ValentineBombshell: well it went tits up but thank you

[ValentineBombshell]

Hello to anyone who remembers me from, as my name suggests, way back in February. Am a long time MN regular whose H confessed to kissing a colleague at work/an EA.

original thread here

Had to step away from MN for a bit as everything just imploded. Of course he hadn't just kissed her, it was all far more tawdry than that, she'd been giving him blowjobs in carparks.

And now my life reads like a badly scripted soap. Am about to proceed with divorce, distressingly he is still living in the same house as me and the children and he has reached heights (or should that be lows?) of jaw-dropping awfulness.

But I just wanted to come back and say thank you for the wise words that MNers took the time to post, for the support and the tough love, both of value in equal measure. And hopefully back on MN under my usual name xx

Am not sure Thumb how to deal with it if he goes his own sweet way

Any advice please?

Oh yes, he's had the snip - a 40th birthday present arranged by yours truly

I haven't any direct experience of it myself but I'm sure that someone else will have who can offer experienced advice on what to do!
Legally is the only way I can think of; restricting him to supervised access only if he breaches what has already been agreed - but I don't know if you want to go that far.

Has he explained to the DC why he has left yet? He needs to do that. Preferably (sorry) while you are there, so you know EXACTLY what he has said to them because from the snidey remarks he has been making so far, I wouldn't trust him to behave properly over telling them either. Once he has told them, then you can introduce the possibility of the OW (I know you don't want to but it's inevitable, I'm afraid) - even if this one doesn't work out, I expect that your H will have another one soon enough after, so talking about "daddy's woman friend" (she ain't no lady! [hwink]) might have to happen.

Wow, he's a piece of work. Sadly my ex is almost as deluded and idiotic. So I empathise totally.

he really is vile. But I suspect Thumb has the truth of it- you may as well be ready for it.
Alas.

Am steeling myself.

H just collected the children (late to get them to music), he was all red-eyed and couldn't meet my gaze. Asked him what time he was returning them - said he'd let me know! I pointed out that response wasn't considerate, so he said "4 then." Tried to discuss with him but not open to anything so then tried to tell him that plans for the children need to be thought out and communicated, they need preparing for change as have done all the way through to take into account other factors in their lives (apart from H's own selfish agenda - didn't say that bit) but H couldn't look at me. Doesn't bode well does it?

But he is so short-term. Not having me on side regarding the kids relationship with him and OW is foolish imo. He also expects that I provide everything the kids need for the time with their father, barring food now (he gives them sandwiches), so this morning he wanted the pram, all dc3's paraphernalia, swimming kit (might/might not go swimming), music bits which of course I do, it's for the dcs. Or if they have an overnight with him (only the once so far in the summer hols but think he would like them to stay over in the half term) then I dig out sleeping bags, travel cot etc. I don't know, maybe this is normal and what all single mum's do for their dcs even when their ex is being an twunt, but it just feels like he assumes a great deal and that trampling over what's good for the kids will have few consequences.

When he has a proper set up, he should have most of the normal day-to-day stuff there already. However, stuff like swimming gear and music stuff, no, you would expect to have to share that between homes, I think. (Only costumes, goggles etc. though, not towels! He can use his own towels) He can also set up bedding for them himself too.

Has he told them what he's doing and why he's left yet?

So, assuming H remains true to form, behaves completely selfishly and the children meet OW & OW's kids, what then? Am deliberating over what to say to the dcs, as I think it needs to be prepared for, but don't have the magic answers this morning.

I can't help you unless you can say whether or not your H has told them what is going on. Your answers/what you say to your DC is highly dependent on that and I can't remember whether you have said or not already.

OK, so the stuff I provide is pretty normal. Was wondering about that after H said, "I want the pram," like I was a skivvy and then into the silence added a very belated "please"!

The children know H left because we didn't get on any more and didn't love each other but it was all his fault - H's version - but he loved them very much, as I insisted he be the one to tell them, which he did well to his credit I thought, although he then promptly skedaddled to the OW.

The dcs naturally have asked me in moments of reflection why was it daddy's fault/why don't I love him any more and so they know that H stopped loving mummy and I was very sad about that but am ok now. They've told me 'daddy wasn't very nice to you", and they also know, after asking why did daddy have to leave even though he doesn't love you, he wanted to live on his own, but he still loves them (just not enough!)

The have met OW as one of Daddy's friends and work colleagues - as that's what he told them she was. I have not told them Daddy has a gf - was going to delay that so there was clear water between him leaving and OW appearing in their lives. Am very resistant to H dictating the pace on this as it paves the way for questions that might not do 'Daddy' any credit and for more upset for the dcs who are only just settled, with occasional bumps from H's ill-considered remarks. Am so conscious of first Christmas for them without H and the looming issue of moving house/school (although nothing happening on the house sale front so maybe unfair to factor that in)

It seem clear that he is going to coerce the issue with OW and her children, from his selfish and skewed position I suppose he feels that that is 'right' ie it's right for him and OW so bugger anyone else. I think the fact that he wants them all to go bowling, to play happy families in a forced social situation shows just how far off the mark he is as to the current situation. But you know all that anyway.

Just a thought... you mentioned him being all red eyed. You don't think it's going tits up with OW again do you, and this is his method of pushing everyone together so he can get some stick tape and glue them all together?

OK - I hope that someone with more child-experience in these situations will come along soon but I'm thinking that if he does take them to see the OW & her DC, you stick with her being "Daddy's friend" for now and see what questions they ask. Much will depend on how he behaves with her in front of them - if he's quite restrained, then "Daddy's friend" will continue to do - but if he gets all loveydovey with her in front of them then they might ask awkard questions. It's been nearly 4m since you started this thread now so it could constitute clear water, I suppose (although ideally longer would be better).

Re. the Christmas issue - the only thing I would "give in" on would be to let him be there for Christmas present opening on Christmas morning. But he would have to turn up for a couple of hours and then feck off again. And you wouldn't be able to tell them he was coming in case the selfish tosser failed to appear. If nothing is happening now on the house move front, I doubt it will now before Christmas. Bad time of year for house buying! So I wouldn't worry about it now until the New Year.

I am so sorry that you and every other person going through this shit has to deal with such crap - the only good thing (at the time) about my big break-up is that there were no children involved, so I didn't have to keep seeing the nobber - it would have half-killed me to hand over my precious children to the nobber and the OW, so you have all my sympathy.

Fenella - tut!
VB is trying to distance herself from anything going on with her H apart from to do with the DC - she's not allowed to think about what's going on in his life with regards to the OW!
VB - ignore his red eyes - for all you know he might have a cold!

I wish!

If H had split up with OW he'd be on the front lawn weeping for me to take him back. No, he's either upset about work; heard a sad song on the radio; feels guilty about the crap thing he's going to do today but is going to do it anyway; or momentarily fallen out with the OW. H & OW's relationship is very teenage, alot of it's by bb messenger, they 'remove' each other whenever they wound each other, either by H's blunt/unkind comments or her passive aggression.

Hence my resistance to the dcs being involved. I really want H & OW to live together first and have the realities of her kids in the mix, let it bed down and then introduce the dcs. But that's what I want, not what he wants.

Christmas is sorted although must get round to telling H. Have been reluctant as he will spend months being spiteful/thinking of ways to put a spanner in the works but bite the bullet I must.

hmmm. maybe he wants to test out how well the DC will mix with the OW and her DC - you'd like to think if they didn't get on he'd back off with the OW but I guess that would be too much to hope for!

Can't believe the teen-agedness of the "removing" thing - that's amazingly pathetic!!

BB messenger and 'removing' each other? Jeeze...

So kids need to know about existence of OW - who they know as daddy's TA - and who she really is?

The sort of question I am concerned about is 'was she Daddy's gf when he was married to you?" (since they met her then) or those throw you for a loop ones, that dc1 specialises in. E.g. They sort of understand that Daddy doesn't go to any family events any more, because he's left and IL's didn't agree with what daddy did, and that's why I take them to see the ILs - but not precisely why. And then came the matter-of-fact long list from dcs about who else doesn't want to see Daddy any more which was pretty much everyone they knew!

Whilst I might have to swallow any concerns I have for the dcs' well being when with these emotional incontinents (sorry, bitchy emoticon), if he does take the kids bowling today with her, then I am going to insist on mediation that'll cost ££ he doesn't want to spend, as just cannot live with his flailing his selfish wants in any random direction with no thought to the dcs. Do think part of the problem is that he won't discuss things or listen long enough to hear about the bigger picture, and he operates in a wilderness of me, me, right now, me, ow and me - so maybe mediation will be useful?

What you tell dc's does depend on what they know already and dc's often know more (or have imagined more more) that we think. I agree that you swill need to prepare dc's as I think the ex will push for her contact. I just don't get why parents rush to introduce the partner however if it's a low key meeting and the ex continues to be an engaged parent then I would have less concerns.The key to this is how he parents when with OW and it doesn't feel as if their life is stable..I assume OW is still with husband??
If your ex doesn't believe your instincts (or your solicitors experience) would he read books on parents..Putting children first - a handbook for separated parents advises a time period for adjustment before introducing a new partner.

My dh's ex rushed a new man into her life to play happy families with his children. The dc's initially got on well but then had issues, mostly jealousy and anger at having to share parents and the adults were not prepared. They hardly knew each other let alone negotiate good boundaries for the dc's. Your ex will have to learn to co-parent 4 dc's with OW and that takes exceptional communication skills and emotional maturity...initially it feels so do'able but then the challenges appear.

I do think you are doing so well and your dc's are incredibly fortunate to have you..do hold on to that thought - you can get them through your ex's stupidity and selfishness.

much more..

H's text: I am sorry for my tone earlier and apologised immediately. Today the kids could go bowling at 4ish but they are not allowed near OW & OW's dd & X (no idea who X is) because of an agreement I made. There is nothing in law which says this is to be the case except if the children are in danger of being harmed which they are not. However, I have agreed to this and will only proceed with this sort of meeting when we agree together as this is the respectful way. The children would not be harmed and have not suffered through previous meetings and playing with OW's dd and X (a long time ago)

He is an idiot. He is taking the "harmed" thing waaaaayy too literally and ignoring any emotional fallout. Do NOT reply!!

Or, if you must reply, just send "Good."

How often have they met and played with OW's DD?? Was that before you knew of the affair?

I do not know.