What's fair? Working out finances in our marriage

[theredsalamander]

ive had some fab support and feedback in this thread here and dh has agreed that we should split our finances in a more equitable way.

We have sat down and added together what our joint household expenditure is, so all household costs eg car fuel heating building maintenance car repairs water insurances the lot. Previously cars were indiv expenses.

Tbh it has scared the bejeezus out of me because for the first time I can see what dh has been funding out of his wages without any input from me and it's A LOT. They are the irregular costs that aren't calculated monthly and so don't go out on a monthly direct debit, for example car insurance or tax.

We are living a lifestyle which my wage cannot hope to contribute fairly to -if we split our contributions to joint account proportionally based on our incomes the maximum I could put in as my share still wouldn't be enough. (eg if total coat is 3k, my share might be worked out to £1k, but if I only get paid £800 a mOnth we are way off. Effectively dh has been funding the shortfall.)

I can't believe I have been so out of touch with our finances and feel like some 1950s housewife who is totally oblivious. Which I guessbi have been.

Logically I would argue that we need to downsize to a more affordable home, or dh should change his car to one the tyres don't cost 300 a pop. But dh says that at present we can afford to do all this because he paying for it- and therefore we should stay at the present system where we split monthly household costs 50/50 and he funds everythin else, I am getting a good deal and I just need to suck it up and be wiser with the cash I do have.

If we have system as he suggests, and additionally where I grow a pair and start telling him when i need to buy the things I need- of course not taking the piss, is this a good one? I am struggling to feel my way around this and could so with some assistance to deconstruct this!

Thanks in advance.

The things you say he does with the kids are the "nice" bits, e.g. taking them to football, bath and bed. Even the crappest dad usually likes those bits.

The real question is, did/does he do the horrible bits? Settling after a tantrum, discipline, changing nappies, cleaning up sick, early mornings, getting up in the night?

The counselling for you is a v good idea - put it under the household expenses and deduct it from your contribution to the account (under SCOTT's method).

Denial isn't just a river in Egypt. There's no way to work out anything in this sham of a marriage because it's emotionally and financially abusive.

I really feel for your kids.

Also, helping at DC's training sessions looks good to other people and is done in public.

With respect to your concern about your DH's materialism rubbing off on the kids, think that much more of a worry is that they may think that the way he's treating you every day is how men should treat the women they live with

sansa, that's quite harsh, do you have any positive suggestions for the OP?

I cant see any option for Red other than to move on with her life without this incredible selfish excuse for a man. :(

There's nothing positive about living with an abusive partner or spouse, Dozer.

I think it's commendable of you, TRS, to want to work this out. You sound sweet-natured and loyal but, to be brutal, I think he's been taking advantage of these very things.

Agree with clam. You sound lovely, and FWIW very good with money ( it's taken me 15 years of working life to have a year's salary in savings: I'm very impressed that you managed to save to cover your maternity leave), and your H is taking horrendous advantage of you, using money to control you and not valuing your non-financial contributions.

"for richer, for poorer"
doesn't mean
"him richer and you poorer"

I earn 4x what my DH did before he became a SAHD does that give me a right to 4x as much disposable income each month?

Tails- I don't want to play him at his own game. How can I tell him he's being unfair to me and then do the same back? He would just throw that at me anyway as a reason why I was being unreasonable. I haven't got much in this in his eyes, but I do have moral high ground.

I do think he's a bit worried now though. Told him earlier that I was going to counselling alone- he hates the thought of me discussing this with someone else- but of course won't come because "I don't need someone else to tell me what to think" (yeah right mr ego, that's exactly what they do ).know trying to persuade me not to go, we don't need it etc. Must stay focused!

Well you can retort, I do need it because I cannot understand your attitude towards me and the dc regarding home workload and money.

And if he is so sure he is right then he wouldnt be worried about you going to counselling. My ex was so confident that I was in the wrong about everything that he actively encouraged me to go as he was sure that the counsellor would tell me I was being unreasonable and should be grateful. Of course she didnt, and we split up!

The fact that he is worried tells me that deep down he knows he is being a selfish wanker and doesnt want someone else confirming that.

In fact when he tries to talk you out of it perhaps you could say "If you are right and I am wrong then you have nothing to worry about have you?" and see what he says.

Does he mean you (plural) don't need it, or you (singular) can't afford it, salamander?

I think, as others have alluded to, if you shared what you did that comes under the heading of 'taking the piss on personal purchases' you would find a fairly different interpretation of that here. Not because we know better but because it seems pretty that obvious that, for all you defend him, your DH has a strange sense of right and wrong when it comes to money. Whether he does it consciously or not, who can say. But it seems pretty clear that the reason he has a substantially different lifestyle from you now is his willingness to pull off a stunt like declaring his intention only to part-fund one or other of the wedding and the house purchase, after the wheels had been set in motion. Why aren't those costs being offset against current income and expenditure? Why isn't the loan? Either you are both self-financing or you are not. It seems at the moment he wants it both ways, to his own advantage.

What jumps out at me from your posts, is it seems that your happiness isn't terribly important to him. Do you think that would be a fair thing to say?

thered - he knows he's being unfair to you, he just doesn't care because he has everything on his terms.

If you do as I suggest then you will shift the balance of power in your favour.

He had been taking advantage of your good nature and desire to play fair for years.

If you do as I suggest, you will be making things way more fair.

You would still have the moral high ground (which hasn't done you much good over the last 17 years), because you would be taking his logic and applying it to both of you.

The thing that is most fucked up here is that there is an endless shifting double standard that you are always on the wrong side of.

You've said he won't agree to pool resources, so if he won't, then force him into doing separate finances fairly.

If you ever want to convince this man (this big bully) of anything, you need to stick up for yourself.

Rational arguments won't work, because he has gaslighted you to the point that you are completely unable to cope with him on that playing field. And he knows it.

That's why he's so keen that you never tell anyone else. Because he knows well that if other people point out his bullshit for what it is, he'll lose some if his power over you.

Also, importantly, my way you will have disposable income. And that is something you need.

How would he respond if you were to tell him that you are really struggling to see how you can continue in a marriage where you are a second class citizen and with someone who seems to care so little about your feelings on important matters. By all means say that you want to be able to, but that he needs to help you out here, by communicating properly and giving proper consideration to your point of view.

Oh my god have just read this thread and I'm speechless.

I'm so sorry OP.

Have you considered billing him for childcare and housework?

Fucking arsehole

'What jumps out at me from your posts, is it seems that your happiness isn't terribly important to him. Do you think that would be a fair thing to say?'

I think that's a very important question.

TRS how are you feeling today? I hope you are managing okay.

Dreaming- thanks for thinking of me!

Things are progressing between us but my head is in bits. I really don't know what to think.

My heard is beating too fast all the time, my stomach is in a knot and I can't eat (I can't eat! Unimaginable)

Think I'm going to "let it breathe" for a while. Am going to see if my bezzy friend who lives miles away is about this weekend and if I can stay a night. Just need some space to think about it all, and she is good at cutting trough the crap!

I do think my happiness is important to him. However he's poor at empathising and so it takes me to point out how I might be feeling before it twigs - I can literally see the penny dropping in his brain. Hes also very prone to get stuck in a rut thought wise- he goes over and over the same points in his brain, convincing himself of a particular thing without discussing it with anyone. I've often wondered if he's on the mild end of the autistic spectrum.

Oh that sounds like a good plan! That's what best friends are for

Try to take deep breaths throughout the day. Can you do some nice things for yourself, little things like a hot bubble bath, or some time listening to music or something? Anything that will help you relax. Sorry I know that might sound corny but you need to take care of yourself.

I hope you will keep talking to us if it helps. I can imagine it's been a bit overwhelming but I hope you know we are all writing because we care about you and don't want to see you hurt, so please let us know if we can help

Hi TRS, I'm so sorry for you reading this thread. Money problems in a marriage are a nightmare, but this sounds like it's a symptom of something so much deeper. I kind of think that where someone's money is is where their heart is, or vice versa, and this man is giving you nothing - it's all for him. He comes first, puts himself first, not you and the children, or else he would see your non-monetary contribution for the value that it is and be happy to provide for you.

I don't have any suggestions because this isn't about your finances - it seems like it's about your whole relationship. I hope you get some help :(

sorry x-post!

That's very interesting... does he have similar problems with other people, like his family?

I think that makes it even more important that you try out some counseling. I can see why that would make everything more confusing and difficult, and it would be good to get some professional judgment on your husband's behaviour.