What's fair? Working out finances in our marriage

[theredsalamander]

ive had some fab support and feedback in this thread here and dh has agreed that we should split our finances in a more equitable way.

We have sat down and added together what our joint household expenditure is, so all household costs eg car fuel heating building maintenance car repairs water insurances the lot. Previously cars were indiv expenses.

Tbh it has scared the bejeezus out of me because for the first time I can see what dh has been funding out of his wages without any input from me and it's A LOT. They are the irregular costs that aren't calculated monthly and so don't go out on a monthly direct debit, for example car insurance or tax.

We are living a lifestyle which my wage cannot hope to contribute fairly to -if we split our contributions to joint account proportionally based on our incomes the maximum I could put in as my share still wouldn't be enough. (eg if total coat is 3k, my share might be worked out to £1k, but if I only get paid £800 a mOnth we are way off. Effectively dh has been funding the shortfall.)

I can't believe I have been so out of touch with our finances and feel like some 1950s housewife who is totally oblivious. Which I guessbi have been.

Logically I would argue that we need to downsize to a more affordable home, or dh should change his car to one the tyres don't cost 300 a pop. But dh says that at present we can afford to do all this because he paying for it- and therefore we should stay at the present system where we split monthly household costs 50/50 and he funds everythin else, I am getting a good deal and I just need to suck it up and be wiser with the cash I do have.

If we have system as he suggests, and additionally where I grow a pair and start telling him when i need to buy the things I need- of course not taking the piss, is this a good one? I am struggling to feel my way around this and could so with some assistance to deconstruct this!

Thanks in advance.

oh poor you. I remember you. You posted a thread ages ago in despair as you did not know how you could save up enough money to fund your maternity leave, as you would still have to contribute as much to the family pot whilst on maternity leave as when working full time.

I thought so then, and I think so still: Your husband is a serious piece of shit, and you would be well rid.

:( I think its time to take some legal advice.... And for me to say this is pretty major as I hate solicitors with a vengeance. This situation can NOT continue!!!

Sorry, should not have said 'beg'.
You cannot afford shoes for work and had to put them on your Christmas list. He gets angry if you spend 'too much' on clothes for the children - HIS children. Meanwhile he has bought himself a fancier car than his last one. Which was a Porsche.

He promised to love you and cherish you. He promised to share all his worldly goods with you.

You put shoes on your xmas list! You saved up for your mat leave so he wouldn't have to take up the slack, bloody hell, he really is a charming piece of work, talk about laughing all the way to the bank. And as someone has said, it's not YOUR loan, it is a loan that needs to be paid, a loan HE racked up.
Tell you what, this thread really makes me appreciate dp who would never utter the words 'you owe me'.....

Re: the loan on her previous thread salamander stated "About 50% debt accumulated whilst dh was student and I was sole breadwinner before dc and careers- not suggesting that all of this was household stuff, but more importantly I paid because he had no means to."

You, well more like he, need to have a lifestyle that is within your means. He is spending far too much money and that is the reason why you are having to contribute more than he can afford.
Him proving that he spends more than you does NOT make the situation ok. He needs to spend less so that you do not have to go without shoes. This is really really simple maths and if he can't grasp that then he is a bit thick.
He is selfish, and once again, is putting himself before his family.
Instead of looking at family finances and deciding that you can afford it because he is paying for it, it should be that you can't afford it because actually you are paying more than you can afford towards essentials. If he was paying a fairer share towards essentials he would not have all this money left over to spend on expensive car stuff. He really needs to join the real world.
Do not let him fob you off with this as an excuse.

Actually I have missed a few pages of this thread.
I have changed my mind. What you really need to do is divorce him. Get what you are entitled to. Once he has to pay you child support he will not be enjoying his fancy car anyway as he will be giving 20% of his income to you. As a single parent you would probably be entitled to some tax credits and childcare help.
And even if it is very tough financially, at least you will not have someone wasting money you can't afford on your behalf and treating you like shit.
Either he sorts out the finances and reconsiders using your income to fund a lavish lifestyle that only he seems to be benefitting from (he has fancy car, you can't afford shoes or a new pack of pants) or he fucks off.

Also a man that expects his wife to "budget" for maternity leave and save up enough to contribute half, and a man who does not include clothes and stuff for his children in his monthly budget for the joint account is not really one that gives a stuff about his kids by the sound of it.
Selfish selfish wanker.

In the short term, thered, this is what you do:

1 calculate 1/3 of necessary household expenditure (do not include insurance, tax, or maintenance for a Porsche etc)

2 subtract your monthly loan payment

3 put that figure and not a penny more into the joint account

4 if you the joint account is short at the end of the month tell him you can't afford to put in any more, and as the higher earner he will need to contribute from his "savings". You have no savings, so are tapped out. (say this no matter how much money is in your private account, and never give him access to the account.)

5 if this happens repeatedly tell him he is clearly living beyond his means and will need to cut back

6 meanwhile, try to save a little bit of cash for when you eventually leave this horrible bastard

Basically, use his fucked up logic against him.

If you saved up 9 months of salary to cover your maternity leave - you are AMAZING with money. I am pregnant and have not saved an extra penny so far!

If he didn't contribute to that ML - then he robbed you of several months of salary - how did he justify not contributing at all? He kept all his salary as normal - you had to find 9 months extra salary for the time you were off - taking care of his child!

You had to 'plead' with him to go part time - despite the fact that he lives a frivolous materialistic lifestyle, beyond his means?

he is watching you suffer and struggle, while living the high life - as someone said, it is irrelevant that he can afford those things - he can only afford them because you are paying MORE than you can afford to basic household expenses. He won't cut back so that you can have spare cash - he is a total arsehole.

What are his redeeming features? Please don't say he is a great dad - he isn't if he treats you like this, doesn't value child care and has no respect for family life.

Good luck - please stay angry. Remember, this isn't all about money as I'm sure he would like you to believe. It's about love - and caring for your partner. And wanting them to share your life, your lifestyle and your happiness. And being passionate about making sure they live the best life they can, alongside you. Not watching them plead to go part time to take care of your child because you want the money for fast cars.

Oh, and if he complains, or questions your new approach, you say:

"Darling, you've won. I am now convinced that you are right that it is best we maintain entirely separate finances. In keeping with that, I do not have to discuss this with you."

I don't say this lightly, but I really think you should get a divorce

A number of us have said this -- how do you feel when you read this? Is it something you would consider? If not, what is keeping you from doing it?

I don't believe a man who acts like this could honestly care about you or your children, and that's a terrible way for them to grow up.

The most charitable interpretation of what you've posted so far is that your husband is exceptionally selfish and immature with a mental age of about 12 e.g. 'ladies have babies, I'm not a lady so why should I pay?? I like my car, vroom, vroom...'

A decent grown-up man would take pride in being able to support his partner and children, not begrudge it to them.

Here is one practical thing you could do to beat him at his own game, if you don't want to go for the more realistic option of divorce: you say you paid the deposit on the house that you now jointly live in from the proceeds of your own house sale? Why not remortgage with the bank to withdraw a chunk of that equity and let him 'owe you' the difference on the mortgage payments, which he can pay in monthly to the joint account? It's your money and you're entitled to it back, now that you're earning less temporarily. If the bank won't agree to a remortgage, just calculate what the additional mortgage would be per month and let him pay that over to you in instalments. Throw in the cost of childcare and supporting him when he was a student (with interest) and then see how he likes that.

It seems that when he earns less you pick up the slack.
When you earn less, he will not pick up the slack.

He runs a Porsche?

And you funded your own maternity leave out of your own personal savings, having paid the deposit on your house for him?

And he hated you reducing to p/t work because of the lack of earnings, but has never taken his fair share of domestic work?

You know what? He is
Mean
Manipulative
Arrogant
Selfish
Lazy
and
Very sexist.

How dare he not trust you as a financiual partner? You were the one with equity in a house to contribute to your house.

Your anger is the best thing I have seen on these 2 threads, TRS.l

Would he agree to counselling together?

I think he used to run a Porsche. He has now up-graded!

What a tosser! Would life be harder without him?

Don't go to counselling with him - he abusive and manipulative. It won't work other than potentially giving him another stick to beat you with.

Go on your own. And confide in a friend. You need people on your side (and yours alone) who can see his crap for what it is.

I just feel so sad about how you had to finance your own maternity leave. To put it in perspective, this is how we handled it. We sold my car (paid for from our joint account), and I went back to work when that money ran out. My job was in a completely different direction to DH's, so I drove his company car to work and he either cycled in (10 miles each way) or arranged lifts from colleagues when the weather was too bad. He used up a lot of 'favours owed' then. My DH bore the brunt of my maternity leave. That's what good men do.

It's not unreasonable for the costs of running a car to come out of the family pot - but the costs of a runabout or an ordinary family car, not the costs of a fuckoffbloatedegofuckwit car.

Clam - oh, I see! Upgraded to what? To what ridiculous extent of dick-on-wheeldom?

Just re-read this:
"I made the joint account go overdrawn regularly with personal purchases a good while back. I was not a good financial partner."

So, those "personal purchases." Are we perhaps talking about things like shoes for work, and that maybe the joint account went overdrawn because he was refusing to put in sufficient money because he deemed that you weren't?
And you're not a "financial partner." You're his WIFE.

He is not a good financial partner though is he?
He is putting his dickhead car in front of paying to heat the house.
I bet your "personal purchases" were nothing like on the scale of his!

The injustice is so clear to everyone reading this, you need to find a way to demonstrate it to dh so that he really understands it.

Your incomes were equal before children and now dh earns three times yours.

You supported him through training, you took time off for maternity leave, you worked p/t to be there for the children. This has cost you in terms of career prospects, earnings and presumably potential earnings.

He has gained a family and his career has taken off so that he now earns three times more than you. This is because you have provided the financial/emotional/practical support for him to retrain and then to be a full-time working father with serious career to focus on and no need to worry about household and childcare chores.

Make sure your DH understands that as a woman with a family the chances are that your income will be much lower in future than it could have been if you hadn't had children - because you have lost time through mat leave and part-time working that would be hard to regain. You have to get through to him that as a family you have to deal with this and accept that money has become more "joint" since then and that the way things are working now are not fair to you. I am assuming here that your lifestyle is sustainable if you share your current joint incomes fairly.

Ask your DH for an opportunity to demonstrate that you have changed when it comes to spending money. Discuss an acceptable budget for each of you for hobbies/clothes/going out/gifts/being frivolous - and make sure you show him you can stick to this - review every month for a while to see whether the level is right.

I must admit I feel a tiny bit sorry for your DH when I hear everyone's anger on here. I do think the financial organisation is odd and unfair, but you haven't really addressed it with him in 17 years - you need to at least attempt to open his eyes to the problems before racing to the divorce courts. I am imagining that he must have lots of good qualities that mean he's good to stay with. If you're struggling to see any then I take it back and he's just a meany!