ValentineBombshell: well it went tits up but thank you

[ValentineBombshell]

Hello to anyone who remembers me from, as my name suggests, way back in February. Am a long time MN regular whose H confessed to kissing a colleague at work/an EA.

original thread here

Had to step away from MN for a bit as everything just imploded. Of course he hadn't just kissed her, it was all far more tawdry than that, she'd been giving him blowjobs in carparks.

And now my life reads like a badly scripted soap. Am about to proceed with divorce, distressingly he is still living in the same house as me and the children and he has reached heights (or should that be lows?) of jaw-dropping awfulness.

But I just wanted to come back and say thank you for the wise words that MNers took the time to post, for the support and the tough love, both of value in equal measure. And hopefully back on MN under my usual name xx

VB, I don't know what is best either wrt to specifics

but you really need to stop giving him the benefit of the doubt and assuming he has yours and particularly the kids best interests at heart

he hasn't

he is proving that over and over

look at his actions not his words

look at all of them since this whole sorry business started

what do you see ?

Another one delurking here in absolute horror. I had a parent like your XH.

Completely agree with what others have written - but anyway I'll post the stuff I've kept writing and deleting since last night.

1. You're basing some of your decisions on "XH has said..." Why?

He has shown you time and time again that his words might as well be the wind in the trees if you're looking for truth in them. He says exactly what he thinks will get him what he wants, without the least trace of restraints like integrity, or concern for others, or even fear of the law.

2. The situation where the DC didn't know about the OW is now over. In the new situation, the most damaging thing for the DC - and it is very damaging - is for them to feel they must (or are outright ordered to) keep secrets from you. You've had a taster of this but it's barely started.

Please go back to your solicitor and start getting heavy on the consequences, for the DC's sake.

Actually, it's hard to see how having a "relationship" with him is benefitting them at all right now. He is utterly without boundaries or interest in their welfare, and has shown zero scruples about using them to try to blackmail you - making them active agents in it, not just behind their backs.

I know you're worried about projecting your feelings into the DC's relationship with him, but looking from the outside, it's clear he's being a bastard to them.

You have been so strong, and so considerate, and tried to do the best for everyone. Sadly, it will never work with this creature that has emerged from under the shell of a man you once knew.

So sorry about all this.

De-lurking to add my voice to all the support you're already getting - you're doing an amazing job in really difficult circumstances.

Also really want to encourage you to inform your solicitor and see if she can write a letter for you - restating the visitation terms that you agreed on and saying that as he's admitted, he broke the agreed terms, it's not acceptable and if he does it again then you'll have to review your position.

I know you don't want to stop the kids seeing him, but you do want to stop him from distressing them and causing harm, and I think if you accept his tears and apologies and take no other action, what he'll hear is that he can do what he likes as long as he then apologises for it. (Like have an affair, for example). "Review your position" doesn't mean end contact; it could mean potentially moving to something supervised in some way so OW can't 'turn up accidentally'. (But hopefully the letter would convince him to keep her away from the kids until after you have reviewed the agreement together in May).

Good luck.

VB - I've been lurking on your thread since the beginning.

I think you are incredible. Seriously. You are dealing with so much. You are a very, very strong woman and a fantastically caring mother. You and your children sound like a wonderful family.

And to the posters on this thread who have given advice (although I have none to offer myself), you're all bloody wonderful too.

So there.

I'd think about threatening him.with supervised contact, frankly. And not for the sake of pettyness, but because you cant trust him to act intheir best interests at all. at all. I agree that he is manipulating you and if that doesnt "sound like him" remember it doesnt need to be conscious to be evil and manipulative.
I'm afraid your H is a liar. You already know that, but you need to say it to yourself now before you see him. "oh well, he's a liar, I dont believe a word of it."

Absolutely get a Sol. letter. He needs to see consequences for this, and you need to police and patrol your boundaries as if you were dealing with a bumptious and unappealling puppy, or a particularly trying toddler. Turn this anger into cold contempt and take him to the fucking cleaners. He only cares for himself, so you must care for your DCs and yourself.

Boundaries!

Keep a rolled up newspaper near your door where you can see it. It'll make you grin at least!

Yes, black I was thinking about this

He has no consequences has he ? All he did was say sorry and express disingenuous "surprise" that what he did was so wrong

I have to admit I am a more punitive person than VB, who is a more wonderful person than I

it's not helping her though, is it ?

this bloke should have been put in his place right from the beginning

it's not too late now, however

a solicitor's letter threatening that if the terms of contact are breached again, in any way, an application for supervised contact to prevent such a damaging unilateral decision being made again, would be a good start

VB, he is completely indulgent

• what benefit did it bring the children? He chose to focus on what harm it caused.The only benefit was to him - to parade your lovely dcs infront of OW or to demostrate his 'super dad' credentials to OW.
• why did he decide your dc's don't need to be shielded yet the OW's dc's are still being protected from the mess that he and OW have created. Is OW calling the shots in their relationship??? I suspect that it's the case and he will parent according to her screwed up values. This is a cause for concern as he may be highly influenced by her.
• He has lied to you - AGAIN - so has damaged your co-parenting relationship, he can't now decide that he will be truthful as I'm not sure he knows how.Surely he understands that lies damage any relationship!!!
• He has broken a legal agreement - I find that concerning as it sets a precedence.

I think your response to him was completely natural. His latest lies show that he is not the man you thought he was, he is not the father you hoped he would be and he is not the co-parent that you deserve. That is a realisation that will cut deep and make you feel alone but you are a highly capable women so your dc's will do very, very well (even if their dad has the maturity of a teenage boy!)

I agree with a solicitors letter warning of the consequences for breaking a formal agreement. Sadly your reasonable nature lets him think he will always have another chance.

VB - so sorry, I don't know how I lost track of you!
Have just been catching up and, while appalled at the developments, am not in the least bit surprised. :(

I think you must go the solicitor route, sorry. You really must make him see that he cannot wind you round his little finger/pull the wool over your eyes any more. He has lied, he has broken your trust in oh so many ways and worse than that, he is making the children a part of the deceit.

You said your DC1 could barely meet your eyes - poor child! What a thing to be faced with at his age, I'm sure he knew exactly who daddy's "friend" was - no doubt several children in his class at school have had similar scenarios in their lives, sadly. And he didn't want to hurt you, bless his heart. But he's too young to have that responsibility in his life and your H is a cunting bastard for giving it to him by even hinting that he should deceive you, either by commission or omission. Fucker.

So yes, whoever has said that threatening him with a supervised contact order from now on, since he can't be trusted to keep to the terms of a legal arrangement, I agree with them. Get the solicitors to write him a stinking letter about breach of agreements and outline the potential consequences - and be prepared for him to get Very Nasty about everything else. But do it anyway because you MUST show him that he cannot do this without consequence, or he'll keep dripping away, eroding more and more of your arrangements until you have no idea how to go back on anything because every little step was so minor, it's only when you look back that you see how much he has undermined your wishes.

So - put a stop to it now. Play hard ball now. And tell him to go fuck himself over Christmas, whenever he asks about it (which I take it he hasn't yet, as no doubt OW hasn't got her arrangements in place yet).

And in the meantime, have a (((hug))) because God knows you need it. :(

How has today been VB?

Agh, just realised I timed out on my response.

Have to dash as taking dc2 to hospital (non emergency) but just wanted to say thank you, thank you - you are all just amazing.

Spoke to my solicitor this morning and she advises:
1st) letter
2nd) mediation (her preferred option)
3rd) withdraw access (radical)

Have to put together an email for her about Friday and about his not sticking to access very well.

Oh and forgot to say Christmas sorted with my father and the ILs. H can go whistle.

Dcs know Daddy won't be there - they'd assumed it anyway, bless their hearts - but we had a talk whilst toasting our toes in front of the fire about whether FC could make it down the new fireplace, all the traditions we do at Christmas. I haven't said they will have a 2nd Christmas at Daddy's as have no confidence he will do so and don't want to raise their expectations.

oh well done VB! your post made me want to stand up and cheer- the brave and righteous action you are taking will make your family bond that much stronger, in time. Your DCs are lucky to have you looking out for them.

How are you doing? Hurt times are all part of it, but I hope your attitude, wary contmot for this drivelling selfish fool, helps you onwards.

Well done VB! better to have it all sorted now in a way that doesn't allow for him to let your DC down at the last minute (which would be an almost 90% certainty, I'd say).

Your solicitor seems to be very sensible as well. Good. :)

Excellent. Glad your solicitor is backing you up.
Your dcs seem to be very grounded - which is entirely down to you no doubt - and I'm glad they are able to be honest and comfortable with you. It says everything.
Don't feel that you are in any way responsible for what your h does or doesn't do at Christmas, that isn't down to you. He chose this, he made his decision. He can't expect everything to be forgotten and carry on as normal just because it is Christmas!

You are continuing to do well.

I hope you're having a good week, VB I am, for want of a less cringy word, rooting for you :)

Hope all is well with you VB, and if these fail, drink a few of these xx

Sorry haven't been on MN, RL has made it a manic week: work, various children's medical appointments and just stuff that gets in the way of MNing. Plus the older dcs, especially dc1, are misbehaving, which I'm assuming is as a reaction to events. We had a talk tonight about how it's ok to be sad and cross sometimes but they still have to do as they're told and how I love them but not the naughty behaviour.

H is set to return the dcs earlier this Saturday - he really doesn't get that as their Dad that shouldn't be an option; I can't just decide I don't fancy being mum for the day! I can't make him have access but to my mind, it's his loss.

Am going to bed now, lack of sleep is catching up, thanks for checking up on me

I have just read both of your threads, & just wanted to add my support.

The way you have conducted yourself throughout all of this is nothing short of amazing, you are inspiring.

You are a wonderful mother & your DCs are very lucky to have you.

wishing you the best of luck with everything x

VB - thing is, he's already made the choice that his family is "optional" so he's just going to continue down that path. He'll fight tooth and nail for his right to see them, but he may not honour his commitments to do so. That way he thinks he is being a "good Dad" - failing entirely to see that being a good Dad means putting your DC before your own selfish wants.

Your DC behaviour will probably settle down once things fall into a proper routine - so that needs to be your main aim now, getting things set so that they know exactly when they will see him.
Him curtailing their time with him is indeed going to be his loss - because the more he does it, the more hurt, disappointed and angry they will be with him and he will lose in the long run when they decide they can be bothered with him as little as he is bothered with them. :(

I have just read your two threads VB.

I an disgusted ith your ex's behaviour. He appears to be mentally unstable, manipulative and selfish.

All of which are despicable individually but the thing that really struck a cord with me is that he made your innocent, brave and (thanks to his appauling actions) confused babies LIE to you

I sincerely hope that you manage to sell the house quickly and can start to move on fully as soon as possible.

Good Luck

Had to dash from work to get supposedly ill dc3 from nursery- was the cheeriest he's been all week!

And talking of cheery, H has reverted to full-wattage, decent soon-to-be-ex and all round good dad. I find him charming when he's like that, so kids are totally dazzled (he's also been in contact with his parents saying he wants to see them/how happy he is now).

In some ways it would be easier Thumb if he did diminish contact and maybe he's thinking about it, he asked what was he going to do when the weather turned colder? He currently takes them to the park. I said do what other dad's do and take them to Mcdonalds or go bowling. Can't decide whether he's looking for an out and wants 'permission' from me to reduce the amount of midweek contact, or whether he's angling for something else...seeing the kids here in the house again? or maybe some other arrangement once ensconced with the OW (his 6m rental term will be up in December).

H casually revealed he would be nearish my place of work on Saturday, presumably after he's returned the kids early, which made me wonder if they were looking for some where to rent together or buy. He does this now - hint-hint at stuff - which I've no time for. The moving in together would also explain the charm offensive today.

(QBee & Lunatic, you must have had some time on your hands today! )

god he's pathetic, isn't he? trying to make you give him attention and emotion. . his neediness would be laughable if it wasn't so enraging.

Keep that rolled up newspaper handy!

Heh heh - good for you not "biting" at his bait - that will be frustrating for him! He'll end up telling you outright because you're not asking and he can't bear for you to be so indifferent - so when he does tell you, just look at him blankly and say "So?" That'll wrongfoot him :)

I think he's hoping you will relent and let him back in the house - which of course you won't, especially when you move (how is that going by the way?) - it's really up to him to think of ways round the situation, isn't it? That's what being an adult and a parent is all about, no? Something he needs to learn again, by the sound of it.

Thanks for asking, the house move isn't moving along. The market is very quiet here, the only properties selling, the EA says, are the cheapest on the market and anything priced as a giveaway which brings out the investors. The house is on at the lowest EA estimate so it's a balance between knowing what the market will pay and waiting til it picks up a little. In one way it's frustrating as it would be nice if an end to all the indecision were over and the children didn't have to get up quite so early but otoh the thought of dealing with a house move right now might tip me over the edge!

H was in full dazzle mode on Saturday so after he dropped them off early the dcs missed him keenly and cried. H rang this morning to ask a question he knew the answer to, made a big production of sounding tired (had been up 2 hours by then so not the best audience) and then turned up late to get dc1 to rugby. Said he hadn't had time to eat breakfast/was feeling rough/could he have some food, in front of the kids. Keeps saying that there is something he ought to remember to tell me and then doesn't. Can't work him out.