How many of the men in your life have used prostitutes, compared with how many who haven't? I'd like to ask for help or perspectives on this?

[aliasforthis2]

I'm a semi-regular poster but obviously have name-changed for this.

I feel sad and like I've seen things I cannot un-see.

So if you can be reasonably sure that your husband or partner or ex or other male in your life has NOT used prostitutes post please post here.

Likewise if any males in your life HAVE used prostitutes please post here too.

And also if they gave reasons for either doing it or not doing it or given their views on the sex industry please post them.

Hopefully it will give me a more balanced perspective than my current "all men are johns who did these things" and help my recovery.

I worked as a prostitute for 4 years and stopped/exited nearly 18 months ago. The reason I started working as a prostitute was because it was sold to me as a glamourous and easy way to make money. At the time I had many debts and was working minimum wage and living totally hand-to-mouth with no room for manouvere,if an unexpected financial burden hit like a bank charge, we would be screwed having to choose between food and electric. A friend worked for an agency and I'd seen Belle du Jour and naively thought it would be like that.

Anyway, I am now out as I just couldn't handle it anymore. A very small percentage of the men were ok but the vast majority did things like -
-try to take the condoms off
-have poor hygiene and refuse to shower first worried it would take up their 'time'
-try to get service for less money or even steal back the money
-try to force services i did not offer like anal
-be unashamed about the fact they were partnered or had a wife at home
-speak to me disrespectfully and patronising, saying things like "I want to get the most for my money" etc
-scrutinize my body and give me advice on how to look better or compare me either positively or negatively to other ladies
-try to take up mush more time than paid for deliberately
-sometimes maybe once a month i was assaulted leaving bruises or spat on or held in a house
-a lot of phone or text harrassment
-most wanted young women the younger the better ie 18-20. i'm serious when i say that this is what most men wanted - young and naive. I answered the phone for the agency sometimes and i'd say three quarters of the men specifically requested 'young' ie 18-21 , 25 at a push.Which I think is disgusting given most are in their 40s wanting as close to 18 as they can.

Obviously not every man did ALL of the above but I'd be hard pressed to find a man who did not try at least one of those things. I don't know any other way to describe it.

I have been single for a while, I had a relationship with a genuinely lovely man I met at my new work for a while (no red flags) but it ended as he became a complete workaholic when starting a company and we drifted apart and split 6 months ago.

Anyway the point of this thread is for me to get a more balanced perspective on men. I had counselling on the NHS for 12 weeks which was helping but they wouldn't fund any more. I have been told by sympathetic friends who are also ex prostitutes (not told anyone in 'real life') to remind myself that it's only a v.small percentage of men who use prostitutes/escorts. But I just cannot see it like that. Every man I see walking down the street I view as a potential customer of prostitutes and treated a person how the customers treated me. I feel like punching them sometimes for no reason. Every married man I know I wonder if they have went to a prostitute with their wedding ring happily on moaning about their wife. I find myself wondering if I will ever have a relationship with trust again. I don't live in a particularly big place or a travelling business place but the sheer hoardes of men calling the agency every day and booking was unbelievable. And more than half would have unsuspecting wives or gfs.

I feel sad and like I've seen things I cannot un-see.

So if you can be reasonably sure that your husband or partner or ex or other male in your life has NOT used prostitutes post please post here.

Likewise if any males in your life HAVE used prostitutes please post here too.

And also if they gave reasons for either doing it or not doing it or given their views on the sex industry please post them.

Hopefully it will give me a more balanced perspective than my current "all men are johns who did these things" and help my recovery.

Thanks x

Alias - I'd have had to move house, as I said - HB wouldn't cover my rent. Dc is getting support at school (SEN/possibly something quite long term/serious) and we may have had to move schools too - doesn't deal well with change, so would be difficult. Would have had to give up dc's out of school activies, only have 2 but they are important. Gas and electric: I'm the type of person that sits under a duvet on the sofa rather than have the heating on. We're already in fuel poverty. As I've explained, I tried it, it didn't work. I was plummeting financially, I now have debt as well as being a low earner. Had to return to escorting.

I understand how hard it is to leave though. I totally understand. I too had a huge 5 year gap on my CV and no-one would hire me even minimum wage. I found a voluntary work placement in the field I wanted to work in for just 4 hours per week the last year I was in sex work. I remember getting rejected lots of times and thinking I'm that worthless no-one will even hire me for free work! The day I got the phonecall came and I was jumping around the agency flat on top of the world. Then 5 mins later I had a really vile client - really smelly, pushy and arrogant and also married and lay there criticizing his wife and daughter left right and centre. I remembered his face as someone who stalked me by email sending horrible emails about me being a 'liar' etc years before when I'd first started and at a different agency but this time he did not recognize me as I had a wig on with totally different hair and was years older. Even that couldn't bring me down I felt so happy to have a semblance of normality again!

My current job pays shit - minimum wage and the hours I can do are limited to 9-5 due to having the kids, but if I'm struggling for money my friend takes them and I do some overtime. Very occasionally I do webcamming if I'm really really struggling but since it's still a branch of the industry and you get assholes on there too I try not to do it much unless I really need to. At least it's physically safe though and done from your home on your computer. And the bargaining and insulting guys are more benign through a computer screen you can just 'ban' them at any time - sort of like other people's idea of a very bad dating site for example.

Maybe those are some ideas OP? If you could spare 4 hours a week to do some volunteering whilst still working you could put that on your CV? I got mine just by ringing up but also got some callbacks from this site Volunteering there's also versions for Scotland and England.

Or the webcamming. although the money is variable and less than escorting and it's still sex industry which you are trying to get out of but at least it's safe.

Good luck though, I know how hard it is. many times I thought I was trapped forever and sometimes still have dreams where a member of my family becomes ill or whatever and I would have to go back (I would have to if in absolute desperation) and the sinking feeling is horrible.

I wouldn't advocate setting up a business or trying to get a high-responsibility job when you are fresh out of prostitution. The pressure would be too hard and stressful. Start off simple. It's actually not unlike AA or a rehabilitation.

I can assure you that I'm very definitely not 'tutting' ohme, nor am I patronising or insulting you or any other woman who finds herself in a negative relationship and/or abusive situation where economic dependence plays a part in influencing her decisions.

I would also point out that I have not used the term 'comfort zone' in relation to the work that you have chosen to do; I have used it to describe the state of mind that we can find ourselves in when we are trying to free ourselves of negative and destructive thought patterns and habits.

It is a fact that many thousands of female single parents manage to feed, clothe, and house, themselves and their dc on low incomes or benefits and they do not seek to enhance their finances by engaging in the sex industry.

As you were not the victim of trafficking, the fact is that it is your choice to engage in prostitution and, while I may feel sad that you feel or believe that you have no choice but to continue in the profession, I do not condemn you for your decision.

Going to prostitutes doesn't stop the men who do it from getting and keeping jobs. Just the women they use. Which of course keeps them as a steady supply to be use because they have no other means of support

This is very true. Any conviction for prostitution related offenses and you can automatically forget entry to any jobs with children, vulnerable people, and the elderly. Or any jobs relating to finances/money. You are actually classed as a "Sex Offender" - it's disgusting. And sending out the wrong message. Look at how guys like Wayne Rooney etc get out of it unscathed "he's just a lad" mentality. But the prostitutes they use are vilified in the media as "gold-digging bitches" etc

None of the men in my life have ever used protitutes, nor do I believe they ever would!

IMO it is not the norm.

My child is the main reason I feel I cannot seek support. I imagine going to my GP and asking for counselling or advice and GP phoning social services and them taking my child away because I am a prostitute

Ohmetoo, believe me when I say that your child will NOT be taken if you seek help or counselling. Even if you don't seek help and just went and told them you are a prostitute. Unless there are other issues such as drugs or neglect (and you sure sound like a fabulous mother, so most likely no issues there) they have no reason to take your children at all.

These are the 2 main things they look at (feel free to PM me or tell me to mind my own business you don't have to answer these at all x) - this is from the horses mouth from my GP and sex work project -

1. Where are the child(ren) when you work? School, or a registered childcare provider? Great no cause for concern . Family member or trusted friend/babysitter? Great - as long as the carer is known to the child and of good character then SS will have no problem.

2. Where do you work from? Anywhere away from your own home? Great all will be fine. From your own home (even if children out, worse if they in)? not so good since you could be seen as putting them at risk from stalker-types etc. Although it's not necessarily an automatic concern if the child is older ie 12 or above. I knew ladies who did 'massage' from their homes whilst their older teenagers were out and had no problems. but if you do work from home, perhaps try to change where you work just to be on safe side. But rest assured no-one is going to take your children away.

sort of like other people's idea of a very bad dating site for example

It sounds not dissimilar to some of the sites used by other mumsnetters who are using internet dating sites alias.

Some of their experiences are contained in another post that is currently in the top ten on this board, from which it seems that some of your webcam clients may be making themselves available elsewhere in the hope that they'll get lucky for free.

Oh I'm sorry Ohmetoo I hadn't read your other posts. i do understand that business is slow for sex workers too at the moment. It was quiet before I left and some friends who are still working have said it's gotten worse with many of these lovely men haggling over what they think buying a women's body is worth and also many more women starting due to the recession. More half hours , more 15 min bookings too.

I was told by some men over the phone or in person things like "How much? I don't think you're worth that love, I can get a tight teen for that much" and some of the guys on message boards telling each other tactics on how to 'drive market prices down' - yes people you are reading it right - men trying to drive the 'market' price of someone's body down!!! and actually gloating at the desperation of the women they have managed to get to reduce prices, posting their personal 'triumphs' it really is disgusting and hard to understand unless you actually experience it. However since I have exited, I have found myself looking at it more through the eyes of people who have never worked, although I still "know" iyswim? and whereas stuff like bargaining used to be business as usual to me, now I view it as astonishing. They are telling women at what price they should sell their body and soul, and sell off their future intimate relationships and the meaning of sex to themselves.

(returning to the original question)
I'm a man in my 50s, and I've never used a prostitute and nor have any of my friends so far as I know.

First DH I can't imagine for one second that he would have seen a prostitute.

Second DH did, but before we were together (many years before) and not in the conventional manner. He had a spell as a young man when he worked as a minder and chauffeur for a stripper, and mixed in circles of not entirely conventional people. Some of his friends were working girls, and he was quite promiscuous as a young man and mutually wanted sex took place with a couple of his working girl friends, but he never picked up a prostitute for cash, and always treated his friends who were working girls with total respect (whether consensual sex had taken place or not). He might have been a tart when he was younger but I believe that he always treated people as equals and with dignity.

OP, I can totally understand that your time in sex work has left you with a jaded view of men, given your experiences. I can only suggest that you give yourself time to heal emotionally, and only surround yourself by good, genuine people. All the best for the future.

Counselling - maybe for the future but it's not much use right now, while I'm still in the industry. It would be like going to get counselling for assault then getting assaulted after every session

I totally get what you mean when you say it would be like getting counselling for assault then getting assaulted every session. I did have some short counselling sessions when I was still working and they did help although mainly I would just bring the one or two worst sessions of the week into the counselling and it was more like "maintenance repair" . but it did help me to see things more clearly. it really did.

Don't worry about hijacking at all x your experience has been parallel to my own pretty much and i' very very grateful for your input.

Fwiw, I had to budget right down to my socks in preparation for leaving prostitution. I'm sure you have already done this, so please don't take this the wrong way at all, but I'm just saying. I had to go right down to basics whilst still budgeting a little for treats as I may have gone back due to feeling guilt for not being able to take kids to a cheap party on the weekend for example. I got food for me and 2 kids down to £5 per day and we wear jumpers instead of put heating on a lot. I shop in primark, matalan, H&M, charity shops or supermarkets for clothes, get the cheapest make-up and if the kids need a small item of clothing I will take them to my best friend's houses for dinner that night so I can save the £5 I would have spent on food (!) - I then invite her for dinner when I'm feeling more flush. I walk everywhere I can instead of taking public transport. Please don't think I'm telling you what to do, I totally understand how you feel, I was terrified to leave prostitution actually because excepting a supermarket it was the only job and life I'd known. And I thought what if I end up needing fast money again? so i always tell myself I can go back if needs really must but I would do any tight budgeting not to have to as the stress, panic attacks and migraines etc I had when even thinking about prostituting at the end put me off. I was mainly worried for my safety after the attacks and people who take condoms off.

I really wish I could help OMT x

aliasforthis2 I really do sympathise, but when you sell yourself, you have to accept that your body does become a commodity that is subject to market forces and negotiation. This is why some charge £200+ an hour, and some can only get £50. It is also why rates aren't at £10/£20 an hour or £500+, market forces determine it all. It's clearly offensive for a man to say "you're not worth that...", but getting it as cheaply as possible is perfectly reasonable.

FellatioNelson Thanks for seeing things so realistically!

Alias - I'd have had to move house, as I said - HB wouldn't cover my rent. Dc is getting support at school (SEN/possibly something quite long term/serious) and we may have had to move schools too - doesn't deal well with change, so would be difficult. Would have had to give up dc's out of school activies, only have 2 but they are important. Gas and electric: I'm the type of person that sits under a duvet on the sofa rather than have the heating on. We're already in fuel poverty. As I've explained, I tried it, it didn't work. I was plummeting financially, I now have debt as well as being a low earner. Had to return to escorting

I understand. Sorry I keep cross-posting with you! I ran up huge debts and got switched to pre-payment meters when I was on benefits which was even worse as the normal rate and the rate of repayments are huge. I am £30 a week for them and that's on lowest rate of re-pay. Luckily I was (just) in LHA bracket but I do understand that if you are above the bracket and on benefits the DWP are not going to help you move financially, are they? and I wouldn't want to move schools either x

alias I would just like to say I sympathise with your issues around men, and can fully understand the way that you feel

I think you are brave, and true to yourself...you make no excuses for the situation you found yourself driven into. I have great respect for you for getting out. I also have great respect for the women still there...my biggest wish is that you can move on and away

I sincerely hope you can find some peace of mind, and that you and dc continue to flourish away from that awful world x

mf drivel ?

have some respect, dude

this thread is about the Op's experiences, it actually isn't about you

You know you get no considered response from me AF, so why do you persist in trying?

This is why some charge £200+ an hour, and some can only get £50

• not quite, moonferret, it's more about who you know. Most girls and women going into it for an income (here, anyway) use an agency. The agencies - and their customers - create the mainstream marketplace. A £10,000 woman is no more beautiful or skilled than an agency escort; she arrived on the game via a different route is all.

moonferret-hypocrite? Im crushed.really.

mf have we conversed before ?

I have no recollection of that

I pick up on posts on an individual basis

it ain't personal

like I said, this thread isn't about you