Leaving an emotionally abusive relationship - my story

[preciouslittlegems]

Sorry, this is long! I'm just not sure what to think about a conversation I had earlier with DH. He was not joking and this is set in the context of a relationship that has broken down and we no longer share a bedroom. He is bitter as he wants things to return to the way they were, for us both to compromise. I don't want to because he has been quite severely empotionally abusive and I don't want to get emotionally involved with him again, as I feel it is not a good place for me to be. I am being supported the local DV service because of the abuse. I am finding it really hard to leave the relationship because I don't know how he will react and today's conversation has made me even more uncertain (he has also threatened to kill himself many times).

I was preparing dinner with a sharp knife. He came up to me and told me not to stab him with it (he said the same thing last week). I took it as a joke and replied I'm not in the habit of killing people. He, speaking quite seriously, told me that he often thinks about killing people and asked if I do. I said no, of course not. He said he was surprised given the state of our relationship. He said he thinks less about stabbing people and more about suffocating and poisoning people. He said he lays awake at night thinking about it a lot. I was stunned at this point but decided to find out more. I asked if there was any one in particular he thought about killing (I could see where this was heading) and he said it was me he thought about, in particular poisoning. I calmly told him that he would go to prison and he said only if found out. I told him that he would be a prime suspect and he then went on a bit about things I do that upset him, including sharing with family and friends things he would rather I didn't (the abuse). I asked how he planned to poison me he said he wouldn't tell me because I would run off and phone someone and tell them. I asked if that was the only reason he wouldn't tell me, as I would not have a clue how to poison someone. He said that I have no idea what he knows and that he knows a lot more than I realise.

I sound very calm above but I don't feel it. This has freaked me out and is the reason I don't leave as I am unsure what he is capable of. He has mentioned poison to me a few times, e.g. told me there is poison in my cup of tea he has made me as he hands it to me (for no reason).

Am I being paranoid? Should I laugh it off? Am I unable to take a joke? He was definitely not joking but if I asked him about it again or involved other people, he would say I couldn't take a joke. He regularly makes really nasty comments to me. Since the incident he has been in a bad mood and barely talked to me apart from to shout a bit and criticise various things I have done and the state of the house.

I would just value any views. Do you think he has said this to frighten me to behave and be a proper wife again and not leave, or is there something more sinister to worry about? I feel this is the last straw but I am scared. I feel trapped.

Exactly, ILT, and I am relieved to know that at least one other mumsnetter understands my use of the term 'common and garden sociopath of the everyday variety'.

These men and (relatively few) women frequently live their lives undetected and undiagnosed. If you are not living with one, there will be one or more amongst your friends, family, colleagues, neighbours etc.

Currently, the OP is caught up in a whirl of legal proceedings and is receiving support from dv workers but, sooner or later, her case will be deemed to be at an end, files will be closed, everyone involved will have moved on other clients - and she will be on her own.

At that time, and possibly for years to come, the OP will be vulnerable. I am therefore seeking to empower her in order that she can safeguard herself and her dc from a spouse who may be sociopathic and who may have psychopathic traits.

It should be noted there is no treatment for antiscocial personality disorders which were once described as 'insane without delirium'. Talking therapies are ineffective and have been known to provide sociopaths and psychopaths with the skills to become more manipulative.

FTR, if I did not possess professional knowledge and experience of dv and personality disorders I would not presume to advise the OP or any other individual(s) who may be at risk of harm.

I doubt that the OP would recognise her spouse from the example you have provided garlic, and a cut and paste response on the complex subject of personality disorders and emotional abuse is inappropriate given the seriousness of her situation.

So it's okay for you to write that he's a sociopath, Izzy, and to query other people's use of the term outside of a diagnostic setting, but not to consider the actual diagnostic criteria? Interesting.

I'm hiding this thread now because I think you're being irresponsible and, in this scenario, it upsets me. Fortunately precious seems to have her wits about her and some real DV advisors on her side.

Hey ladies...it was my fault this 'psychopath' label came up...so I am putting in my 5 pence too

Right the way I see it this man was not responding to hallucinations they were clear thoughts he had of what he wanted to do....he showed no delusions either....no thoughts he was someone in high/being persecuted position etc he actually is aware that he has issues with 'bosses' over him work...this can be seen as an issue with authority.
He has been manipulating his wife and says she is crazy...turns it on her.

He has thoughts of poisoning his wife then no remorse or empathy to how much he has upset his wife by saying he wants to kill her ...but very calm when she leaves!!! This is classic psychopathic response. This is not a delusion!
He has had a thing for porn...looks like he still has as hides his history on the computer.
He is a loner can't make relationships past 'client' level.....

Here is the symptoms for psychopath..
glibness/superficial charm
grandiose sense of self worth

need for stimulation/prone to boredom
pathological lying

conning/manipulative
lack of remorse or guilt

shallow emotional response
callous/lack of empathy

parasitic lifestyle
poor behavioral controls

promiscuous sexual behavior
early behavioral problems

lack of realistic long term goals
impulsivity

irresponsibility
failure to accept responsibility for their own actions

many short term relationships
juvenile delinquency

revocation of conditional release
criminal versatility

I am not a psychiatrist but I have experience of psychopaths...their isnt a cure...intensive intervention and cbt make them worse...gives them more insight power I guess! Strict rules if you do A then B will happen and the law is the only answer!That's if they come in contact with the law if caught. Most are clever enough not to get caught.

Precious was extremely lucky her H shared his 'thaoughts' with her...as I said initially this saved her life!

'thoughts'

It appears that you have hijacked the OP's thread to attack and belittle me, garlic. Perhaps you are unable to separate your own experiences of living with a, presumably diagnosed, sociopath from those of the OP.

I would venture to suggest that the OP may recognise some of the traits in her spouse from the list you've provided sc, and from which the following is common to, but not limited to, socio and pscyhopathic behavour

Conning/manipulative
Lack of remorse or guilt
Shallow emotional response
Callous/lack of empathy
Failure to accept responsibility for their own actions

Of course, we may display one or more of the above 'symptoms' at various points in our lives or recognise them in others, particularly those closest to us - and especially after we've pointed out the error of their ways and they've failed to accept that they've erred

sociopath and psychopath disorder is one of a group of disorders Izzy that can overlap in symptoms.

After spending months looking into the difference of sociopath and psychopath...it appears the psychopath is far more dangerous and likely to kill...then you have different psychopaths paranoid, sadistic and classic.

The only thing that did make me think was that he told her...now a psychopath wont tell...some just do and take to the grave or after the act/murder....I do think though that he had the very strong impulse and he would have done somethig.

Precious after you are settled and over this I suggest you read Dr Hara's book 'Without Conscious' It will give you a lot of light bulb moments and if you can gain the insight you willbe more empowered into how to handle this condition.....for me it is like a game of chess. I have now checkmated in my situation (thankfully).

ILT that is really really awful but god it is so 100% a raged psychopath reacts....act dead and you will survive. Thank god you did this!!!

What the hell is going on here?

The last page of this thread - which up until then had been a supportive place is like a car crash.

I suggest that those who want to have some kind of pissing competition about psycological diagnosis start their own thread - maybe in _chat or just anywhere else really and leave this thread alone. The input has changed into academic arguments about whether the OP's DH would actually murder her? WTF? Talk about inappropriate.

Honestly, this is NOT cool.

ShirelyKnottage
Good post, I agree I really don't see how this is helping the OP

Yep, please can some people take their egos away elsewhere?

Precious, I hope you are feeling safe today, I keep thinking of you and hoping that you are OK.

Totally agree Shirley

Precious I hope all went well at the solicitors today and that you and the kids are ok.

Hey I was only clearing up why I called Precious ex a psychopath...and if you look at any website re surviving psycopathy/sociopathy it actually says the best way is for empowerment and to learn how and why the person behaves that way to not only protect themselves but be aware of triggers and general insight as it is a condition after all. So it does help to know what condition HIG as some women do return and as long as they are equiped to know how to manage the relationship better...it can actually work! Not that I am suggesting P returns.
It has helped my situation...how to protect myself espcially and this is what precious needs to do also. So don't really care if you label me a first yr psychology student....helps me understand why he does/did what he did...if it helps someone else too then that is only a good thing!

oh I'm sorry HIG

But honestly Robert Hara (he invented the psychopath checklist too!) I was told by another MN here who had psychopathic ex...it does empower you and help you deal with someone dangerous esp if you can't leave (like my case).

Precious H may well remorse and change his ways...their then could be chance that you can come back from this in the future. Time will tell?
All I know is a lot fab MNs here gave this woman the courage/help/support to get out safely and isn't that fantastic:) Well done all of you and most of all Precious

*From Izzywizzi: An application for an ex parte Order places the Judge in the position of having to determine whether to accept the word of the Applicant against that of a Respondent who has not been issued with prior notice of the proceedings and is therefore not in Court to respond.

Where an ex parte application is successful, an Interim Order may be granted pending return and final hearings which are usually listed to be heard within c28 days of the date of the interim order unless special circumstances apply.*
Yes its usually heard again within 7 days when the other party gets a chance to 'challenge it'. The initial order can be given for up to a year though and remains in place unless contested. If it is challenged then it goes to a contested hearing. That can take ages and throughout this time the original order stays in place and if the occupation order is found in favour of the applicant it carries on running for the original duration unless extended (though won't be more than a year I don't think).

So Precious could get an ex parte occupation (and yes Izzy its an occupation and not a non occupation...sorry my mistake) order that could keep her safe for quite some time. Even if her H contests it, I can't imagine they'd remove given what she's said here.

I certainly hope not, bh!

I trust that if any Orders that may be granted in precious's case are removed, it will be because the Court has required the Respondent to give, or he has voluntarily given, undertakings which will legally bind him to observe certain conditions.

I have known Courts to issue indefinite Orders but where they are of 6 or 12 months duration there is leave to renew although, of course, this may mean that a victim has to fund Court costs and may have to fund Counsel's/solicitors fees again... and again...

When it comes to dv, the law sometimes sucks

how did it go with the solicitor today Precious?

Izzy you're wrong. This is my situation and I live in England:
Exparte non mol and occupation granted (the terms of which are described in the order i.e not to go within 100m of house etc) and then second hearing heard 5 days later.
ExP defended it at the second hearing.
Judge said terms of order to remain in place until the contested hearing can take place for the judge to deem whether the order stays or not.

Should have said granted for 12 months at the initial hearing.

Hi. A quick post as my DM is waiting for me to call. The solicitors went as well as can be expected today. I hope I might be allowed to go back in the house in a week or so. We are also looking at residency etc. There are no guarentees, though. If the orders aren't granted I don't know what I shall do. Ravenous came with me and was very helpful and supportive. I need to write the statement tomorrow to support all applications. I also have a whole list of financial things to sort or I will have no money.

There's been some debate on here today! I've found it interesting but unsettling. Some of the questions and observations ring a very true. Izzy - your post in the early hours of this morning was an accurate observation of my H. i'm guessing you have professional interests in this. Serious - same too with your list later on. This is why I am so worried, as I have suspected more than just depression for a while. I never suspected anything so extreme as the conditions mentioned but did wonder about BPD.

In the meantime, H has been emailing me to seek marriage counselling and for me to help him be better. He has made lots of promises and apologised for the whole situation. I am not contacting him, as advised but I feel terrible. He must feel terrible, his life is falling appart. He is all alone in the house and has lost everything. I know it was his own doing but I just can't understand how it happened. How did I not see it all those years ago and how did he turn into this? I am feeling more upset today. I will not change my decision but this is not how a marriage should have been.

Hi Precious,

I hope you had some good input from your solicitor today. It can be really draining and demanding of your emotions to have to confront them in a legal manner. It ,eans that you are taking action, sometimes that can kick off more emotions in yourself that you didn't know it would.

Please take the advice from your solicitor with regards of making sure you have the right orders in place so that your DH cannot wheedle his way back into your life again. You've come this far, you can do this.

If you need a fire proof cover for your letterbox, I have one that fits over a standard type/shape/size. My best friend gave it to me last year when I was going through similar ordeals, it's yours if you want it. PM me and you can have it.

Big love and strength

Kingbeat - thank you so much. The lettersounds a great idea. I will work out 'PMing' later and get in touch. You cross posted on me being a bit wobbly emotionally - it is because of discussing all the legal techicalities today, like you say. It reduces all the love and emotion once felt to hard legal matters.

Wow, must have posted the same time that you did. I just want to add this after your last post.

You have the right to grieve your marriage. You have the right to feel sad that it is over. Please try and speak to a HV or Dr who may be able to give you some counselling with a specific group who will be able to help you understand what has happened, how it happened and why.

I was able to have 3 sessions with a DV educator and she helped me to realise it was not my fault, it is sad, but I am alive and well and have a beautiful DD who will grow and thrive.

X