ValentineBombshell: well it went tits up but thank you

[ValentineBombshell]

Hello to anyone who remembers me from, as my name suggests, way back in February. Am a long time MN regular whose H confessed to kissing a colleague at work/an EA.

original thread here

Had to step away from MN for a bit as everything just imploded. Of course he hadn't just kissed her, it was all far more tawdry than that, she'd been giving him blowjobs in carparks.

And now my life reads like a badly scripted soap. Am about to proceed with divorce, distressingly he is still living in the same house as me and the children and he has reached heights (or should that be lows?) of jaw-dropping awfulness.

But I just wanted to come back and say thank you for the wise words that MNers took the time to post, for the support and the tough love, both of value in equal measure. And hopefully back on MN under my usual name xx

He has made the kids sad by leaving
He is making the kids sad by crying (and at 5 & 7 they are having to be 'supportive'
He is making the kids sad by saying things like "I am not allowed in, that's right isn't it?" in front of them

He wants to see the kids, I facilitate that - in fact encouraged it, Mr Once Every Fortnight
He wants to see me - I am not facilitating that, he left me, I don't want to see him.
I don't want his tears, his pleading to take him back, the baleful looks, the emotional blackmail, or the anger that pours off him in waves.

If anyone has the right to indulge in self-pity it's me, but I don't because actually, to my surprise, I am content and happy most of the time but also I am able to put the kids first (it's not too hard actually!) and here's a novel idea, maybe he ought to try it.

Er, I think I might have mentioned I'm premenstrual

and grrr

I haven't texted him that btw - tempted! - but I guess it's as you're saying GlaikitFizzog, he's trying to breach the wall.

He threw the dcs' belongings into the hall too infront of dc2 and snarled 'goodbye' so was v glad to close the door on him.

You are doing all you can OP so good on you. If there is one thing that really gets to people it is not like or dislike - it is indifference. And I think your H is finding this out.

someone said upthread 'this man is angry and he is not your friend' - if there was ever any doubt about him in that regard, his most recent behaviour should dispell it. keep a log of it all, and remember that he is your enemy. he has tried to turn the kids against you. I cant think of a clearer message that he doesnt want amicability, he wants his way, or to punish you for preventing it, no matter who he hurts. Utter bastard.

OOoo VB, he's showing his true colours now, isn't he!!

Very :( for your DC that they are caught in the middle of this and that he is blatantly using them to get at you.

Of course he's angry - he thought he could just waltz in and out of your life and that you'd put up with it - he's just had a very cold wake up shower! He will continue to make things unpleasant - lots of snidey comments. EVentually, when your DC are older, they will realise that he is in the wrong for doing that but at the moment they are too young to properly understand the guile involved (although the 7yo is nearly there) and to see that their Daddy is being mean to you.

Don't text him. You have no need to reply to such a self-serving wanky text; just like you have no need to be "supportive" to him. That last line of his is quite unbelievable - he things that despite him being so "awful" to you, you should still be friendly and supportive?? PISS OFF!! (that's to him, btw).

Remember - texts like that are designed to prolong communication by starting a conversation - something you are aiming to avoid. Stick to the "arrangements only" texts. He'll learn.

One other thing - however tempting it might be to be sarcastic back to him in front of the DC, don't do it. I'm sure you haven't but stick to that. And if the DC continue to ask why Daddy can't live there any more, try saying it was his choice to leave and he broke something very important, which means that he can't ever come back again because it can never be mended.

I am :( for you because it looks like your H is going to carry on his manipulative childish ways through your DC and that will make life difficult for you - but be strong, get the solicitor on everything ASAP and get it all sorted before he turns any nastier. Keep an eye on the finances too - after the DC, that's the next line of control he has over you and he obviously is low enough to use it, as he has used the DC.

VB -pmt or not - I think you've summed it up perfectly. I too get the anger coming off him in waves from my ex. But I don't get this at all - he wanted out, he got out, I should be bitter, angry and resentful, but I just feel contented. Perhaps this is what galls them? That we can actually live and be happy without them? I don't know.

Nothing else to say, Thumbwitch has said it all.

I do think that a man who uses kids as a weapon is scum though.

so very sorry you have been having such a rough time. Am I the only one concerned about thoughts of sleep overs in a house where you presumably do not know the others and what they are like?

Good luck with everything

Saffy (and VB) - of course they're angry - you've wounded their egos!
You obviously should both have fallen apart without them, the Man in Your Life, your Lord and Master, the Provider for your Home and Father of your Offspring. You should be snivelling puddles of misery, begging and pleading with them to return to you, because you can't live without them and their love/approval. You should be wailing that godawful Whitney Houstong refrain at them every time you see them "Aaaaannnnnd IIIIIIyiyiyiyi willl allways luuurrrrrvveeee yewwwwwwww" so that their egos are massaged. They are hurt, y'see, and bewildered - because they haven't yet realised that you are Real Strong Women, not pathetic little wifeys whose lives revolve around their man. Men don't like to feel hurt any more than they like guilt - so they transmute it into something they do understand - anger and aggression. They didn't want you to move on and do ok without them - it's like they don't matter or something.

HAH! Wake up blokes! This is REAL LIFE. Get over it and grow up. Be grateful that the strong beautiful women that you cast aside are so much more mature than you that they don't act like spoilt brats and are civilised over child contact etc. - there are plenty of women out there who aren't, but you, neither of you , are those women.

Dear VB, from the outset it seemed as if your H had thought he could still have family life and OW. I genuinely don't think he had considered that living at home and OW was mutually exclusive. It reflects how much he has taken you for granted...silly man. Now he was woken up to the reality and is angry. I have always felt that irrationally angry people fail to take responsibility for their own actions. They try to blame others for the situation and a result they can't move forward or they continue to make poor decisions.

I do think his behaviour needs to be commented on - maybe by email. The DCs are not his emotional support and and are perfectly entitled to define boundaries around your life and home. You are taking steps to finalise the housing so he will be able to move on and get his own home, it can't happen straight away so he needs to be grown-up about it. It is very odd how he seems to have erased his part in this??????

As others say - a divorce does not need to be emotional damaging to DCS, how their parents handle the separation is the critical path..maybe he needs reminding of that.

My ex did at an early stage in our separation have the same range of emotions but I remained consistent and he came out the other side, regretting what he had lost, but we were able to be parents together.

I don't often comment on this thread, although I read it, because I don't have any experience to offer. I do think though, as Smum99 has said, he needs to be pulled up on his behaviour, in a matter-of-fact and unemotional way. I guess the easiest way of achieving that is either letter or email rather than face to face or text which would allow him to react and be emotional about it. He simply can't continue to use your children like this - they've been through enough, courtesy of him. They don't deserve this.

What stuck out like a sore thumb for me in that horrible text of his was the revelation that he felt the children were a support for him and that he expects you to be supportive too.

VB, the man has completely lost the plot. And he is very angry with you for bursting the bubble he has been living in for the last little while (so do watch the money). If you can put an end to the visitation until he is assessed by a MH professional or therapist it would be a good thing. The children are being put through a wringer by their father here and he neither sees this nor cares. Please show that text to your solicitor and ask what can be done in the interests of the children to stop this visitation malarkey for the time being. Do not worry about antagonising him. The children need help.

They should absolutely not do any sleepovers with him. I agree that they should not be let sleep in a house full of strangers but it's also because he is not being a good father for them at this time (feeding being only a fraction of what they need from a parent right now). I do not doubt for one minute that he talks freely with them about your relationship, his present accommodation and the reasons for it (a highly edited version of it), his feelings -- I would bet any money that he badmouths you and does a massive poor me act for them. Hence the upset that you saw when they returned. I don't think it's because of indulgence or lack of routine. It's because their little shoulders have been used for their father to cry on.

VB, I think you should look into counseling for the children so they can be debriefed by a neutral third party and talk about their feelings in confidence. One of the effects of exposure to their father's mistreatment of them at this point is that they will feel a horrible conflict of loyalties and will shy away from talking to either you or him right now. I think you could say something to the effect that their father lives away from home now because that was his choice, and while you are sorry he feels the way he does about living away, the choice he made meant that he must now live apart from you. You could reassure the children that you love them very much as always, that they come first for you, that they are not to worry about you or their father because you and he are both grown ups and grown ups should take care of themselves, that they can talk with you any time about anything that is bothering them, or talk with a relative or a friend (it's maybe a good idea to ask a trusted teacher or some other friend if he or she would be willing to lend an ear to the children for the next little bit). If they ask whether you are still married you could say you are separated. Leave as little for their imaginations as possible.

Keep a log of all communication and exchanges at handover time, and don't shy away from your feelings of anger or try to explain them away by reference to pmt.

What math said.

Sorry, should say I delurked to post as was so shocked by the 'support' thing. And sorry to be v brief but waaay past my bedtime. You are amazing and an inspiration.

Only just caught up with this thread. Holy smoke - the sees the children being supporting to him as a 'positive' thing, a 'good' thing? He's got no idea about parenting has he, any normal parent would do everything they could to deal with a situation with enough self control and dignity to make sure little children weren't aware support was needed.

Hi VB. Sorry to hear that he has cranked up his fuckwitted behaviour to yet another level. I would definitely contact your solicitor again and tell them what he is doing to your dcs. My ex did this - I couldn't believe some of the things he told ds, it had a long term effect. As soon as I thought ds was old enough I told him the truth about what he'd been told but I realise you are a long way off being able to do that.

Like others I would also discount feeling 'premenstrual'. You are rightly fuming about the way he is treating your dcs. You don't seem to felt much anger on your own behalf but you are a fabulous Mum and your dcs do know that and will tell you one day! He is just playing on their vulnerability at the moment because he is utterly despicable. Stand tall, you are doing well.

Thanks for essentially confirming my feelings - he occupies such an unreality, that sometimes I doubt myself.

With some reservations, I did email to pull him up on his behaviour, saying that he needed to modify his behaviour, as who was he hurting? The dcs. That I had gone against good advice to send the children on the sleepover as it's what they/he wanted but I now was seriously questioning the wisdom of it. Told him there would have to be reassurances on his part etc which he gave. But then turned up to the next access visit in tears again in front of the children. [sigh]

I also said I deserved peace and respite from his barbed comments/emotional blackmail/wailing etc.

name change fail ?

H then texted to suggest that I too went on the caravan holiday with the older dcs, his parents & two dogs (sounds idyllic, no?) and he would look after younger dc3, but housemates wouldn't appreciate having a little baby around so he'd have to move into my house for the week.

Thanks AF!

Another one bites the dust

God job I post nothing of any use in the other names!

you daft sausage

wrt to the caravan holiday

no, no and thrice fucking no

H saw dc3 today - tears as usual begging to be let in.

He has been back to the GP, still on 40m citalopram. Asked him to be referred for a mental health assessment (thanks for the suggestions) and he said he'd been booked in for a "wellness" clinic next week, but he wasn't sure if this was a mental health assessment or was a resumption of some kind of counselling .

He did phone later to say that he was back to normal again, that these lows felt all consuming but then passed quickly. He is also back to work this week and is very worried about that.

I did feel sorry for him today, pitied him really. He is such a mess. Totally of his own making of course and have no desire to have him back/have the kids to protect from all his crap...but nevertheless it was very hard to see him like that today compared to the man he once was.

Ought to make clear, H was not let in.

But felt I needed to prod him in the direction of mental health assessment but having never been near the GP in years and now he's there every couple of weeks, hopefully they are now realising that just pills aren't going to crack it.

And as I was saying to an elderly ex neighbour who phones to "check on me" that unlike other people when things are tough he doesn't have family or friends to turn to either.

Erm, stop with the feeling bad for him, VB

Next time he sobs on the doorstep with your dc there, please will you shut the door so they can't hear and tell him very quietly and firmly to "grow the fuck up"

he can turn to OW...she must be fabulous since he gave up the rest of his support system for her