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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Support for those in emotionally abusive relationships 2

1000 replies

bigbuttons · 28/06/2011 06:45

try againHmm

OP posts:
BreakFree · 17/07/2011 10:53

Thanks Hissy. Yes he uses that one a lot . Ever since I first confronted him on his abusiveness towards me he has beltered that one around in his rows. Another thing he kept going on about yesterday and last night was how he fancied me and what was wrong with him wanting to have sex with someone he "loves" and fancies. What I feel or the fact that I am detatched and not interested obviously doesn't apply!
I am going to look throgh those links if I get a chance today.He must have drank himself stupid, 6 cans and a bottle of wine and (my duty free) vodka out on the table this morning. I believe thats supposed to make me feel bad that he had to drink to forget his problems or some crap now!

notsorted · 17/07/2011 11:05

BF,

throwing back the abuse stuff is par for the course and because it's so mixed up and he has made you doubt yourself then you start feeling guilty. See some of those Sam Vaknin videos, they had been straightened out in my thinking for a bit. I reckon you need to keep watching them til they get burned into your brain -- I'm going to find a mo to see some again today.
If you can, get out of the house, avoid, do things that make you unavailable so that subtly he can't get near just to reinforce the obvious spare room message. Go to bed at different times as well if possible.

HerHissyness · 17/07/2011 11:12

Did he just leave the booze/cans/bottles out then, did he not tidy them?

Tell him that his madness and abuse of alcohol is his problem and you don't think it appropriate for him to leave his mess for you to clear up, or worse for your DC to see. Tell him the next time he forces you to clear his rubbish into black bags, HIS BELONGINGS will be also be put into black bags on the drive.

Tell him that if he intends to allow himself to spiral into alcoholism, then to do it elsewhere. Remind him that HE is choosing to sabotage his own life, and that as you are now mentally detached, you don't actually care what he does, so he'll have a hangover and look even more of a TWAT than ever, and for nothing.

ZERO TOLERANCE

HerHissyness · 17/07/2011 11:13

good advice too from notsorted!

BreakFree · 17/07/2011 11:16

I'm 2mins 40 into that one now Hissy

and I'm nodding my head vigourously! His accent is hard to follow at times though!
BreakFree · 17/07/2011 11:24

Sorry didn't see both your replies there. Thought I was on my own this morning Smile
Only problem with the threatening to put his stuff into black bags is that he has NO FEAR of it. He actually laughs at me, then makes threats.
At one point a few months ago when we got into a fight I said I was leaving with the DCs It was before Christmas. His words?
"you take those DCS away from me and I will murder you"
He took it back the following day but it was sinister enough to leave a mark in my head. I truly wonder what anger he could be capable of. You never really know do you. I think he enjoys that power. He knows from physically fighting and showing me whos boss, by holding me down, throwing me onto the floor, grabbing my hair etc before that he is 5 times stronger than I am. I think he used to use that to keep me in line till I claimed that didn't scare me anymore and it hasn't happened since but there is always that possibility of course. Once he does it once he is capable.
His temper can flare from 0-60 in no time. I said last night when he was making excuses for his verbal abuse of me. "you make me do it the way you treat me" I said back "NO YOU CHOOSE TO HAVE CONTROL OVER YOURSELF TO SAY THOSE THINGS TO ME"
Its not like he says that to anyone else. Although. The other day apparently he had a run in with an official in the tax dept and called him an ignorant pig and swore at him because he pissed him off.

BreakFree · 17/07/2011 12:08

Also informative but I think it says it all there even though we are not permitted to diagnose ourselves I think I've a fairly good idea don't you?

BreakFree · 17/07/2011 12:32

I have a question. Have others found that their partners or exs have serious issues with your past. Jealous if you bring up a time before they were around. Jealous if you remember or fondly recall old times with friends before they met you? Always causes an arguement here because he always says why don't I go back to it if it was so good or the other one is "you hated that time in your life you used to complain about it when I came along first" As if he had saved me.

Trying to make a list here of what annoys me about him. I need help in what I need to include. I know some of you have done it and found it helpful . Any tips?
I think I'm on my own today Smile

MadameOvary · 17/07/2011 13:13

Breakfree - oh yes, X had HUGE issues with my past. As I put it:
"Others before you had written on my skin, your fury could not rub them out"

It is all part of the process of isolation and diminishing you as a person. He is uncomfortable with the idea of you having had a life before him (as all abusers are) as having any sort of life outside of him means that he is less in control.

If you had no ties to anyone in your past, no plans for the future with anyone but him, and no friends, he would find that perfectly acceptable I'm sure.

A non-abusive partner OTOH would be very uncomfortable with being the sole focus of your life, because he would not need to have that level of control or power over you.

MadameOvary · 17/07/2011 13:22

Please have a look at this Breakfree - it may help you Smile

Mouseface · 17/07/2011 15:41

Breakfree - re the past, my XP would ALWAYS say to me, 'well, if you don't like it you can always go back to XXX can't you?'

Usually after he raped or punched me when I'd be crying. Why do they do that? Do you think that they are threatened by the relationships that they had no control over?

My XP would point out places and say, 'I bet XXX shagged you in that hotel' or something similar. Nasty little jibes, all the time picking away at me, making me think I didn't deserve him. Made me feel lower that him.

He'd take me to hotels where he had been to cheat on me and the staff knew him. It never clicked with me at the time, I assumed they knew him through business.

He'd buy me clothes like his Xs and other women wore because he said he wanted me to look nice for his friends.

He also let his lodger watch him raping me one night. I had no idea that the guy was there until the next morning when the lodger asked XP if he could join in next time. I asked join in what and he told me he'd watched XP last night.

Thing is, when this sort of thing happened, he always made sure I was drunk or drugged up so that I was pretty out of it. Funny though, I remember it very clearly, every horrible detail. Sad

MadameOvary · 17/07/2011 16:35

Mouse - your X was a sadist and a psychopath. Truly dangerous to women. He would be a good candidate for what is discussed here

Mouseface · 17/07/2011 17:16

But unless women reported him/men, how would they be able to prove what he/they is/are like?

The police were called only once (by me and the neighbours) when he threw me out of the house, in my knickers, in the middle of winter, screaming at me with his hands around my throat.

The police sent a DV unit, who filmed the event, and a female PC, plus a van with three other male officers in. I was offered to be taken to hospital but refused so spent the night at my parent's.

After that, when I went back to him again, he sat me down telling me how sorry he was, how much he loved me, how much he needed me and then, just as I was starting to believe him, he slapped me so hard that I fell off my chair, and cracked me head against the wall, leaving a huge bruise.

He slapped me because the police wanted to go into the house to talk to him. He had drugs in the house, he'd paid good money for those drugs, they were for other people as well as him so he could have lost business....... and on it went.

How could I prove that he did that when it was often just us and would be his word against mine, even with the bruises?

Sorry, I'm not trying to say it's not a good idea, just not sure how it would work unless you/women could prove what their partner was like.

HerHissyness · 17/07/2011 20:15

Ditto here on the anger at past.

When I was 20/21, I spent 2 years in Brazil. I went out with one guy, and casually dated another one or two in the whole time I was there. I met X when I was 32. He found a box of letters from a friend of mine, other silly little things, letters, cards, photos and stuff.

He tortured me for years based on this info. That and the fact that I was married before - so was and (in fact still IS HE!) bothered him. I binned everything I could to remove the chance of the subject of brazil ever coming up, handbags/shoes I'd bought on holiday there, loads of CDs of the awesome Antonio Carlos Jobim etc. If we drove past a shop, or during the world cup, inm west london???, god help me if anyone was wearing a yellow, blue and green football shirt....

He would wake me up at 2am and insist I go and see the telly... and I'd get to the box only to find he'd dragged me there because some news report happened to mention favelas. I never lived in a favela (naturally!) I never even SAW one tbh. I lived in Sao Paulo, not Rio, and did nothing to hurt or upset a soul while there.

HerHissyness · 17/07/2011 20:16

I worry about that idea of DV reporting too.... emotional abuse, surely, is much more prevalent, and I doubt that'll get counted....

We still need to push for the whole Red Flags to be commonly recognised among women...

ItsMeAndMyPuppyNow · 17/07/2011 21:02

We still need to push for the whole Red Flags to be commonly recognised among women...

For that to happen, women like us simply need to be open about our experiences.

I have for years known the stats -- 1 woman in 4 experiences DV and the like. That didn't help me make the connection to my own situation one bit.

What would have helped is if a known and trusted person in my life had shared her experience with me; made it real and not something that just happens to "other people". My aunt escaped an abusive first marriage, but only told me the truth about her experience 6 months ago when I landed in tears on her doorstep, still debating whether to end mine. Until that day, I had grown up with the "white lie" that they had split because her xh didn't want children. Knowing the truth of her experience is certainly helping me now, but I can't help but think it would have helped me a heck of a lot more if I had been able to actively compare my experience with stbxh with knowledge of her own experience waaaaaay earlier.

I have been very open about my experience with DV with the women in my entourage. Some have even commented on my "courage". To me it seems natural: I am not ashamed. He should be. I have nothing to hide. I understand that not all women who survive DV feel the way I do: 2 of my very closest friends have only now told me their experience of boyfriend rape and long-term emotional abuse, now that I have shared my experience with them. They too, like my aunt, preferred to keep quiet. That is totally their choice and I do not condemn it. But for me, I feel that if anything good is to come of my own personal experience, it will be that I am forewarning and forearming the lovely people-pleasing women I know about what could await them.

I felt the same last year when I had a miscarriage: something that is painful, common, little talked about, and you only discover what it is really like, and that those close to you have experienced it, when you go through one yourself. I also talked about my miscarriage to many friends; it's another topic I wish women were more open about among themselves to help save some pain for those who, inevitably, will go through the same harrowing thing.

Mouseface · 17/07/2011 21:19

Great post and sums up my feelings exactly Smile x

notsorted · 17/07/2011 21:28

Dear Puppy,
great post. I ignored lots of red flags to my error. Kept thinking that differences in outlook were complementary and as we were late 30s when we got together and had previous relationships there was bound to be some baggage and issues.
What really angers me was how when I tried to talk to his mother - she was grandmother to DC after all and my mother seriously ill with dementia - how it all got minimised. She still does it, much to my anger/disappointment and I think she and I colluded in minimising things, plus there was no other possible family support. So I kept thinking it was me. I didn't know how to handle him, how to not 'nag' or 'provoke'. 'He just can't cope.' And then recently after contacted OW - not good, but that's how I felt at the time - she had cheek to tell me that if I carried on like this I'd drive him to suicide. So it's all about me, is it? No, I'm not colluding in his problems any more.
All I can say is that OW now has whole set of red flags, so wonder how she'll deal with them?
I felt my concerns, questions, fear and any notion of how to judge things were all brushed aside by him and more importantly by those who might have stepped in.
Still do and that's why I'm so certain that my fears about him being able to deal with DC will have to be adjudicated by professionals.
Trouble with red flags is that some are so blindingly obvious, some get dimmed by all the usual excitement/anxiety of early part of the relationship and some you close your eyes to.

I think some very good checklists of what to watch for are available. I won't be blinded again, I hope.

I also liked very nice checklist of what good parent/bad parent does.

So today is an angry day, not a grief-stricken mourning for what might have been if only ....

bejeezus · 18/07/2011 09:06

morning ladies

iampos ---yes! my mouth is foul. It never used to be. Unfortunately it is becoming less under my breath and more out loud Sad. I hope it is reversible! I dont have any control over it. I mean, I must be able to stop doing it, but I suppose it is a outlet for my angry right now- feels like a pressure release valve

bejeezus · 18/07/2011 09:08

have good days all

Mouseface · 18/07/2011 10:16

Morning all Smile xx

ItsMeAndMyPuppyNow · 18/07/2011 10:21

Morning all!

Who needs a hug or a reality boost? Ready to apply both or either.

barbiegrows · 18/07/2011 10:21

Jut been away for the weekend away from family. Strange but worth it for the welcome I received from kids on return. As usual narcissistic dp was full of what great things he did with dcs. He had made a bit of an effort in the kitchen and had been good to dcs. But again last night it was the waking up and nudging that I couldn't handle and he got huffy about it, then when I complained this morning he got huffy again, so I finally told him about EA (not using those terms) but told him it's not rocket science, but this is why we are together. I could handle it when I was younger but I am not so strong any more. Greeted with silence (as usual). I told him if he won't listen to me he must go to see counsellor or the relationship will fall apart.

He went to work, I did school run, now I'm off to work and we'll see how it progresses. Big changes in family at the moment, new schools, new jobs.

I did some research here to get the male perspective on all this (as usual thinking of the other side) and to my great relief the consensus seems to be that yes, our issues are hangups of days gone by and there's no excuse and no reason for men to use power and control in relationships, which in turn forces women to be defensive and manipulative in order to survive.

^It is quite common to see a woman leave one abusive relationship, only to become part of a new abusive relationship. What is not as commonly seen, but is there if you look for it, is how frequently these women come from homes where their fathers were abusive to their mothers. I have come to think that these women are trying to redeem their fathers, by showing that if their mothers had only loved him a little harder, everything would have turned out better. In other words, that this woman (as a child) would have gotten the love she deserved (but did not get) from her father, if only her mama had not made her poppa so angry (or whatever). Laid out coldly in print, this does not look like a good life plan, but it does account for some facts that crop up too often to be coincidences.

Now I know, this is weird and Freudian (neo-Freudian, actually), but can you do better? Women as a group are not stupid, or masochistic. They can obviously detect the signs of the Bad Boy, but they don't see them as danger signs. No theory of this kind can be scientifically proved, but mine covers the facts, and has pretty good predictive power. I ask because, if we knew, I think we could break the chain, and that is worth doing.

Whether and why boys from abusive households tend to seek out women like their mothers, I leave to you.^

Taken from 'Hey Tom' on Flylady - (down to earth non-expert advice on 'homemaking' US style). I'm glad I found it here, because it shows that this view is not just a view from relationship specialists, (Bundy and Engel), it is the view of the average Joe of America.

cathkidstonbag · 18/07/2011 10:21

Morning :)
Am very glad that weekend is over!
And re: the past. I don't have one as far as my DH is concerned. He made it clear when I met him that he NEVER wanted to know about anyone before him. I did have to try and force a conversation about 3 years ago when an ex tried to get in touch with me and was a bit persistent. Had to say to DH, look he keeps contacting me and I used to go out with him, there is nothing in it but if he turns up on the doorstep you need to know. DH made endless comments after that about what a slapper I used to be before I met him :S I was 17 when I met him FFS!!!

barbiegrows · 18/07/2011 10:21

Why don't my italics work??? (it's the ^ above the 6 right?)

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