Narc Mother just hung up on ME. For once I am not calling her back. Come and join the letting hew stew thread to remind me I am not a heartless cow.....

[DrNortherner]

Loads of threads on here about her, worse since Dad died 2 years ago.

Called her tonight, got the cold shoulder, she was just telling me how down she is, how lonley she is, and what terrible dreams she is having, then she moaned for 10 mins about her Mother and her friends, then just giving me one word answers, I pushed to find out what was wrong with her and she broke into floods of hysterical tears.

She said she was so hurt that I haven't called her since Wednesday evening (used to call every day, then every other day, trying to make it less as she is so hard work) She also said I don't visit as much as I used to when dad was alive.

I rationally explained I a busy, and petrol costs alot (she lives 80 miles away and does not drive) Still, she kept on crying and saying how much I am hurting her.

I very firmly, told her that I was pissed off, and it feels like a slap in the face to here this from her. I call her at least 4 times a week and visit her once a month. We only saw her on Sunday FGS.I also firmly reminded her she only calls her Mother once a week. Because I was being firm, she the cried even more asking me why I was being so mean to her, and that she didn't it at the moment. I simply said I was defending myself as you said I don't visit or call you enough. Then the classic narc answer 'I did not say that, you are putting words in my mouth'

Then she said she is upset as my dh is rude to her (he is blunt with her as he has witnessed 13 years of her emotionally blackmailing me and he refuses to let her get away with it, more so since Dad died)

Dh barely visits her and she is so draining, but tonight she said it must be because she lives on a council estate He has no problem with the fact of where she lives, its her behaviour he has an issue with.

Then, she said 'There's no point talking to you when you are like this' and hung up on me......

Normally, I would call her back. This time I AM NOT.

[pixie100]

Myhiphurts WOW .
I'm in total admiration of yr strength & courage.
That's truely amazing & inspirational
(I mean what you did is, not the shitty mother!).

[Fimbo]

I am thinking of you Dr N. I admire you too myhiphurts.

[MrsSchadenfreude]

When my father died, my mother said to me, I don't know why you're so upset, he was only your father, he was my husband. She also went through every single thing I had done wrong (in her view) since childhood, which had upset my father and "which you'll never be able to put right now." I haven't forgiven her for that one. I doubt I ever will.

Hang on in there, Dr N! I think the worst thing about being an only child is that you have no-one else to share this burden or to dilute the shit that gets shovelled at you. My mother's siblings have categorically refused to have her for Christmas, or to stay at any other time, as they don't want their Christmases ruined.

[Fimbo]

Just had a phonecall with my mother, was telling her about what dd is up to with her friend this weekend, whilst I was still talking she started talking over me and asked if I could hair the rain and thunder at her end, so had to stop talking and listen. Nothing changes....

[DrNortherner]

God they take the biscuit don't they?

Mrs S, you are right about the only child thing I think, but then I guess they would still be difficult if we had siblings.

I felt strangely down today, she was on my mind lots and I didn't sleep well last night. I expect her to come out with all the woe is me crap, but, if I am totally honest she totally floored me when she said I have not allowed her to grieve properly. The letter I sent her that she was meaning was one I sent to her about a year after Dad's death when she was being extremely all consuming of me, I re read it last night to see if in grief I was a little hard on her (I knew she may use it against me at some point so I took a copy as proof of what I really wrote" and imo it was a really nice letter. I started off talking about her, about her grief and how much I knew she was hurting. I included lists of local clubs and committees, the phone number of The Samaritans and Cruse, and a selection of evening classes she might enjoy. Then, I mentioned me. I told her that sometimes, I feel overwhelmed by her emotions, and I feel that she thinks I am responsible to make her feel better. I explained that whilst I may have done that before, this time, as I had lost my wonderful, safe, wise Dad, I was struggling too. I ended it by saying that losing Dad was a huge change for us both, and things sometimes need to be said so we can move forward. She chose to ignore 99% of it and take it that I was stifling her grief....

I have woken up to exactly what she is like. I realise now she will never change.

What I don't know is where we go from here. I think I will call her at the weekend, as I said I would, and tall her to go on her hols, have a nice time, and that we will talk when she gets back. I want to ask her to think about what she said. I want to tell her she is being unfair. Although I know this is futile.

[TimeForMeIsFree]

I feel your pain DrNortherner. I haven't seen or spoken to my narc mother for 10 years now. It was extremely difficult at first but now, all these years later, I am a much happier, emotionally healthy and balanced person for not having contact. She was/is my mother and she has a lot to answer for but my sanity is worth more than any answers she won't give.

[Katisha]

DrN you have had a breakthrough about her which is great. But don't confuse your lightbulb moment (sort-of) with the hope that she, too, may wake-up to herself. The sad fact is she won't.

Much as you want to explain yourself to her, and ask her to reconsider what she thinks and says, I'm afraid it just won't happen. Don't try to talk to her about it. Or if you do, set it down as a series of statements and don't expect her to understand one iota.

What you need to work on now is where YOU go from here. She will not be joining you on any kind of journey of reconciliation and change. Please accept that this will be a one-way process then you won't raise false hopes in yourself.

[curtaincall]

Can you try and imagine she doesn't understand English and when she hears you it sounds like Japanese to her. Also, that she doesn't want to learn English. Ever. Does that help?

[MyHipsHurt]

Pixie100 and Fimbo, thank you so much for your kind words, they mean a lot.

DrN, I hope you are continuing to take strength from these posts. It is so draining to continue to have contact with a narc mother. Unfortunately it is a battle you will never win, but only you know if you can ever completely break free.

Regarding siblings - I have several and they are 'golden children'. I am the family scapegoat. I cannot share the burden with them at all. In fact they make it ten times worse, because they all fire her bullets at me. I had never really stood up to her before the incident last year; I have had to go NC with them also. Having siblings doesn't always help. In some ways it makes the situation more acute because you know that she treats them differently. Now I consider myself an only child with no parents.

[PercyPigPie]

Dr N . So sad about your dad loosing his parents so early. It sounds as though your mum really needs someone to off-load to that is not family. Do you think she would consider a counsellor? is there anyone you could pair her with to try and reduce her offloading onto you?

[DrNortherner]

I will try to think that she doesn't understand English. That's a good way of looking at things. I am amazed at how many of us have a Narc parent. How come no one else can see it?!

I have been overwhelmed by my feelings today. I am tired and irritable and as a result dh and I had a row tonight. I feel angry. Angry with her for not being able to understand, and angry that my Dad died and life totally changed. Then I feel like I am wallowing a bit (so scared of being like her) and keep trying to remind myself that lots of people have it worse than me. This thread has been wonderful, in fear of being like my Mother I worry that I moan to much to people in RL so thank you for giving me a platform to vent.

Have decided I am calling he on Sat night as on Sunday her 'friend' is staying with her as they are off on hols on Monday morning and leaving early. Incidentally, the friend is the woman who drives my Mother mad, and she complains about her to me every phone call.

I am not going to discuss any of this with my Mum, as I know we will just go round in circles. Instead, I am going to take control and set firm boundaries. This whole thing has been a huge eye opener for me.

Anyway, I have a day off tomorrow, going to have a long walk with the dog, then visit a friend and her gorgeous new baby boy

Thanks all for taking the time to offer input and advice.

[cremeeggsbenedict]

DrN - you will feel overwhelmed, it's not an overnight process! You're beginning (and it is only the beginning) to understand 34 years of abuse, mistreatment and pain. And vent all you like here - it's important to get it out! I used to worry that I was turning into my narcmum as I used to whinge about it to all and sundry, and then I realised I won't turn into her as I recognise that she is abnormal and I got a therapist so I could whinge to him and have my allotted "moaning time" each week. Well done by the way for making a plan for this weekend's phonecall. It's the best way to deal with her, though she won't like the boundaries - they are an insult to Ns. Do what's best for you and what you want. It'll take time to recognise what you want, but you'll get there.

MyHipsHurt - your last sentence has really struck a chord with me, I may borrow it if that's ok? It hurts ever so much to see your parents treat the golden child like they can do no wrong whereas as the scapegoat everything I do is considered bad (GCSis stole money from my parents and is forgiven, I shaved my head at 18 and it's still brought up as "bad behaviour" and more challenging than GCSis stealing as a ridiculous example). I think that golden children probably end up being narcs too as they can't see the negatives of the narc behaviour, or at least that's how it appears in my family

My Daddy texted me yesterday to ask if we could meet today - he's in town. I am a bit thrown by it but won't be going. Meeting him on his terms and at short notice feels like being pulled back in to the duty thing. I said I was busy and that if he wants to meet he needs to give me sufficient notice. Feel a bit unsettled as a result, but I think it's a good thing as going is what I "ought" to do - I need to focus on "wants", and whilst I'd love to see him I think I need some time and space first.

[curtaincall]

OP Forgive me for speaking out of turn and also if you've mentioned this in a previous thread, but to me it sounds as though you haven't grieved properly for your Dad. You are also still desperate for her approval. As has been said, your DM needs professional help. She probably won't seek it as it's everyone else who has the problems :) but it looks like you really do and the counselling/therapy won't change your DM but it will change how you see her behaviour. Don't guilt trip yourself about others being worse off than you. Comparing will make you feel worse as you are judging yourself on top of your hurt feelings.

Myhipshurt, it must have been so hard for you. all of us children suffered in other ways to you, but i was a 'golden child' according to Dsis. I don't think this is true as we've all been treated with the same aloof lack of interest alot of the time, but she perceives it as such and of course this has coloured her view of herself in DMs eyes and has created a jealousy that she would be the first to admit. I would have walked a mile on hot coals to get my mother's approval, though found therapy turned me around and I now have compassion for her. (Still working on my Dsis though God, relationships are so complex aren't they?

[MrsSchadenfreude]

DrN - my mother has a friend like that that she goes away with!! She calls her "the pain"!!

I don't think other people see this side to them - everyone says to me "but your mother's really lovely." It's only the family that sees what she is really like. Her friends have had a go at me for "leaving my mother to go and work overseas" - I should live my life according to her wants, and in her village? Really?

[HairyWoman]

[TeachMySelfBalance]

Hi Dr. N,
I was away for a coulple of days; tried to post on my phone and lost it .

Sorry you had to sufffer contact with your mom. I am glad that you have some clarity now and are creating/recalibrating boundaries to protect yourself. Dr. Northerner is Number One! New mantra for the week?

There was a point in your Mom's phone call I'd like to discuss. I know I pick things apart, but sometimes intensive analysis is necessary to find a clue in all the complexities of these circumstances.

It is related to the comment I made early in the thread about your (or anyone's Narc mother) mother actually not loving you...I know that is a shock and hard to get one's head around it. Well, here's another one.

Dr. N, do you think your mom even knows you?

You wrote that your mother said something along the lines of, "I don't know about you..." Now, why would't she know about you? I know that this phrase is often used in a snotty sort of put down; another subtle degradation (one can just see the offensive nose rising up in attitude), but I think it is a slip and reveals a bit of truth.

At one point my narc Middle Sister actually said, "Well, I guess I just don't know you then." I think I am just now feeling the full insult of this. I wouldn't do what she wanted and to explain that to herself, to maintain her pride and superiority, she made a statement of disconnection (I don't know you). It is another example of majestic dismissiveness.

My feeling about my narc Middle Sister is that she is so busy degrading me, correcting, one-ups, last wording, dismissing, diminishing, manipulating, crafting the 'complimentary insults'...etc...that she has been so absorbed in treating me that way that she can not actually know me. She has dismissed everything: what is left to know? When is she ever open to seeing me? Never. Contact is a trigger for her to go into superiority mode and get some supply. I feel it is a reflexive instinct with her-as our mother trained her. Yet she could choose to treat me differently, but she doesn't, she won't, and she never will.

Now HairyWoman sees it with the "WE" concept. This is not a 'little' trigger for me. Middle Sister will say: "I think we should..." Oh, boy... She is thinking for the collective. AS IF she has the only functioning brain and everyone should be grateful to be graced with her condescension to share it with us.

Thinking about it all makes me bitter-but that is anger -and a feeling. I am not going to be ashamed of my feelings about it.

Sorry for the essays, thanks for reading; it does feel good to vent.

[DrNortherner]

TeachMySelfBalance no I don't think my Mum does know me, at all. She tells people she does, she tells people we are really close I love that you read into to stuff and analyse it! Makes me see things from a different angle.

Perhaps we need a thread for those of us dealing with Narc relatives?

[prettywhiteguitar]

Hi Dr N I thought I'd update you with my lovely mothers recent behaviour, I had my baby 4 weeks ago

My mum was dog sitting for her friend down south, on her birthday which was 2 weeks ago, I put my mum off coming to see us as I couldn't handle her and a 2 week old baby so I said some after dog sitting

She seemed a bit put out but ok, anyway called on her birthday in the evening, she was tearful on the phone saying she thought i'd forgotten it was her birthday, AND then started on having a go about her friend, her dogs, how babdly behaved they were (she dog sat for them last year, knows exactle what they are like) and how her friend was supposed to be travelling back sooner from holiday as it was her birthday but now it would be too late to do anything....it was 9pm and her friend has suggested having a drink when they got in, about half an hour away (this is rich as she will happily stay up till 1am at home)

Right so this is where I have actually been a bad daughter, as she was coming i didn't bother putting anything in the post for her birthday, she did ask for photo's of the baby (in a sad voice)

so now shes got home, whenever that was and there was nothing there for her. Sooooo shes in a massive mood and not calling me, I am not calling her because frankly I don't want her here and I'm slightly interested in how long she can hold out for.....

I feel like I'm conducting an experiment

And even though I know a normal parent would call straight after their holiday and ask how the baby was and me even if there hadn't been a card in the post I still feel bad. A normal parent would make a joke about how usless I'd been and how you can't get anything done with a newborn baby and how all consuming breastfeeding is......but not her

she will be thinking

POOR ME

[prettywhiteguitar]

god I actually hate her

[prettywhiteguitar]

oh and she also tells people we are close, this is because we ring them and give them attention

[rosie0000]

DrN,

I only realised that my mum was a narc after she died. I feel for all you guys who are coping with a living one. Hang in there! Big hugs to you all. (reading this back, it sounds flippant, I don't mean it to be)

It's a sad thing to say, but I'm glad she's dead. I grieve for the mum i should have had and know that she would never have changed had she lived- I would never have had the moment where she realised the abuse and apologised for it.

DrN, you are doing great! Don't worry, you will NEVER be like her- none of us will be like our mums- because you are now aware of what she is. She can't change, but you can try the things other people have suggested on here to protect yourself. You belong to yourself, you are not her appendage. Focus on you, DH and children.

[DrNortherner]

We DO need a Narc parent support thread!

The cheque arrived today in the post, she included the following note:

Dr DrN, I love you so much, I just don't know why we are arguing all the time. We both loved Dad and always will. I think we need to talk about feelings more.
Love Mam.

She doesn't know why we are arguing?

'We' need to talk about our feelings more. She has done nothing else for the past 2 years other than tel me how she feels.

Dh thinks I am being harsh, and the letter is a start..........

[FoundWanting]

DrNortherner I have been following your thread and hope you don't mind me jumping in.

I had one of the 'I don't know why...' letters from my mother and absolutely pounced on it. I replied by letter, making it clear that i was following her lead, and told my mother that I thought we were spending too much time together and laying out a sort of timetable of visits/phonecalls that I felt I could deal with.

Your DH thinks you are harsh because if you've never had to deal with a parent like this, it is almost impossible to get your head round. Narcs have so many weapons in their arsenal. Just when you think you are dealing with things, they reel out another little trick. Communicating by letter means you can't argue with her, and no-one who hasn't had to deal with their manipulation techniques could see anything wrong in a caring message from a parent to a child.

Stay strong. You are doing so well.

[DrNortherner]

Thanks

[MyHipsHurt]

Gosh that's a hard letter to have to deal with. I honestly don't know what I'd do if I'd received that. I'd be very shocked as my narc mum has never told me directly that she loves me :(

But it's true that if you've never personally had to deal with a narc parent then anyone else would think that the letter is kind and straightforward, which it isn't.