In thinking my dh orally raped me?

[MsZ]

I was giving my dh a bj last night. I wanted to just come up for a breather (as you do!) and he pushed my head back down. Not a big deal, normally just his way of saying no don't stop now i'm nearly there

However i really needed to stop for a second and tried to lift my head again, quite hard to make it clear i wanted to stop. He forcibly held it down and i tried again pushing even harder but he still held me down :(

I then threw up all over him.

I know what he's done, so really i don't know why i am asking. I'm just numb. We've been together 10 years and he has never done anything like this or disrespected me in this way. Why now? I don't want to speak to any of my friends i feel so ashamed that i let him do this to me and that i don't have the guts to leave.

He know's what hes done too. Ive had begging texts and emails off him all night saying how sorry he is and how he can't believe he violated me.

I guess i just needed to tell someone, anyone, to get it off my chest.

Squeaky But the OP wasn't looking to have rough sex, yes it went too far, far enough to classed as rape in the eyes of the law.

This isn't normal behaviour.

Squeaky, even if someone consents at the beginning of a sexual act, if they later withdraw their consent then a crime has been committed if the person carries on regardless.
A woman squeezing her partners thighs would be highly unlikely to stop him pulling away if he wanted to. Unlike a woman whos head is being forced down.

Get a grip yourself worral. You are in permanent denial about the porn industry, because of your own consumption.

Do you think this was rape worral?

3 months is a start MsZ. It's enough to give out the message that you are serious about him getting help. I would even go so far as to tell him that I will make an appt with the forces GP to discuss his behaviour if he does not. I would also want to go to at least one of his counselling sessions as his behaviour impacts on you directly.

After 3 months, if you feel you need more time then take it. I should imagine that after 3 months, if he is regularly attending counselling sessions and giving you the space you need then you might think that after another 3 months he can move back in. However if he is hassling you and you feel stronger for not being with him, then you have 3 months to find somewhere else to live. In that instance I would contact the CAB to find out what my rights are. You may be entitled to be re-homed by the council.

Yes it will be a struggle, but at the end of it will be a better life for you, your children and also for your dh as he will have to grow up pretty darn quickly and perhaps, if you split up, his next partner may get an easier ride as he will have dealt with many of the issues affecting his behaviour - thanks to you.

Sorry for teaching you to suck eggs msz, I'm afraid I'm used to dealing with the younger element who aren't as clues up on the housing rules. Sorry if I offended you, you seem to know what's what.

Permanent denial about what?

That not all porn is bad?

That couples can and do enjoy viewing it?

That it's one of the most contentious topics on MN?

FWIW I personally don't see this as rape...but I do see it as totally unacceptable and down right out of order.

And yes, I'm well aware that in a court of law it would be viewed as rape by the prosecution and technicalities would be argued by the defence.

As I said...a very contentious topic....

Firstly OP, you need a huge un mumsnetty (((hug))).
If you are in the forces , that explains why you have no family support nearby, and yes i can understand you not wanting to talk to someone nearby, other wives, that would be very difficult and have a long term impact on what you want to do in the future.
Where abouts in the country are you. Maybe there is a kind MN or two nearby who you can talk to for support. We have an army training base in our village (Herts/Cambs area), but I doubt it would be coincedence enough to help you. Just give us an area and anyone local can PM you. You need to talk to someone for support.
I second all the others who've said he needs to leave for a while to give you time and space to think. In this time he must seek help for his problems and you must see evidence of this. In one way you are lucky, as the army will offer the support and not tolerate this kind of behavior. In civvy st, he may have to wait months for support/counselling. He must give you space and act now if he wants any chance of saving your marriage.

No worries LtEveDallas. Better to be over-informed than under. Not offended at all.

Can we all just agree to disagree on certain aspects of the OP's post and ask that further advice be given to address the OP and NOT to pick holes in each other's arguments?

The law is very clear but we all have our own opinions. We can't all be expected to agree but in a thread where the OP needs help I think we should respectful enough to either keep to the point or start a new thread. Otherwise you are just as guilty of violating the OP, by totally disregarding her feelings and continuing with your own agendas.

You're right Rhubarb

OP I'm going to bow out of this thread now because it appears to have gone down the predicable route the minute porn was mentioned.

I hope whatever you decide to do works out for the best for all of you.

Whatever happens, you need plenty of time and a clear head before you can make any decisions.

Good luck

Technicalities! Wtf do you think you are on about?

I despair at some posters on this thread.

Posters are mearly giving advice on how to minimise risk, not making light of what's happened.

The OP has the right to decide how to procede, she has stated that they both feel that the behaviour stems from his childhood abuse and want advice. She does not want to go to the police. She has previously had a good marriage and as yet does not want her life to drastically change, she just wants it to go back to how it once was.

Going to the police would impact on the OP's life in away that she doesn't want, her choice.

MY DH was at risk of violence from me when i had post natal depression but stood by me why i worked through it, it is what couples do, when there is valid reasons for the behaviour.

The fact is that someone with a background of childhood abuse should not be using porn nightly unless they have had help (not getting intio the porn debate), which he hasn't.

I think you should ask him to leave what he did was wrong and a complete violation of your body.

I've only read the first and last pages (which may or may not be a good thing).

My dh did this to me years ago. I wasn't full on sick but did have a little choke/throw up moment. I made it perfectly clear that I would never, ever accept that again and he has never done it again (but a bj is still one of his favourite past-times). That was (IIRC) 11+ years ago. He got carried away. Many people do, in many different circumstances and ways.

Also FWIW, he is a porn viewer. But he wasn't then. And our children have never discovered that he views porn and are unlikely to.

OP - as I say, I've not read all your posts, but only you can decide what to do. I don't blame you for feeling very hurt, angry, diminished, abused etc. But one incident in a long marriage (IME) = a mistake not a recipe for a future disaster.

I hope that you manage to work it out if that is what you want.

Hi again MsZ, sorry your thread went a bit menkul there, hopefully it's back on track now.

You said upthread "is this just the start and it will be all downhill from here? Don't they all say sorry and the op forgives them, then it happens again and bang you are stuck in a dv cycle. How do i know giving him the benefit of the doubt because of our time together without abusive behaviour is the right thing to do?"

You need to give yourself time to think this through I reckon. Certainly tonight, and why not take advantage of the 3 months you are 'allowed' to work through this. Could be that if he gets counselling you might feel able to trust him again. Or not. Either way you must make the right decision for you, not one coloured by your concern for him or guilt about your DCs. They will be happier if you are happy - staying put for them would not be doing them a favour if you are miserable or at risk of further abusive behaviour.

Is there any one person in RL you would feel safe talking to about this?

it is not one isolated incident -op said "He was seeking counselling because he cheated on me last year, he has issues from his childhood that have never been dealt with (sexual abuse and bullying) and yes the porn addiction."

it is an incident which has followed several other issues including adultery....

Which will teach me to try to not read the dross as I obv missed vital info from the OP.

Please ignore my post. My situation is obviously entirely different.

OP I hope you get the advice you need.

Have you told anyone in RL about the fact that your husband was unfaithful last year OP? Or about his porn addiction? You see, I think if you gave someone you really trusted the full context of what you have been putting up with for 2 years, you might get a different reaction than here, where a minority of posters seem to think this was understandable, not rape - and that you should instead receive advice about repairing your relationship.

I think you are in danger of having had so many knocks to your faith in him, you will become de-sensitised in the future, to yet another incident.

I often think it is only when someone in RL tells you "This is not okay, you don't have to put up with this" that you suddenly find your voice and your radar is re-calibrated. Is there anyone you could talk to about what has been happening in recent years - and what behaviour you have been normalising?

speak honestly with a good friend -or better still a trained counsellor - about all the issues - about everything that has happened in past two years (and more) altho it is your partner dealing with specific issues from childhood - you have also been dealing with them second hand as it were .

you need to put everything into context of something that is much broader - so you can take decisions

Oh love, this makes difficult reading.

I generally think whenever I see a thread that starts 'am I over reacting to what my DP did' that no, you're probably not.

If it feels wrong to you it is wrong.

End. Of. Story.

There isn't any need to justify or have it justified. Perhaps your need to question if you're being over the top worrying about something you didn't like says more about your relationship than you realise though.

I'm not on the leave him it's all over bandwagon, but I am firmly aboard the take your time to deal with your feelings bandwagon.

I'd also echo anyone who mentions anything about him suggesting he'll accept a ban on sex being pretty odd. It's not up to him to suggest what should make you feel better - slightly smacks of controlling to me.

Maybe you can really talk to each other, maybe with a counsellor? Maybe there are some things still unresolved from before?

Good Luck MrsZ

This isn't meant to be a gratuitous point - and please don't even think about answering it here - but you may wish to give some thought to his immediate reaction after you were sick. Did he stop as soon as you vomitted or did he keep going? Did he come? Because the answers to those questions may give you some insight into whether he genuinely was so close to orgasm that he was (entirely inappropriately) carried away, or whether he simply didn't give a fuck for your feelings.

OP you are not making a fuss over nothing. Nor should you have behaved differently, you tried to raise your head, normally he understands this.

You obviously regularly give him bjs and you knew this time was different. Your instincts tell you it was different, your body told you it was different - you threw up. The whole hands on the head thing is a total no for me anyway, it feels controlling. It does sound as if he has taken a cue from the porn thing. Whatever, it doesn't really matter why, he did it this to you. Whether its official 'Rape' or not is almost not the point. He violated you (and was quick to say so, porn fantasy?)

You are also someone who has gone through a lot with him already, and forgiven. You wouldn't feel like this if you weren't very uncomfortable and knew something was wrong. It sounds like you've been staying because its been easier, is this your last straw?

Trust your instincts.

Coupled with everything else he's done I wouldn't say it's worth having a relationship with him. Not that easy to choose of course :(