jobs) in a certain way.

Older men didnt have access to the same things so easily, so their fantasies are usually self generated and therefore less nasty. But Google "Hardcore Porn" and you are inundated with hits, its so easy to see that its considered normal. Its almost like advertising, they dont know they want it until someone shows them its out there.

Pam..you need to look at my first post, and where it went from there. Only a poster called FellatioNelson seemed to be able to respect my view. The rest wanted a fight, as ever.

ok moonferret I can't engage with you anymore. As much as you are entitled to your opinion, and I believe you are, however much I disagree with it, its not fair for the OP to have to read through these posts derailing her thread. I really would stop now if I was you, have a little respect. Apologies alias for the derail.
Good luck to ohmetoo as well, I hope you get the support you need to leave and get on with your life and find your freedom.

My DP visited one when he was younger.

He was very shy and a virgin until he was 24. He just wanted not to be a virgin any longer. He only went one time and bitterly regrets it now.

He has been very open and honest with me. I don't judge him and I don't judge the women who do it. It has been enlightening to hear about it from Alias point of view. I'm sorry you're getting a hard time on this thread.

I feel 100% sure that my father, my best male friend and my current partner have never used prostitutes.
My ex ... am not so sure.
If I thought any man I was in contact with had, I'd cut them out of my life. I have so little respect for any man that does. I can't believe their own self respect allows them to delude themselves about the transaction.

I can totally understand your distrust of men OP because of your experience...but I know some lovely honest decent men who respect women and believe a relationship is about valuing/loving each other.

Men that I actually know well like DH and may friends: Never.
However my DH has been to a lapdancing club as part of a friends stag do. This was organised by his BILs to be though and they DID stay the night...which was a tad odd since the club didnt explicitly offer overnight accomodation
DH won't do that again, he found the depersonalisation of the women disturbing and the fact that there is generally no proper conversation possible in such an establishment. That and the irony that the stag would have been much happier playing Laserquest and eating pizza instead!

prostitutes of both sexes provide a valuable service to society,
err..valuable for whom? you mentioned disabled people etc, but surely not valuable to the women who have to sleep with them, as no offence but it can be disgusting to them (as is generally also with most of their clients who aer old, ugly, unhygienic (as OP mentioned), or just nasty! You can't say something is valuable to society if it's damaging to the workers who do it - and dangerous too even it was legalised (you never know what a drunk psycho can do, who cares whether he's punished after the damage is done).

I get the moonferret's post about gold diggers - respect to him that even after his disappointments he doesn't generalise about women and recognises that there aer plenty non-goldiggers (i.e. doesn't hate women).
I think there are nasty men, and there are nasty women who are callous users and who can't love a man - just interested in what she can get out of him. All cases of that are usually people who didn't have good childhood/had parents issues, so it's hard to judge.

I also think there are prostitutes who are older and confident, and stayed in the business out of choice, as they are pitiying/hating men and their weaknesses (esp in dominatrix scenarios where she doesn't even have sex, just inflicts pain) and it's easier for her to make money (if she's established and has a few regulars) than in regular jobs.
Apart from very young girls who were coerced, or those who were victims of drug-dealers and got into drugs, there is always a choice - she can always do a cleaning job in hotels etc (yes, unpleasant but not dangerous/damaging), and she can share a flat on that salary or move out to less expensive area - I'm sorry, but many hookers are lazy and above menial jobs. Thankfully most realise soon that what they do is worse, but they do get hooked themselves on money! You can ALWAYS go and scrub the floors/work in the kitchen if you have nothing to eat. Again I'm talking of those who stay in the job for more than initial 'curious' period, and who are not coerced by pimps/drug dealers.

Fellatio wasn't 'respecting' your views moonferret, they simply didn't want this thread to be derailed in the way it has largely due to your input.

FTR, IMO mumsnet have been far too heavyhanded with the blue pencil of late as whole posts as well as individual responses have been removed without apparent justification.

I abhor censorship; there are many views expressed on this site that I do not agree with but I defend the right of others to express themselves freely.

As (hallelujah) there is just one moonferret at the current time perhaps, in the interests of minimising the gaps between the important dialogue and the 'drivel', the remainder of us should draw straws as to who will take up the cudgel and engage in a fair fight to the death?

Neither of my hsbands and none of my more serious boyfriends used prostitutes. If they had they wouldn't have been serious boyfriends. My father and brother never used them.

and just in case - obv when i say it can't be valuable if it's dangerous, don't come up with examples of firemen or army - that's about saving lives or doing something inevitable, while satisfying sex urges is not IMPORTANt, anyone can live without sex (it's not life threatening), they can always masturbate if they can't find a partner.

*Alias, have my post deleted if you want.

There are women who use men as mealtickets. I've not met many of same, but recently had close encounters with a 'gold digger' and her attitude astounded me. She really believes that men should pay for women. Not as literally as in prostitution, but... When she has a relationship with a man, she expects him to pay for everything for her. She's got her own money but it doesn't count somehow. I witnessed her coaching her daughters - one wanted a car; she told her to get a boyfriend with a car, then get him to give it to her

This is TOTALLY different from prostitution, something I think our resident misogynist doesn't get. But his frequent comments about women-and-money lead me to think he's encountered such a woman. I can understand how it would leave you jaded.

It's a repulsive mindset of the woman.
The men who pay for her must, I imagine, see women as a commodity.
But it's not the same as prostitution*

What post? No I agree with your above writings. I've never been, nor wanted to be a gold-digger, although I would not be in relationship with someone who could not pay their half of our household bills (ie can't hold down a job) OR take care of our children instead as a fair contribution. It is not prostitution though, that much is correct. I will try to raise my daughter and son to seek out equal and respectful relationships with the other sex, rather than trying to use people for what they can get.

I'd actually not make prostitution legal - I'd make it completely illegal and non-existent, so it's stops! Most people are capable of finding a partner, and there aer plenty of sex clubs where people can swing etc on equal terms.
The easy availability of it just rots the morals. It brings NOTHING good for the workers, and encourages the rot within punters. If it didn't exist, punters would just get used to less sex in their life, yes, as simple as that. Or more effort to get sex. It's like feeding a child with lots of candy, the more they used to it the more they want, to their own detriment (but much worse of course with sex).

prostitutes of both sexes provide a valuable service to society I seem to recall writing that, passionsrunhigh. Perhaps you would care to consider the service that prostitutes provide in cushioning the wider community from abuse/violence and other perversions/deviant behaviour that would otherwise be reflected in crime statistics?

With respect, if you can read moonferret's responses and see a man who 'doesn't hate women' I suggest you visit specsavers asap.

As for the remainder of your response, it seems that you are trying desperately to romanticise that which you have limited experience or knowledge of. Prostitution is the oldest profession; it's not going to disappear any time soon and its inherent problems cannot be dismissed by the attribution of fictitious stereotypes or wishful thinking.

I haven't read moonferret's posts apart from the first two - but i will do Just commented on golddigger point per se.
Yes, both sexes- why is that any better? as i say it's damaging to the workers either physically or mentally- so it CAN NOT be valuable, apart from one-sided way in some cases. It's not worth damaging aNY person for the sake of satisfuing someone's urges. I repeat there aer sex clubs or sites for sex with no strings where people can go. The history ffs was based on men having financial power and controlling women.

apart from the fact that both sexes is hardly 50-50. Also gay men can be easily targeted/killed by anti-gay psychos through this, even if otherwise some gays are more 'happy' to do it than women. Is even one death worth it?

sadly, it's not going to disappear now, as if I don't know that! I said I would have it banned and criminalised altogether, of course wishful, as it's all business and government can't seem to make a stand.

I'd make it completely illegal and so it's stops!
How exactly do you propose to make illegal behaviour stop, prh?

Murder is illegal. It hasn't stoppped.

Domestic violence is illegal. It hasn't stopped.

Rape is illegal. It hasn't stopped.

Paedophilia is illegal. It hasn't stopped.

Prostitution is illegal and punishable by death in many repressive Arab states. It hasn't stopped.

As for If it didn't exist, punters would just get used to less sex in their life, yes, as simple as that If it didn't work in Puritan England when the much smaller population had no access to printed hardcore porn/films etc, what makes you think you can rid this country, or the world, of prostitution now?

Thank you for your kind reply, Alias. I'm sorry your thread's gone a bit pear-shaped atm - may be the late hour! Or something