What's fair? Working out finances in our marriage

[theredsalamander]

ive had some fab support and feedback in this thread here and dh has agreed that we should split our finances in a more equitable way.

We have sat down and added together what our joint household expenditure is, so all household costs eg car fuel heating building maintenance car repairs water insurances the lot. Previously cars were indiv expenses.

Tbh it has scared the bejeezus out of me because for the first time I can see what dh has been funding out of his wages without any input from me and it's A LOT. They are the irregular costs that aren't calculated monthly and so don't go out on a monthly direct debit, for example car insurance or tax.

We are living a lifestyle which my wage cannot hope to contribute fairly to -if we split our contributions to joint account proportionally based on our incomes the maximum I could put in as my share still wouldn't be enough. (eg if total coat is 3k, my share might be worked out to £1k, but if I only get paid £800 a mOnth we are way off. Effectively dh has been funding the shortfall.)

I can't believe I have been so out of touch with our finances and feel like some 1950s housewife who is totally oblivious. Which I guessbi have been.

Logically I would argue that we need to downsize to a more affordable home, or dh should change his car to one the tyres don't cost 300 a pop. But dh says that at present we can afford to do all this because he paying for it- and therefore we should stay at the present system where we split monthly household costs 50/50 and he funds everythin else, I am getting a good deal and I just need to suck it up and be wiser with the cash I do have.

If we have system as he suggests, and additionally where I grow a pair and start telling him when i need to buy the things I need- of course not taking the piss, is this a good one? I am struggling to feel my way around this and could so with some assistance to deconstruct this!

Thanks in advance.

The only proportion when you are a family unit are 50:50

all the money goes in the same pot

all the bills come out of the same pot

all the pleasure comes out of the same pot

the £300 tyres example is a red herring - tyres don't need changing that frequently

It is not a red herring. It is an example of the double standards enjoyed by the OP's husband.

seriously this man is from the dark ages and needs to realise he lives in the 21st century as a family

their is no mine and yours, it's ours

I don't understand your DH's response. He has been paying for additional stuff which he hasn't been telling you about, fine good.

What still matters is the inequality - how much money does he have in his account and in savings ? If he has a reasonable amount then the arrangement is not fair

Out of interest what do you do when the DCs need things like clothing, which budget does this come from?

From your post OP its clear that you are keen for the relationship to go back to "normal" but like Pandoras box I don't think that is possible.

Perhaps a middle ground is to suggest that you stick to the current arrangement for now but you get to know how much money in is his account?

I understand his response:

"shit, she's onto me. Better come up with some complicated sums to make it seem like this whole situation is fair. No fucking way am I giving up control of my money to her.

this doesn't make sense to me at all. as far as i can see there's two ways to do this..

either:
a) all income goes into the pot, all outgoings go out, and what's left is split 50/50. this is best imo when there are children (p.s children's stuff count as outgoings before the split and DO NOT come out of your money)

or

b) you pay proportionally, this is what dh and i do pre-children. he earns 50% more than me and he pays 50% more of the outgoings than me. this approach CANNOT leave you needing to pay more than you earn. it's impossible as it's in proportion to your earnings.

for e.g. if you earn £10k and he earns £30k then he pays three times what you do. so outgoings are divided into four and he pays 3/4 and you pay 1/4. if you can't afford 1/4 then either you're both spending more than you earn jointly or he's not reporting the outgoings accurately.

OP, your 'D'H is manipulating figures to make it seem like he is making all the sacrifices. Get wise to this. Call his bluff. Get a financial adviser in - picked from Yellow Pages or something, so as to ensure independence. Make him bring in his pay slips/bank statements, and bring in yours. Bring all your direct debits for utilities etc. If you can bring in proof of what you are spending on the DCs' clothes etc. He needs to do the same in terms of his £300 tyres etc. Put it all on the table. The fact remains that you earn less than he does, and so contributions should be according to income. You should both be paying the same percentage of your income into the household pot, not the same amount.

Your H is pulling a fast one, don't, don't, don't, don't let him .

I agree with all those who've said he's pulling a fast one with the maths - it doesn't work, and others above have explained why not. Also, really importantly, he's not valuing your domestic contribution at all - he gets to keep "his" money which you've enabled him to make by taking primary responsibility for the house and children.

Fundamentally it looks from this as though he wants to keep you with no disposable income - he won't downsize to a lifestyle that you can afford, and he also won't share the money more fairly. Is that the action of a loving partner? I can't imagine being willing to put DH in a position where he had to be dependent on my generosity to buy himself a pair of shoes!

So much advice and opinion here, thank you. I am posting quickly- will read properly in a bit but wanted to check in x

OP, you could ask him what would the scenario be for him with our circumstances?

1. DH & I got married - both working full-time (me earning a little less than him but not a lot less). I brought proceeds of my sold house to the marriage. He brought house plus small amount in savings.

2. Had first DS, then another. I stayed off as SAHM for 7 years until DS2 started school.

3. When DS2 started school my first job was part-time - so not bringing in anywhere near as much money to the house as DH, but was looking after DSs before and after school, doing school run, most of housework on my day off etc.

4. DH became disabled and was forced to retire. Now, I had full-time job, he only had DLA and small pension. He now does most of housework, cooking, shopping etc.

Should we both have contributed 50%?

In actual fact, what we have always done (I posted this on your other thread) is:

All money earned outside the home goes into a joint account and pays for all joint expenses, no matter who earns the money. We make joint decisions about large purchases and what we consider to be a joint expense. We each have a pocket money account that exactly the same amount goes into. This amount increases or decreases according to how solvent we are - but we make a joint decision about this.

We have been married for 23 years and it has worked well for us with absolutely no disputes about money in all of that time. He "manages" the household finances in that he keeps track of everything. But he tells me what is going on regularly and we always make joint decisions about savings etc.

This is called a marriage, I think!

What I am getting at is that your DH could have a severe accident tomorrow and end up unable to work. Then he would become dependent on you being able to work, with only a small amount in benefits for him. Would he think that a 50% contribution is reasonable then?

Total outgoings include mortgage savings food utilities kids clothes childcare car cost (average) fuel, the lot. dh had been paying a great deal of the non monthly costs himself, eg car insurance (one lump sum annually). He normally does this but I wouldnt expect him to guarantee that he will- some times he will offer to pay because if I can't but sometimes he won't and I will have to owe him the money, normally i pay him back a bit a month.

So there were a lot of costs which are joint but hadn't featured in the joint account. Hence now that we have looked at all of the joint outgoings, they are a lot higher than I'd realised. and so to split the coats proportionately (I earn 30% of the money so i will put in 30% of the monthly outgoings) I'm actually going to need to put in more than I do at the moment. Because I'm currently paying for half of about 40% of the joint costs.

All kids stuff, clothes clubs etc, cOmes out of the joint account. Problem is that because we don't budget for this- I either put it through the joint account and tell him that it's going to be short, which puts him in a right shit of a mOod because I'm spending when we don't have the money in the account (if it's going to go overdrawn we split what we need to put it into order), or I pay for it myself to avoid him getting cross with me.

Eh????

But if you don't earn enough to cover 30% of the joint costs that is just stupid.

Far better that all the money is pooled, it sounds like you need all the money you both have to cover all of the joint costs. You need a joint budget and a small allowance each of "treat" money

If you had zero income would he expect you to not spend any money?

You have to pay him back for your car insurance? That'll be insurance for the car you have to use to ferry his children around in?

FGS, I don't get any of that he pays/I pay/% this and that. How does it pan out if you BOTH put ALL your wages into a pot and pay everything that needs paying. Is there any left over then?

And you also do 50% of the childcare yourself!

Look - if you are contributing 100% of your salary and have not a penny of disposable left for yourself for anything, and he is contributing whaatever % of his salary but has money that he spends on him, himself and him, then the arrangement is not fair, or right.

He has befuddled you with figures.

Sorry, but you are completely missing the point Red. When I earned twice what my DH did, by your reckoning, I should have contributed 2/3 of the costs and he should have contributed 1/3. But I didn't. I contributed more like 85% and he put in 15%. This is because these are the proportions which would ensure we each had the same amount left for our personal use each month once all the bills were paid.
The money we both earned was family money, not "my" money or "his" money.
I certainly didn't begrudge him that and the idea that he should "owe" me money if we were short for something in a month is preposterous.
Now that I am not working, and he is earning 100% of the money, he pays all the bills and gives me half of what is left, so we both have the same amount to spend on stuff. When it comes to buying children's clothes/school trips etc, it's just whoever is to hand that pays.
We don't keep tabs and we certainly would never even entertain the idea that one of us should have nothing while the other is rolling around in disposable income.

And, sorry, but he gets in "a right shit of a mood" if you are buying clothes etc for your children?
Surely you can see how fucked up this is? Do you really think other people live like this? No, of course they don't.
Normal married couples pool their resources so that everyone's needs are taken care of and what is left over is divided equally. That is whether they have equal incomes, one earns 10 times what the other does, or one earns while the other stays at home full time.
Seriously, stop all this "I have to pay 1/3 of outgoings because I earn 1/3 of the money" nonsense. You and he should have equal amounts of disposable income after all the household expenses are taken care of. If that means he pays 90% of the bills, then that is how it should be.

You supported him when he was studying
You have taken off time to raise his children
You are entirely responsible for your children
You do all the cleaning
You do all the laundry
You do all the shopping
You do all the cooking

And all of that is overlooked with his pathetic 'sums'.

Your husband is an utter arse - a controlling, bullying, narcissist. I'm sorry to have to say that but he is gaslighting you to such a massive extent that you don't know which way is up. I assume you've been together for 15-20 years from your other thread and he's done a fabulous job on you over time to make you think that you're actually insane for suggesting that his way of doing things is unfair. And it is. Grossly, stupidly, insanely.

I don't normally recommend this, but have you shown him this thread?

And just to be clear - the money is just a manifestation of the way he treats you, it isn't the root.

I don't think I've read a sadder thread on here in ages :(

It sounds like you need a reasonable budget for what you spend, ie the food shop, kids clothes etc so you can show him that you are responsible with money.

He is being really odd if he thinks you should contribute 30% because you earn 30% of the money. How about you work full time and him work part time and you keep all your disposable income, what would he think of that?

I dont understand how these numbers can possibly stack. So I can only conclude he is bamboozling you here.

Gawd, if I was to do this, it would leave my dp with no disposable! We are a partnership so, as others have said, it goes in a pot. I work longer hours (or if he gets overtime weekend work, he does work more, but he earns less), he looks after the kids more and does the lions share of house tasks (I have had to relax my standards a bit ).