ValentineBombshell: well it went tits up but thank you

[ValentineBombshell]

Hello to anyone who remembers me from, as my name suggests, way back in February. Am a long time MN regular whose H confessed to kissing a colleague at work/an EA.

original thread here

Had to step away from MN for a bit as everything just imploded. Of course he hadn't just kissed her, it was all far more tawdry than that, she'd been giving him blowjobs in carparks.

And now my life reads like a badly scripted soap. Am about to proceed with divorce, distressingly he is still living in the same house as me and the children and he has reached heights (or should that be lows?) of jaw-dropping awfulness.

But I just wanted to come back and say thank you for the wise words that MNers took the time to post, for the support and the tough love, both of value in equal measure. And hopefully back on MN under my usual name xx

Text from H apologising about today. "Missing dc3 manifested itself in to missing him much more. I am fine now. If I am off work tomorrow could I see dc3, please? And can I have dc1&2 only to say over Fri 1st-Sat 2nd to see XX (name of school production). I will collect dc3 on Sat morning for music." Then there is more about not sure about when music term ends and a reminder for dc1 to practise.

I'm at home Mon & Tues with dc3, (work p/t so can be with the dcs), hence his request about tomorrow. Haven't raised the issues arising from last weekend's sleepover with him, was going to save that for mediation.

Have put together, but haven't sent yet, an email refusing H's request for the sleepover for the older two dcs, because of all the things that upset the dcs last time. Of course he still sees them on Fri eve and Saturday, as part of his access, so it feels, I don't know, a bit petty??

Regarding seeing dc3 tomorrow, I know dc3 would love an hour or two with his Dad...would it be soft to let H take him out?

would it be good for DC3? Would it be good for you? Would it intrude upon your day and destroy yours (and DCs') calm?

Finally, would it appear to offer your DH a reward for bad behaviour?

VB, have lurked on your threads since the beginning, and wanted to say you're doing so well. And you're also a much better person than me. I would have gone Crazy with a capital C if my DH had left my children alone in the house for even a few minutes.

Not helpful in maintaining good relations, but there you go.

I know it's your life and all, and you are thinking of the children, but I don't think you should let your H see DC3 tomorrow. People are always talking about the importance of routine for kids in these situations, and he hasn't shown any ability to stick to a routine.

Why should your children be picked up (metaphorically) and dropped when it suits him? What does it say to your children about how he views them? They should always know when and where they'll see him, as a minimum and any changes they can then integrate into their psyches as unavoidable and necessary. As it stands, this ad hoc thing suits only him and tells the children (with his behaviour) that the most important person in the world - to you, them and him - is him.

I'm prepared to take a flaming for this, but you really need to start showing them that they are more important than him. That you're prepared to do all you can to keep things on an even keel, even if it means taking the tears and upset when you have to say no in the next few weeks/months leading up to mediation to his sudden imposition of 'fun' stuff.

That sort of thing should be a bonus FOR THEM on top of the regular arrangements, not something he decides he wants for him and they - and you - have to go along with.

Feel free to ignore and flame me, but that's what I get from your posts. He is still calling the shots and as soon as one tactic doesn't work, he switches to another.

Good luck, you really are doing well.

x

Well said and so true, Enuffalready.

Had a busy morning what with getting tyres changed, shopping, then having to collect dc1 from school as he's got a temperature/swollen eye so then off to the chemist to get eye-drops for conjunctivitis. Gave dcs lunch and now hopefully dc3 is down for a long nap.

Texted H, having heard no more, to say I assumed he was back at work today but that visiting dc3 would not have worked out anyway given how busy I've been. Then had a text to say he was in the next village. No idea why. But because I have dc1 at home, unwell, I do not want him disrupted by H, in whatever mood he's in.

No flaming Enuffalready, am repeating to myself your words "even keel for dcs, even keel". Know I need a harder/firmer mindset when it comes to H and I need to be able to see his actions for what they are, like when blackcurrants pointed out his upset/depression about Christmas was for himself and not for the children.

Suppose I was worried I was getting into a default 'No' setting with regards anything that H proposes, just because it was H, iyswim. And there is no doubt dc3 would have loved seeing his dad this morning but as it turned out it wasn't convenient and none of the dcs know he's off work, as then they'll worry again about H being 'poorly' which for them means Daddy crying a lot.

I am worried that he is further scuppering his career whilst we are financially dependent by taking time off work for depression.

Further accusations have been made against him at work, minor things, but the kind that indicate the head is gunning for him. How much trouble H is in though is really hard to ascertain. MA's assessment of him is right in a sense - to be even handed, he is (was, maybe?) a charismatic and very good teacher, much liked by students and parents, because he gets things done and gets v good results. But that was when I 'knew' him. He will have upset a couple of senior people who don't do their jobs very well (i.e not following proper procedure on disruptive kids and having them excluded as it looks bad on the stats) and then of course there is his affair with a colleague which is a complete no-no in his kind of workplace. He doesn't read the situation well - he has a new head, keen to stamp his authority on the school, who has come from outside the state school system, the kind not concerned with breaking a few rules here and there on employment law if it gets him what he wants, and a staff all jostling to keep their posts or move up the promotional ladder who won't gainsay anything the HT does. H is a fool to have given them any leverage at all.

Been thinking about you Valentine. Hope things are coming together for a peaceful Christmas for you and your DC.

I've been a lurker on your thread for a while, Valentine. I've nothing to offer in the way of advice, as I haven't been in a similar situation, but I just wanted to say that I have admired the way you have handled things with your difficult Ex-H and the problems he has caused. I hope you and your DCs have a wonderful Christmas and a happy and settled New Year.

Hello again Valentine. Have also been thinking about you lately - hoping no news is good news...

Have a lovely Christmas and New Year with your dcs. All the best.

I've also been thinking of you VB. Hope you and your DC have the wonderful Christmas you all deserve and that your STBXH has the lonely Christmas he deserves... catty, moi?!

You really are an inspiration with the way you have coped. :)

Hi all . Thank you for your good wishes for Christmas and hope yours are peaceful and merry.

Am pleased to say that all has been quiet on the home front. In terms of getting on and being a dad to the dcs there has nary been a ripple.

Unfortunately H pulled out of mediation last week before it even started. He thought I was paying for it all. When he got the email making clear the shared costs he rang to say it was too expensive. He said he was worried about the cost of petrol to get to mediation, let alone the cost of mediation itself. I felt bad he was so strapped for money as I know what that feels like and offered to pay it all but he said he wasn't ready to attend (he is still off work with depression).

Today I was sifting through what I though was junk mail for recycling, and found that H has signed up for another mobile phone at £34 a month. I asked the dcs if H had a new phone, he doesn't, which would be strange aa he and I are both tied into an existing phone contract that we took out when together, that has another 9 months to run. This new phone is in his name, using this address. So maybe a Christmas present for someone.

He is still pulling your strings then If he is struggling financially that really is his problem. Not yours any longer. I would be bloody livid if he was using my address to tie into contracts etc. though!

The welfare of the children was the priority which is why I offered to pay the initial cost of mediation (it would be a stretch but could manage), although if he were paying his own way he would have a vested interest in getting the most out of it. But that's by the by now.

Am thinking of writing 'no such person at this address' on the mobile phone envelope and return to sender. Am guessing he has used this address to register the phone for OW? Friend suggested sending a unique 'welcome to Orange' text message

Am disappointed but not surprised he considers this a financial priority rather than sorting the children's long term future through mediation.

I've just read this whole thread and, well, fucking hell! You are amazingly strong and restrained. I have so much admiration for the way you are handling all this. I just wanted to let you know this and send you my love and thoughts.x

I've been thinking about you this week, VB (getting ready for xmas and everything) and I'm glad to hear you're doing well.

What're your steps now that he's refused mediation? You really, really need to get things clarified legally, especially if he's doing things that could damage your credit history, like taking out a phone contract he can't afford at your address.

I would definitely be doing a 'return to sender'. He shouldn't be using your address to rack up debts.

As for mediation, I understand this is your priority because of the dcs but yet again he has put himself first.

Hadn't really thought about him accruing debts against the house. Am a bit worried. Why hasn't he used his own address to register the phone?

Will be definitely returning to sender.

Hi, first VB I am totally on your side and went through a very, very similar scenario 7 years ago. I do have some advice which you might not like but someone gave it to me so I'm passing it on.

I think you have to stop trying to control his actions regarding the OW. Having been there I think you're motivated by more jealousy and fear than you care to admit (I know I was). It will really help you to let go of him/the marriage if you just let him get on and make the decisions regarding his and his kids relationship with the OW. From what you've said he's a selfish prick but loves his kids. I don't think hanging out with the OW will damage your kids, even if your ex and she end up splitting up (which they probably won't tbh- they both know it's last chance saloon for them both so will cling on for grim death!).

I think as long as you're trying to put limits on how much involvement this woman has in your kids' (and therefore their dad's) lives, you're still letting him in your head too much. Let them get on with it. Let him succeed or fail. I promise you, your kids will be ok. They have you and you're ace; their dad and extended family love them. The OW is probably not evil. It'll be ok. I would really adise you to back off on this issue. Be business-like and calm. Tbh he will feed off the fact that you are clearly still angry and jealous as he will feel he still has a hold oer you and that will make him feel powerful.

Hope this doesn't piss you off. I think you're very cool and really wish you well.

and just to be clear- this OW may have supplanted you in HIS affections but your kids will NEVER, EVER love her even the tiniest fration of the amount they love you- so don't even worry about that for a second. Again, I'm speaking from experience :) Don't waste your time being jealous of your kids relationship with her- you have no need to.

I have to say I disagree there, LP. There has been lots more than just the issue with the OW going on here - demonstrating that this man is not capable of being much of a father, that he is using the children and the flexible visitation thing as a way of being a thorn in VB's side instead of trying to use his time with the DCs to foster a relationship with them or help them get through the upset in their lives.

The entire thread is sprinkled with requests by him to change arrangements, incidents where they have been picked up late and dropped off either early or late, things he meant to tell her but can't remember, remarks to her in their hearing - he is playing games here and being a complete jerk. VB needs to stand her ground on every single issue where she has drawn a line up to now or he will continue the barrage. If she gives an inch on anything he will redouble his efforts, not because he cares about the individual silly issues he brings up (hungry on Saturday mornings, etc) but because he has to have her engaged in this struggle. He has to keep her engaged because he can't stand to have no relationship, or a relationship of mutual indifference with her. He must have that attention. Giving in will not do anything for VB and will not teach the exH how to behave. It will encourage him to keep up the niggling.

The DCs will be ok because they have VB as a mother, but this man can count only as far as 1, even when he has his children with him. That will not change.

Send back any post addressed to him with 'No longer at this address/ return to sender" written on the envelope. Call the phone company and tell them your ex no longer lives there, that you have no contact information, and that they are not to use that address for him any more. I get the odd piece of post of exH's still, including on three occasions parking tickets from different places where exH went on business and parked his rented cars, which he had rented using my address. Just confirms to me that exH hasn't changed his careless/carefree approach to all things driving related. Ask your solicitor about debts against the house, how they may be tracked, etc. Maybe the mortgage bank would have to be informed about such liens, and certainly whoever holds the title would be..

I did think about contacting the mobile phone company directly, but ruled it out as thought that was a tad 'spurned exwife' and wondered if H still has the right to use the address, after all he is still on the mortgage and will be until the finances are settled/we move. He still might be if he has to pay spousal (which looks v likely) and the mortgage company require him to be on the mortgage (one of my holiday 'projects' is to find out realistically what the mortgage company will offer and under what conditions) - but surely at some point he must stop being able to use the house as security?

As if to chime in with MA's post, H is asking for the hard-drive and some board game from the house. It's no skin off my nose personally. He is crying again as he drops off/ picks up, but at least the children haven't noticed or have got used to it.

Had a irksome day: car now residing in GPs car park, the automatic key fob having failed. Walked home in the freezing rain, carrying poorly dc3, breakdown people polite but inefficient. Has a minor logistical knock on effect to dcs seeing H tomorrow so he phoned to as if I "needed rescuing" and offered to lend me his so I can leave the car in the garage and be able to go out, but it would mean "coming over in two cars". Politely declined his offer. Don't know if I'm cutting my nose off to spite my face, but feel really resistant to having his help.

LadyPeter, your post has resonated with me and am very sorry you have gone through similar. Am so conscious that my own feelings (not really dealt with but pushed to one side) blinker me and kicks up the arse, even kindly one with the best of motives, are needed!

You are right, I am not going to like my dcs having a relationship with the OW and always when my personal opinions threaten to govern my actions, I have to keep asking myself 'is this right/good for the dcs?" and if it is, do my best to go with it.

There are a whole set of irrationalities at work that I acknowledge:
I do feel animosity towards the OW for trampling over my marriage, my happiness and the children?s (I've never understood women who have no sense of sisterhood). And it is irrational as OW owes me nothing. Am fully aware that it's H who let me down repeatedly, he's the one that has hurt us all and yes, affairs happen in marriages - even in what feels like strong ones.
I look at what H has become and am immeasurably sad. Arrogant I know, but he was a better man when with me.

And you are right, there is fear there, as I look at H and think bloody hell, you say you are happy and that?s what she?s done to you! And then I look at the dcs who are so much more vulnerable. But the reality is H has done this to himself. And imho H & OW have pretty low moral paremeters, or maybe just weak and selfish ones; normally when dcs are this young you can choose who they keep company with - but not in this case.

So that's all my internal venom and angst out the way!

But issues of leaving dcs alone and exposing them to threat I simply cannot accept and it makes trusting his decision-making very hard as it's been so damn poor. I did think him behaving like a callous moron only applied to his conduct regarding our marriage and that he could be relied on to look after the children both physically and emotionally - but apparently not and it's left me watchful, with a prescription for Gaviscon Extra, and yes, for sure, more controlling re the dcs than I have ever been or is in my nature to be. Following the latest, H is being more scrupulous regarding dcs' welfare (the other aspects like non breakfast/left standing outside shops are side issues, but were distressing the dcs, and I thought well in for a penny in for a pound) but he is back to being 'depressed'/off work and it's often immediately following this state that problems have arisen before.

Did try to explain to H, who failed to see any value in mediation, that mediation was the positive way forward for the dcs and for him. The other option that was advised open to me was to withdraw access and he then apply to the court to see the dcs (which would cost him a lot more than mediation ever could) but he just cried at the 'thought' of not being able to see the dcs.

Current obstacles are H's married lover living with violent husband and the son making threats against H. I might prefer that H tries to establish himself as stepfather to her dcs before experimenting on mine, and get his depression under control when with the dcs, but I have no control over that. Likewise I have no interest in what H does in his own life (he tells me he is 'unavailable' after Christmas) as long as he stays gainfully employed - that is my big fear. It just is so messy and H caught up in the ebb and flo of it all; dcs need a settled situation.