ValentineBombshell: well it went tits up but thank you

[ValentineBombshell]

Hello to anyone who remembers me from, as my name suggests, way back in February. Am a long time MN regular whose H confessed to kissing a colleague at work/an EA.

original thread here

Had to step away from MN for a bit as everything just imploded. Of course he hadn't just kissed her, it was all far more tawdry than that, she'd been giving him blowjobs in carparks.

And now my life reads like a badly scripted soap. Am about to proceed with divorce, distressingly he is still living in the same house as me and the children and he has reached heights (or should that be lows?) of jaw-dropping awfulness.

But I just wanted to come back and say thank you for the wise words that MNers took the time to post, for the support and the tough love, both of value in equal measure. And hopefully back on MN under my usual name xx

Plan was, at solicitor's suggestion, to gradually get the kids used to seeing us separately, not as a family - hence no days out together - but in a secure environment, given their ages and he has no family home of his own. When he comes over I go out/do something else.

But really I think the house move will mark a big turning point for everyone.

yes, not my intention at all, he's benefiting from what was designed to benefit the children

OW is so welcome to this child man

Yes, the house move should make a very defining mark in the sand

No more cosy naps in your beds, no more turning up when he feels like it, no more tea and sympathy from the wife he gave up, no more "still man of the house"

will the different geography be enough to effect such a change ? I hope so..

and when he came over today, you didn't "go out/do something else"

he had a nap in your house, while you took the kids out

something is wrong there

this time I will shut up

No, honestly it's fine AF. The stern tellings off are just as valuable as the support.

And I've been trying to articulate why I'm so frustrated by his visits as they are not for the kids but for him, and how to steer change without upsetting the children or wrecking what I am putting in place. Have to say how content I am when he's not here (which is the surprising bit, as I really feared being on my own in the evenings after the children had gone to bed).

My ILs obviously feel his visits are not quite right either as they keep telling me to be tougher and would rather see him flounder. But they keep forgetting that financially we are dependent on him working. It's that bloody fine line. I would like to see the relationship with OW go tits up and for him to get well and find a healthy relationship that my kids could be a part of.

But two weeks ago he thought he could bring his washing round, 4 weeks ago we told the children and he moved out and I disentangled our finances, in April/May we were in marriage counselling, following a pointless March of trying to salvage things. Having been together 21 yrs, these months have bought about some of the biggest changes in my life and certainly for the children the long-term consequences are massive.

And this morning the kids and I had plans to go out. My mindset was no way was his early arrival going to upset those plans as he had mucked the children around enough the other day by cancelling on them and they were all excited. No way were they going to be disappointed again so just left, no sympathy/confrontation, which I knew he was after.

You don't have to explain yourself to me, you know (or anyone else)

My observations are just that. Not designed to undermine your own way of doing things, simply to highlight his manipulation of your good will.

He owes you much.

He certainly will end up owing you his relationship with his children. I wonder if he acknowledges that at all.

VB - this is all horrible for you

For his parents to say you do too much and they would rather he flounder, is a massive thing. Most parents would back their son, see no wrong in him and some would even blame you. This must tell you all you need to know about him.

You really do need to detach. I understand about the work situation, but this is so confusing. He left for OW, because he wanted to. He should be happy and she should be the one supporting him. A happy person would not need you to prop him up, he would be getting enough from her. Obviously this relationship isn't the love story he thought it would be.

But this is none of your problem. Whilst I appreciate your need to "shore him up", I do think you need to gradually detach more.

It is confusing for the kids to see their dad come and go to the family home but not stay there. Especially as he makes himself at home. This I think is the first thing you need to tackle. Arranged times for him to see the kids. At a neutral place perhaps - could be his parents? Or this time of the year, meet up in the park. You don't have to do this all the time, but to start with gradually introduce a few meetings at a neutral setting. This will be good for the kids, as it's less confusing, and good for you. Most importantly it's placing boundaries for him - he is the father of the kids - he can see them. He can't though continue waltzing whenever it suits him, become dad at home, then go home.

Does he have keys to your house? If so, I would get the locks changed. Keep the doors locked at all times, and if he turns up unannounced and you don't feel strong enough to tell him that it's inconvenient, then ignore him. Make it clear that you love him seeing the kids - but it has to be at agreed times - you will meet him with kids - and then collect kids from him. You can then do your own thing, and he will get the message.

Right now, he holds all the cards - emotionally - he's playing the vulnerable card. Financially - if he gets upset he might now pay up. This has to change. Do it slowly, but please formulate a plan - because otherwise this could go on forever, regardless of whether he gets a house or not.

Be sure that things aren't great with the OW - if he was getting all he needed from her, he wouldn't need you so much. But that's his problem. He made his bed, he can lie in it - (and not any of yours anymore!).

Yes, you definitely need to be firm about his access to the house - he doesn't get to take naps there, or baths either (for some reason there seems to be a common factor with arsehole men whos XWs are trying to keep things civil for the DC and that's insisting on taking baths or showers at the family home. It's very much pissing on the territory IMO). Like AF says, get the finances sorted as quickly as possible then you can stop worrying about having to prop up this whiny tosspot's ego at the expense of your own.

Nothing to add to all the good advice here except to say that sleeping in the house is a form of territory marking for him as SGB says, and it must stop. When he says he is tired or needs a nap, stand up or hold the front door open for him and say 'well see you next time you have a scheduled visit so'. You absolutely need to remove the bed or whatever he sleeps on from that room, and get a key for your bedroom. You need to hold firm to the scheduled visits and no dropping in. I suggest a time frame where he can phone the DCs, and certain days too. The stricter you are with this man the better.

When you have your share of the house profits, rent. Buying will involve too much cash outlay and you will feel more confident with a nice cushion under you. You won't be so dependent on him financially if you have something stashed away in the bank and you won't feel so obliged to tiptoe around his fragility .

Loads to ponder, thank you.

Have told him no to sleeping here, day or night. It confuses the kids. Didn't want to dismantle the bed as house is set to sell (not quite baking bread and brewing coffee but close!) so was just frank with him.

Saffysmum, I need to give your ideas much more thought. The advice has been up until now that because of their ages (1, a young 5 (hearing impaired) and 7) that he meet them in the family home and I withdraw so they see him without me, but in a place they are secure given how young they are, building up to him taking them out more on his own which he did this afternoon. He's very capable with all 3 really. No family nearby who could act as drop off point. But meeting up in a park is certainly possible and will do that. But this detach is not aided by the fact he is finally pulling his weight regarding the house getting sold, speaking to the estate agent today and offering to mow the grass/keep on top of the garden which I just don't have the time for. Kids actually asked today to see his new home today but he said that was something for mummy and daddy to decide.

Other couples with young children who split up must manage this better. Spoke to my SIL for some practical advice but she has lots of family nearby and her ex takes their son to his parents, so a day out isn't literally a day out. Maybe the children do need to go to his shared house if the housemates/landlord allows it, but it really isn't ideal.

Renting appears so expensive - small 3 bed is £300 more, at least, than the current mortgage on 4 bed detached. How do people afford it?

My instincts do tell me I am broadly taking the right path, it sits right with me and for the children, both short and long term, to be civilised in the dealings with their father - not for him, but for them. Having had a massive change in their lives with their father leaving, my dcs are about to face even more upheaval, leaving behind the security of a small old fashioned town to move to a busy suburb, new school, new nursery and having to make new friends (something worrying both to a degree) - so the security of home feels very important. Tweaks and changes will be made in the current arrangements until I and the kids are content,and if H benefits well [shrug].

Tactically too, with him confiding in me, I know what's coming and can plan for it.

Re him confiding: the OW's husband now knows about H. So do her children. So does everyone. MN instincts about all not happy in RemovedFromRealityLand are spot on. I asked does this mean they're moving in together but apparently not.

VB - one cautionary note to add to the others on the back of what you've just said.

Him confiding in you - DO NOT TRUST WHAT HE SAYS. He may say one thing to you and something completely different to OW/other people. This is Normal in this situation and is designed to keep you guessing really, and also to minimise any fall-out to himself.

OK, he may be above board but it's worth staying sceptical, I promise. My ex-fiancé started off agreeing we needed to sell our house and ended up deciding he was going to move his new woman in there in my place instead. It took a few months for that to come out but it was utterly devastating! and that was without any DC in the mix. I'm not suggesting that your H will attempt the same re. the sale of your house, as you've said, he can't afford it - but just be wary that it isn't in his best interests to tell you the whole truth as it can be unpalatable and therefore earn repercussions for him.

Good point.

At present don't think he's filtering very much, in fact if he thought at all he wouldn't be telling me half of what he does.

There is no doubt that OW is encouraging him to go for half the house and contents which she thinks is her his right - given she must now realise he doesn't have much money, it's all tied up in the house. However, have explained to him that it won't work like that - that the law will take into account 3 young children who need a roof over their heads, plus pension offsetting, plus most of contents will deemed essentials (unless he was offering to buy me new ones!) plus my very reasonable stance on downsizing which I don't need to do to reduce mortgage.....and he admits she isn't very well informed.

Am assuming she's been looking at the house online since it's up for sale.

It's very scary when that starts happening. In my sis's case, her H went off with a much older woman who thought that she'd be able to get half her family home and half of his too. Luckily my sis had no DC with him but she managed to keep hold of the house by renouncing her claim to his inheritance from his mum (a large amount!). The dozy OW had also failed to take into account that her own H was disabled - and he refused to divorce her, which meant they had to wait 5y to start divorce proceedings without his consent and I don't think she got him to sell the house even then.

You're doing really well, VB - glad that you're finding your own company good and enjoying the release - hope it does continue to go more smoothly for you. :)

But this for him is just a throwaway comment (he has no idea really what that reveals about the OW) and thinks this just shows how uninformed OW is.

He is far more concerned that OW won't leave to live with him. He asked theoretically can a 16 yr old decide where they live and I laughed and said courts take into account a child's wishes from the age of 10 and looked alarmed. OW does not know this. The eldest has already said he want to live with whoever stays put (and OW's H has ignored all requests to leave so far) and the youngest child (not quite 10) is a daddy's girl, despite H's saying that he is a drunken bully.

H is desperate for reassurance from OW and is complaining he isn't getting it -which is bonkers given her circs (her kids finding out/funeral of father this week). He speaks of deleting her on his mobile to give her space and then constantly checking his phone. The level of immaturity and self-centeredness is mind-boggling.

Thanks Thumbwitch - and hope your sister is much happier without him.

God, he's doing his mid-life crisis with a vengeance, isn't he? TBH, I can't see this relationship working out for either of them - but I doubt you want him back now either - so he's screwed, isn't he! He might have to live by himself and look after himself for a while!

Naturally you told him where the laundrette was when he brought his washing round for you? He'll need to know, by the sound of it.

Stupid, stupid man. Along with all the other stupid, stupid men who do this after ~20y being with their partner/wife.

VB - you know, in one way she is (she now has her DC) but in another way she still misses him. He did let her get away with a huge amount of diva-ish behaviour (in her words, "treated her like a princess") but he was never going to have children with her - too much of a child himself - and I think she paints a more rosy picture of what her life was like with him than is the reality. Her current DP might not be ideal (what man is?) but he's a good father and he's there and he loves the DC and her - he just doesn't "look after her" in the same way.

And thank you Smum for your message, you are very kind to take the time and it's helped tremendously

Sounds like a case of the grass is greener with your sister, Thumbwitch. I know which sounds the healthier and more adult relationship.

And nope, not a chance of him coming back, but equally he doesn't want to, so convinced he is that they'll be blissfully happy, only if everyone else would be far more reasonable (or that's the gist). And maybe they are both so needy and blinkered that they will be.

Earlier I wished that he would get well and meet someone else that the dcs could form a relationship with, but not sure I'd foist him off on any poor woman! Seriously, I do wonder and worry about the state of his mental health.

I think you're handling it brilliantly - and are really prioritising the kids' needs. Your solicitor sounds a smart cookie too. Best of luck with it all.

VB - yes I agree with you re. my sister - she was very immature herself as well and has had to grow up rather a lot, which she would probably never have achieved if her exH had stayed. But she resents it.

Apart from how it affects your your DC, I wouldn't dwell too much on the state of his mental health. There is nothing you can do to help him any more - it's down to him to deal with it - all you can do is tell him if/when it starts affecting the DC that he HAS to sort it out or for their safety he won't be able to spend time with them.The rest is up to him.