ValentineBombshell: well it went tits up but thank you

[ValentineBombshell]

Hello to anyone who remembers me from, as my name suggests, way back in February. Am a long time MN regular whose H confessed to kissing a colleague at work/an EA.

original thread here

Had to step away from MN for a bit as everything just imploded. Of course he hadn't just kissed her, it was all far more tawdry than that, she'd been giving him blowjobs in carparks.

And now my life reads like a badly scripted soap. Am about to proceed with divorce, distressingly he is still living in the same house as me and the children and he has reached heights (or should that be lows?) of jaw-dropping awfulness.

But I just wanted to come back and say thank you for the wise words that MNers took the time to post, for the support and the tough love, both of value in equal measure. And hopefully back on MN under my usual name xx

I have now read the bit where he got some infection in his groin -- you really need to go and have yourself tested no matter what he said about this infection. Do not be so inclined to believe him. He is not capable of putting anyone else's best interests first.

His behaviour and neediness with the OW right now is indeed mind boggling and should serve as a warning to you that this man is incapable of counting past the Number One.

Are his parents close enough to you to have him see the children at their house? I question the wisdom of having him in your house, and I also question the wisdom of having a man whom you nursed through suicide threats alone at any time with the children with all this upheaval going on (especially thinking of the time he came back into the house and told them he was going to end his life). On the one hand he seems unable to function without you performing nurse duties so that he can perform well enough to keep his job and on the other hand, he claims to be able to do perfectly fine as a father in charge of his children -- he surely can't have his cake and eat it? I think you could get away with restricting his unsupervised access to the children. Is there a contact centre anywhere close by?

I would be willing to bet that the OW's H is neither a drunk nor a bully btw, and also that your H's relationship with the OW will fizzle as soon as she has him all to herself. She sounds like someone constantly on the lookout for greener pastures, and a first class flake to boot.

MA, made him go to the GUM clinic Feb/March and he came back all clear, I read the report. Any infection he's picked up, if sexually transmitted, is subsequently. Was screened myself with each pregnancy, including last year.

The ILs and his family are about 2 hours away so can be no practical help with seeing the children. Plus they are adamant they do not want to see him. There isn't the option of moving closer to family either, as it would mean working full-time and essentially starting again, so we either stay put or move closer to my work to reduce commute/better schooling.

His talk of suicide before was, as others have rightly surmised, histrionics/temper/tantrum, he never mentioned it to the children MA, he 'just' said to me 'tell the children I'd killed him' . He mostly functions as a reasonable or a good dad, when he isn't he now has the option of taking himself off. And apart from some innate parental instinct he does have that means there is a line you don't cross, he'd be scared of the consequences if he drew the kids into this, he knows he wouldn't get near the dcs and he would be facing the authorities and a contingent of family warning him off. And physically he is not a threat to me, if he was it would be apparent by now given his size and all the confrontational drama in recent months; it would be an anathema to be violent even if I punched him on the nose [tempted!]. I have no cause to defend him given his poor conduct, but can't paint him in completebastardwhite either.

OW's husband apparently got drunk, woke up at 2pm and didn't realise the kids were at the MILs. But obviously it suits H to think OW's husband is no good so it justifies their affair and breaking up their marriage - yet the OW's kids are considering which parent to live with, so not so clear cut. Tbh, don't know what the reality is there, if he is an abusive drunk or not, my only concern is how that mess might impact my dcs and protecting them from it for as long as feasible.

H in self pitying mode, the husband of OW demanded his kids have nothing to do with H and she agreed. Then she backtracked to H to say she only meant for that week. So that chimes in well with your assessment MA of OW flakiness/greener pastures/mercenariness.

My aim is to secure our financial future asap and leave them to it. Solicitor said finances sorted after divorce is granted (4-6 weeks away am hoping now)but have clear ideas about what should happen (with my FIL chuntering quietly about putting the squeeze on H if he doesn't do right by me and the children!)

Gosh what a mess, you are doing so well though. Really well.

I do wish you would take SGB and others' advice and cut him off when he starts offloading all this unbelievable shite on you - why do you know all this detail about OW's family/dh - why is he still bending your ear with all this nonsense?

I wish you would just take the 'Picking the kids up at 4pm? Great, bye then' road - just cut him off before he starts bleating on. I know you want to know what's what because it may affect your children but he is still using you as a sounding board and expecting analysis or sympathy or a shoulder or an ear. Don't give them to him!

I do love your ILs, VB! :)

I also understand why you let him tell you the crap with the OW - there is a part of you (and, let's face it, most of us) that revels in the knowledge it's not all rosy in Greener-Grassland. It's only human to be pleased he's having a tough time! But in the end, your need to know will lessen and you will be able to just cut him off before he gets beyond "sooo, OW..." and you'll be all "bye then, see you" and hanging up. It will come, I promise.

It's hard to explain fully but whilst OW's H was in the dark/their lives are a mess, it means their attention is not focused this way but inwardly. Now that matters have come to a head there, the OW is evidently thinking about what H is bringing to the pot and issues to do with children. I was hoping, unrealistically, that that between H & I it would all be done and dusted by then so her agenda would have little influence.

But it's 4-6 weeks at least before divorce nisi is through and firm arrangements to have the finances settled can be agreed legally. I know in theory it can be done before but that assumes some involvement from H who a) is totally distracted and unwilling to face up to money matters unless couched in a solicitor's letter and b) has to go through the palaver of an outraged reaction until he sees that I am, as usual, reasonable and right. But now that matters have changed, and it feels time is ticking, so thinking of asking the solicitor to start preparing now so the time it takes is reduced.

In my head, closing the front door on our new house with finances sorted will be closing off a whole big chapter of my life, including H and his brouhaha, as it will have far less of impact on us.

Ok, I admit it Thumbwitch, in a completely unedifying, nose-to-the-glass way, it's also quite satisfying to see what everyone has warned H of re the OW, is coming true. I do hope ultimately he is happy and sorts himself out, but given his conduct, it's nice to karma at work .

And yes my ILs are so supportive, a bit scary, but fab!

I agree with you that you should have your sol move as fast as possible.

There is the possibility of the OW wanting a return on her bj investment over all these months/ showing her true colours/ putting your H's feet to the fire and maybe the sooner your sol has your case ready to go the better as she will have less time to grasp reality (which seems to be hitting her like a ton of bricks at the moment)..

LOL at completebastardwhite

What worries me so much here VB, is that you know all the minutie of OW's H, and day to day stuff, which you then (naturally) try to analyse. I don't think, speaking my mind, that this is healthy for you. You can't move on whilst you are so embroiled in your STBXH's new life.

When you say that your Ex has to be couched to deal with money via a solicitor's letter - then fine, let the solicitor step up a gear and do this. When he kicks off, lower the level of support you give him.

He has MH issues, I realise that (as I mental health nurse I'd love to do a full assessment on his just to see how real these are btw!) so I know you tread carefully. Just stop treading so carefully. He has to man up here - he has to accept responsibility for his actions - too much cushioning will just delay things for you and the kids. You have to see moving on as your priority. You must must must, however slowly detach - and let him realise that you're the past, and OW is the future, and this crucially was his choice.

Take care

I think I am detaching - have no wish to see his new place (he's invited me to) /no advice offered on his situation, although happily will use the information he gives to tactical advantage if I can. I can see an end point.

But it is quite clear from some quite astounding comments today that he has not accepted the reality of his choice and had not detached (will post later, there is to be a 'discussion' to make a few things clear which will not go well I suspect)

How are you VB, and how did your discussion go? Hope you're ok.

Hi MA, thanks for checking up on me.

Am feeling a bit low I guess as don't feel I have the answers.

Estate agent doing a poor job of getting people through the door so have spoken to them today to get their finger out. Might give them notice actually and swap to another agent. Have found the house I want but it won't hang around long.

Tax credits people have refused my claim as the documentation doesn't support we've separated! So am having to chase round a whole new raft of paperwork to show oh yes we have and he has definitely left! So have asked H to produce paperwork in addition to that I have sent. Problem is my bank is so woefully inefficient, have contacted them 3 times now to put the account into my sole name, otherwise tax credits won't pay. Spoke to a very nice lady who promised to sort it out, but will ring on Monday to chase it up.

And things are not as I would like with H. The chat about his over-familiarity and spending too much time here, to my surprise, went fine. Pointed out to him that he should not pass comment on any purchases I make (the irony being I hadn't made any - the parcel he was eyeing up was for a neighbour and have lost weight so the clothes he doesn't recognise are pre children!) and he said as he heard the words come out of his mouth he thought 'what are you saying? i don't care' but it was a foot in mouth moment.

He also said he wasn't going to see the kids Saturday (inferred but not stated was that OW available) so reminded him again that the advice was little and often, that he did not need to see them for 8hr stretches but take them swimming for an hour or something, pick them up, drop them off (just the older two, youngest been unwell and anyway can only take two swimming at a time). But if not hey, he could see them next access day (so no thinking he could pop round when he felt like it if he didn't keep to it) So he agreed to swimming on Saturday and I thought great, this is much more like it.

Cut off any attempt to talk about his health (is having problems with depression/meds/his situation) or about his new life.

Problem is the children. After swimming, H had brought them some treats for lunch and they wanted him to stay, so came in to find them all making sandwiches in kitchen/plus he was setting up something computery for dc1. They are desperate for his company. Even dc3 (who didn't go swimming as was having his morning nap) was crawling at top speed to get to him.

And that's where my plan to be all remote and far more distant is coming unstuck as I can feel the kids longing for him to be here. I know they have to get used to it, but am having to explain over and over to a tearful dc2, with dc1 also listening, that daddy lives somewhere else now/is happier living somewhere else but he still loves them and will see them often.

I know it's just been a few short weeks for the children, H and I have known for a lot longer and we're the adults. So maybe all is needed is patience (not my strong suit) and in time things will settle down. But I can't get a bead on whether this set-up is helping the children feel secure (in own home/familiar surroundings) or whether this is not helping in the long run. We don't have family or close friends nearby who can help with access, they are very young, H is in shared accommodation etc etc.

Basically, I want to fast forward to the future and have everything sorted and all my feelings of dissatisfaction are with things beyond my urging along or control (estate agents, tax credits, H to some extent, and most importantly my gorgeous but, at present, sad dcs)

VB -- part of the problem with the children is that your H is not keeping to a schedule. The DCs cling to him when he comes because they don't know when they'll see him next and because they have had the experience of being let down by him before. You need to get him on a schedule asap, and insist that he keep to it with absolutely no exceptions made (bar health emergencies) and no surprise make up days. That way the DCs will be able to rely on seeing him for instance on Saturday mornings and it will become their new normal. This is new to them and regularity and routine will help them cope. Tell him he must do this in the interests of the children. He must commit to one stretch of about four hours per week, be it a weekday evening or Saturday morning or Sunday afternoon or whatever, but he must make a firm commitment and keep it come hell or high water.

And he must not be the bearer of treats every time he comes no matter how much of an ego trip or guilt assuager it may be for him to see the DCs receive them. That is not fair to you or to them, and it shortchanges himself too.

As far as the bank goes -- how about setting up a new account in your name and just draining the old one to about one last hundred pounds or so? Would that be quicker than taking one name off the old joint acc? It is horrible to have to chase people around to get them to do their jobs (and how long could this possibly take after all...)

Your H needs to co-operate as soon as possible with providing proof that he has left. There is no excuse for not doing this.

About the house how long has it been on the market and is the price reasonable? How does it look from the outside? Did the estate agent take nice photos, with lights on and clutter free rooms and are these available on the internet? Is there a fact sheet left at the house for people to pick up if they come through? It's a good idea to leave if and when potential buyers come through, and make your agent walk through with them people feel more free to speak up and ask questions or show interest if the owner is not present. Houses can take a while to sell . Post on the Property/DIY section here for tips on showing/selling.

Thank you MA, can't seem to see the wood for the trees at the minute when usually I am so focused; having someone look at it from the outside is really useful.

Just had a phone call from H offering to come and cook dinner /what you up to? ( means he's at a loose end/4 walls closing in/OW not available) so like a broken record said let's stick to the access pattern for the sake of the children/will let you get on with your day, bye. Then a text about something he's bought dc3 although have made clear no new toys, we've got to downsize when we move & finally a phone call to say he's found some child-locks to stop dc3 emptying cupboards/fridge, would they fit? Feel really mean as I know the dcs would love to see him (they don't know he's just rung) & can see he's being helpful but this is how he was when we were happy together, phone-calls about this and that, things he'd seen he thought we'd like and that just isn't appropriate anymore.

Have signed all the relevant paperwork with the bank, they are just woefully inefficient. When all the dust is sorted think I will swap, but at the moment am staying put where I have a credit history is useful. H has forwarded something he has by email that shows he is renting but said will bring his rental agreement when he next visits.

House looks fab, spent the last 3 months doing it up pretty much on my own, with some bathroom tlc courtesy of my fab ILs. It's a big 4 bed detached, with room to extend, has new carpets, recently & neutrally decorated, new fireplace, mahoosive conservatory with underfloor heating, nice kitchen with range and American ff, new fancy combi-boiler, quiet, not overlooked, lovely primary round the corner - really it should sell. Have reduced the price to make it more competitive as think EA was too optimistic. Is marketed well but am thinking of moving EAs as they seem to be concentrating on the local market which is stagnant, and need to actively promote more nationally.

I think he wants to see you, not necessarily the kids, and is scrambling around looking for excuses to phone you.

Your house sounds lovely, hope it sells soon.

You're doing exactly the right thing, letting him know that things have moved on, I know it's hard but you're being very strong.

He sounds needy. Don't mean that in a bitchy way, that's just how he seems to be behaving. It comes across as him wanting your attention and approval and repeatedly contacting you in the hope of getting it. I think you've hit the nail on the head with thinking he's at a loose end. He definitely hasn't gotten used to the fact that there are new boundaries now that you aren't together.

VB, your description of DC crawling to see his dad was so poignant and highlights the absurdness of the situation. Your ex seems to be seeking `something' possibly acting as the rescuer for the OW (you appear a highly capable and intelligent woman) but at some stage he will realise what he has left behind. I know it's tough for you, unravelling 20 years of being a couple isn't straight forward but it will eventually happen so just allow some time to past. You are however doing brilliantly.
How do you see the future? the ex seeing the children on a regular basis - the parenting of 3 DCs being cooperative and amicable, you with a new partner, very happy and settled? Just visualise that future, it might take a couple of years (therapist say a breakup is akin to a bereavement and can take between 2-4 years to heal) but I have no doubt you will get there.

There's a lot in what you say Saffymum and PhilipJFry. Did think looking back we were mutually supporting, but am questioning that now. Because as SGB said about the type, he does have charm & confidence in bucketloads and to have that turned full wattage on you can be flattering and at the crucial times in our relationship he is full-on with his support. I suppose having been his best friend for nigh on 22 years he's feeling its absence. Am not fooling myself, it's only because OW hasn't come through for him because presumably busy with her own complications - he's having to accept her attention isn't exclusively for him - and is looking for temporary succour. Plus he has said she isn't that clever (an important trait for him) so maybe he's missing that aspect too. The kinder part of me has been thinking find a healthier relationship, one that the kids can be a part of - but the tougher me, the one you and my ILs are urging me to be, is thinking hard cheese!

Nice to hear from you again Smum

Am not sure what saint is going to take me on with three young children, or find one, especially with them in tow! Maybe will have to exploit some poor man just for the sex

Seriously, it's a really heartening image you paint and it is what I would like eventually, a relationship good for me and the dcs, but know we need to be on our own first. People keep saying I've done nothing wrong, it was a good and strong marriage, it's all H and his 'me me meee' but wonder if that is true and so it's hard to know what lessons to take from this. And as for dating, no clue!

The future I picture is dcs going happily and confidently off with H but that also feels a way off, complicated by H's wish to play happy families with the OW. I've read threads where the mother is basically told tough when it comes to the OWs presence in their dcs' lives, although H has signed the statement of arrangements to review after a year, given the concerns there so have a bit of respite. Another friend suggested that H & I getting on so well still would eat away at the OW but actually I'd settle for amicable and communication about the children as necessary.

What comes across with the neediness/loose endiness is that he is not thinking of anyone but himself if he thinks he can just come and go as the fancy strikes him, with no regard for what this does to the children. Well done for sticking to your guns and making him keep to the schedule.

And I think you are right that the reality of a future with an OW who has children and (who would have imagined?) things to do with herself during the day other than fawning attention on him in carparks is really biting.

"the neediness/loose endiness is that he is not thinking of anyone but himself if he thinks he can just come and go as the fancy strikes him, with no regard for what this does to the children."

sadly true, MA

Woke up this morning to find he'd texted me at 1am saying hope he didn't wake me, did he have a winter duvet on his bed or was he suffering from side effects of his tablets?

haven't replied

But what really irked me was this morning DS said H had given him the photo of me out of his wallet (am surprised it was still there to be honest but guess OW didn't like seeing it every-time he opened it, as if anyone's photo ought to be there is should be hers!) but why do that to ds? why not just throw it away?

On the plus side I am now in ds1's DSi case so clearly I am prized

Hello VB, just passing as it were...I have caught up a bit(at work), but all this texting and the attempts at contact, is he going to work a huge number on you shortly about getting back together? Forgive me if this has already been gone over, but it reminds me oh so much of one of my exes-exactly how he operated after leaving and then thinking "...fuck, I made a mistake" etc. Hopefully I'm being a bit simplistic.

Argh

Have just had a phone call from H in tears saying he wants to come up, he's 'not safe'

Told him he has someone else in his life to turn to. He gad a knock at his door so has gone

But he's going to ring back.

What do I do? Tell him no?