Narc Mother just hung up on ME. For once I am not calling her back. Come and join the letting hew stew thread to remind me I am not a heartless cow.....

[DrNortherner]

Loads of threads on here about her, worse since Dad died 2 years ago.

Called her tonight, got the cold shoulder, she was just telling me how down she is, how lonley she is, and what terrible dreams she is having, then she moaned for 10 mins about her Mother and her friends, then just giving me one word answers, I pushed to find out what was wrong with her and she broke into floods of hysterical tears.

She said she was so hurt that I haven't called her since Wednesday evening (used to call every day, then every other day, trying to make it less as she is so hard work) She also said I don't visit as much as I used to when dad was alive.

I rationally explained I a busy, and petrol costs alot (she lives 80 miles away and does not drive) Still, she kept on crying and saying how much I am hurting her.

I very firmly, told her that I was pissed off, and it feels like a slap in the face to here this from her. I call her at least 4 times a week and visit her once a month. We only saw her on Sunday FGS.I also firmly reminded her she only calls her Mother once a week. Because I was being firm, she the cried even more asking me why I was being so mean to her, and that she didn't it at the moment. I simply said I was defending myself as you said I don't visit or call you enough. Then the classic narc answer 'I did not say that, you are putting words in my mouth'

Then she said she is upset as my dh is rude to her (he is blunt with her as he has witnessed 13 years of her emotionally blackmailing me and he refuses to let her get away with it, more so since Dad died)

Dh barely visits her and she is so draining, but tonight she said it must be because she lives on a council estate He has no problem with the fact of where she lives, its her behaviour he has an issue with.

Then, she said 'There's no point talking to you when you are like this' and hung up on me......

Normally, I would call her back. This time I AM NOT.

[TeachMySelfBalance]

I agree with MyHipsHurt and FoundWanting.
Your mom might think this is an apology and may refer to it in the future as one.

We, we, we (you know my thoughts on that )...she has talked, but is she willing to listen so you can talk? This might be a time to point out in no uncertain terms that every conversation has been a one way street and she needs to be silent and listen to you and respond to you.

I got a written "I don't know why..." apology from my narc MSister...I just ignored it because it was not an apology. Hers went like this: "I am scratching my head trying to figure out how I have offended you. I really can not figure this out."

It is tricky. It is bait. Rehearse some responses before you call her.

[Playdohinthewashingmachine]

I said further up the thread -

* possibly she's worried that you mean business, and is planning on being just nice enough to you to get you back where she wants you. Watch out for that one - you'll think "wow! she's turned over a new leaf! we can restart our relationship" and before you know it you'll be back to square one *

Take the opportunity. Send her a letter back. Spell it out. Clear, not too long and to the point. Answer her question. Tell her that you are not arguing with her, you are just not putting up with her bad behaviour any more.

Actually, writing the letter could be good for you. Start with one that you're not going to send. Pour it all out and don't mince your words. Then put that to one side (keep it to read later when she's trying to manipulate you by being nice). And show the letter to dh so he can start to understand how you feel.

Then do a very short factual one that you will send. "Mum I find it hard when you ... It hurts me when you ... " etc.

[Katisha]

Hi DrN. No you are not being harsh. She cannot change. Narcs do a lot of "I love you" when it suits them. They love an idea of you, not the reality.

DH is probably hoping the letter is a breakthrough for you, as he sees you struggle with it all so much. Ironically I think the breakthrough is not the letter, but rather you waking up to that fact that she cannot change and that you need to set boundaries. That will make you happier in the long run, not being pulled about by her and her varying tactics. (Which are unlikely to be coldly calculated - its just how narcs are.)

Play it very cool.

(And get that counselling asap!)

[Xanthe]

Sorry to interrupt, but what does 'narc' mean?

[CarGirl]

narcisstic personality disorder

[DrNortherner]

Quick update. Called her this evening to say cheque arrived and to wish her a good holiday. I thanked her for the note. She basically said she does not know what else to do as we keep arguing. I explained we are not arguing, I am simply explaining how I feel. She basically said she does not understand why I am saying this stuff as she has been really strong and doesn't moan all the time. Even Susan in the butchers was just telling her today how well she is coping since she lost Dad

Everytime I tried to explain, that she can't cry and moan every time I cal her, and then cry and moan that I don't call her enough/visit her enough and just expect me to take that. It's not fair. She denied saying it! She was on speakerphone so dh heard it all and was pretending to shoot himself in the head as she was speaking.

She then said the thing that has upset her most in all of this is that I told her it costs £40 in petrol to get to her house I have told her I feel unlistened in all of this to and she is upset by the cost of fucking petrol!

So, she was deflecting it all back at me saying 'there you go again' and 'why are you being like this?, I don't want to argue'

She said she is allowed to have a bad day and have a whinge, everyone does. I accepted this, and explained i have a husband, family and friends who all have bad days, and I can cope with that as it is not all consuming, and that they equally, in turn, listen to me to. But with her it's all one way. The she did the wounded voice thing 'HOW DARE YOU SAY THAT TO ME? I HAVE NEVER PUT MYSELF FIRST, EVER' Dh fell off his chair at this point.

So then, in her horrible voice she said it is best I only ring her once a week, then that way, if she is having a bad time, I won't have to know about it. And that I shoudl feel free to visit her just when I feel like it....

I let out a huge sigh and said nothing.

She then got very angry and was saying 'why are you sighing? You sound angry. Why are YOU angry'

At that point I decided to end the conversation. I told her to enjoy her holiday, and I said we would talk when she got back.

She ended it with a pathetic 'say hello to ds for me'

[DrNortherner]

Basically she wants me to go back to agreeing with her, soothing her, calling every day/every other day and visiting every month only to listen to her moans, whinges, tears and stories of how lonely she is and that no one supports her. Tying to rise above her spiteful, negative conversations. Go along with her for a quiet life. This is no good for me or my family is it? I can not do this.

I can not challenge her all the time as we hot this brick wall.

Even when she says 'Ring me once a week then' I know she does not mean that. And in a few weeks time I would have tears that I only call her once a week.

Good God this is such a screwed up situation because she is not wired to think about me.

At least I have a week on no contact to sort out my head. As dh said tonight, she lives 80 miles away but she is ruining our family time. Even on the phone her nasty, negative attitude is seeping into our household.

[MyHipsHurt]

DrN, PLEASE listen to your DH because she WILL destroy your family. The distance that she lives doesn't really matter. A mother who really cared about YOU would not want your own family life to be affected like this and she would care that she was intruding. She just doesn't get it and she never will.

[RubberDuck]

"A mother who really cared about YOU would not want your own family life to be affected like this and she would care that she was intruding"

Absolutely, this was the realisation with my own mother. She has this thing that I'll have my comeuppance with my own children and then I'll "understand". But you know what I understand? That if my child told me that something I did really upset them and hurt their feelings, I would apologise and do my utmost to find a compromise that made us both happy or try really hard never to do it. I wouldn't turn it round on them and blame them for it, or consider it stupid or unimportant. Even if I did think they were being oversensitive. Because I LOVE THEM.

Words mean fuck all without the actions to go with them.

[pointythings]

DrN, hard as this will be, I really think you need to go no contact. I do think it's good that your DH heard that conversation you had - I doubt he is still thinking that the letter your 'D'M sent was any kind of progress anymore...

You now need to set about peeling yourself away from her completely. You will probably need professional help/counselling with this as the feelings of guilt will be very powerful, but in the end you and your family have to come first. Think if it as doing the best for your DH and your DC as well as yourself. Narcissists don't change. Ever.

And I've just realised that whilst my DM is not a narc, her mum most definitely was, which is why all this is striking a chord with me - I saw what it did to my own mum.

[Katisha]

They swear black is white because they believe it.

The narc I knew said I'd pushed him down some steps. I had certainly shouted at him but obviously had not pushed him down any steps. He swore ever after that this is what I'd done and that he would report me to the police ( a tactic he was using to keep the family member he was with in line...)

If it had ever come to court (which it didn't) he would have happily given evidence that I had pushed him down the steps because he believed it to be so. His own version of reality.

This is why you cannot win. You just have to get away.

[RagingRabbit]

I've been no-contact with my entire family for several years now (father, mother, brother). I wouldn't say it's easy but it's the only sane option. I've been in therapy for donkey's years now, and am much, much happier as a result.

DrN, we haven't met before, but just to say it's good to see you getting angry at her rather than blaming yourself as she has taught you to do! It is so hard to crawl out from under the weight of this kind of parental brainwashing.

I do think that people who haven't been through it themselves really cannot begin to grasp just how enslaved your mind can be. And how attached to falsehoods you can be when those falsehoods have been presented to you as truths by those who raised you, those whom you loved and trusted blindly from your earliest infancy - because of course you had no choice.

Katisha - "They swear black is white because they believe it." Absolutely. We cannot make them see the truth, however true it is, because their whole life and self-image is bound up in a lie. It is bloody hard enough to make ourselves see the truth, let alone them! But that's the only job that's worth doing, and that yields results, IME. (Re-educating ourselves, I mean!)

Good luck, DrN, with your journey. You are absolutely right to want this dynamic to change. And of course she will do everything she can to make sure that it doesn't.

[GetOrf]

I have read this thread for several days DrN - I am so sorry. She seems to leech all the happiness and self worth out of you.

The sad thing I think is that she genuinely doesn't mean to antagonise you (imo obviously). It think that narcissistic behavuiur like this is the presierve of people who are not intelligent enough to understand other people's point of view. I don't think narcs are necessarily spiteful, just stupid.

It will be 2 years in October since I spoke to my self-obsessed mother. It has been horrible. Bjt not as horrible as having that shit in my life.

I am so sorry Drn. You sound like such a lovely, intelligent woman. I hope you can stay strong for yourself.

[WhollyGhost]

A week's break to enjoy your life without her poison will do you a world of good.

I don't think that narcs really care about other people's point of view. I don't believe they care about the truth - they are able to swear black is white because truth is not important to them.

There can be no real emotional connection with a narc - they see a relationship as a game, a powerplay.

My own mother is one, and although I have never cut contact, she lost power over me long ago. I think that I will always feel a sense of loss for the mother I might have had, it gets sharper as my own DD gets older.

My siblings and I have different theories as to how our mother became the wretched creature she is, how she became a mother who never missed an opportunity to undermine her own children. We'll never really know, and I now realise that my biggest fear - that we would turn into her, is impossible.

[DrNortherner]

I know I am getting stronger as normally I would have called her this evening as she is off on her hols in the morning. I know she is probably expecting a call but it aint happened

I have been reading the daughters of narcissistic mothers website and it could be written just about her. She is the engulfing type. And when she says 'ring me once a week then' it's clear, that she means, if you do, I will make you pay at some point in the future.

I went for a run today and was mulling over all kind of thoughts (running is great fro head space) and came to the conclusion that all 5 of hers sisters must have some sort of personality disorder too, so somewhere along the line something went seriously wrong with their upbringing. Here is a brief synopsis of the six daughters:

Number 1 - Married 3 times, divorced 3 times. 2 grown up sons. Youngest is golden child who still lives on the same street as her. Eldest son is the black sheep, he has had no contact with his mother for 9 years.

2 - My Mum. Say no more.

3 - This is the one I am not sure about. She married my Dads brother. Divorced. Lost her 2nd partner in a car accident. Sadly lost a son when he was 11 years old. He had CP and severe SN. She has had 2 houses repossessed, survived breast cancer and generally had a shitty deal.

4 - The golden child. The pretty, successful, mother earth type. She has 3 sons, all of which are tied to her apron strings. Youngest been at uni for a year and she is not coping with his departure, on anti d's, crying all the time.

5 - On her 3rd marriage. Compulsive liar. In huge debt to local loan sharks. This is the one who is most of an ally to my Mother as my Mum lends her money.

6 - The infantalised one. Aged 48 and still lives with my Gran. Never left home, never had a boyfriend. My Gran cooks for her, makes her packed lunches for work and tells her off asif she is 10. All the sisters treat her like a baby. She is a huge Spongebob fan and normally wears a spongebob T shirt or socks

Strangely, although my Gran is still alive, I don't know anything about her. There are alot of cousins so I never spent any real quality time with her, and as my Mum has had a strained relationship with her, she never nurtured one between us.

[CoffeeIsMyFriend]

DrN just catching up with your thread now. You ARE stronger lately, which can only be a good thing.

Just reading your last post is enough to make me think you should steer clear of ALL of those people. Totally disfunctional family that is stuck in a cycle of 'woe is me' type behaviour.

You are lucky to have got away all things considered.

Dont feel guilty about the 1 call a week, that is enough for most people who live far away. I sometimes call my parents more often, but only if I have things to tell them or if we are arranging something. Have to say, despite my Mum and her behaviour she sounds angelic compared to yours!

You are doing well. x