ValentineBombshell: well it went tits up but thank you

[ValentineBombshell]

Hello to anyone who remembers me from, as my name suggests, way back in February. Am a long time MN regular whose H confessed to kissing a colleague at work/an EA.

original thread here

Had to step away from MN for a bit as everything just imploded. Of course he hadn't just kissed her, it was all far more tawdry than that, she'd been giving him blowjobs in carparks.

And now my life reads like a badly scripted soap. Am about to proceed with divorce, distressingly he is still living in the same house as me and the children and he has reached heights (or should that be lows?) of jaw-dropping awfulness.

But I just wanted to come back and say thank you for the wise words that MNers took the time to post, for the support and the tough love, both of value in equal measure. And hopefully back on MN under my usual name xx

VB, you are coming on so well

Another mini "breakdown" I see

diddums

Tell him to seek counselling with his GP. It isn't your responsibility to listen to his pathetic whining.

I think it may soon get to the point where you have to take out an injunction keeping him away from the house, except specifically for DC pick-ups.

Or see them from a contact centre/other 3rd party.

He is at best incapable of not behaving like a nob and upsetting the children. At worst (the correct scenario, IMO) he is attempting to control your responses by manipulating his own children

This has to stop, right now, or your visions of an amicable co-parenting set-up is going to disappear up the Swanee. His fault entirely.

You are on the cusp of some very difficult decisions here. Your children will be being adversely affected by his behaviour.

I think that any solicitor/welfare officer would be very reluctant to agree to visits overnight when are no proper beds for the children.
I am so pleased you behaved the way you did. He is absolutely using the dcs to (try) to manipulate you. His behaviour feels pre-meditated to me. He is point scoring and playing games. He is not thinking of your dcs best interests at all.

Up until today, although not wild about the idea and thought it was impractical, I had no major problem with the sleepover - without my presence, he would just be 'Dad' with them.

Can the sleeppver go ahead? I am now more concerned about the dcs - can he be trusted with them? Really don't know whether there is anything to be concerned about or not. Obviously I hope not. He's since apologised for today.... but with the anticipation of talking when the dcs are not here as a barrier.

Was usefully reminded (by AF?) that I don't have to do anything he wants in that regard and I certainly do not want to see him.

Have looked online at contact centres < thanks for the tip > and there are none nearby and think you have to be referred, although there is one in the town we will eventually be moving to.

My only thought is to phone the solicitor tomorrow morning and see what she suggests.

I agree with AF here

'He is at best incapable of not behaving like a nob and upsetting the children. At worst (the correct scenario, IMO) he is attempting to control your responses by manipulating his own children'

While he may well be able to feed them and keep them in out of the rain overnight, it is the emotional care that matters and he has once again shown that he cannot manage this, behave like an adult, and make them feel safe and secure. Part of the running to him that they do is desperation to check on him, I am convinced. I would hazard a guess that your DCs are very worried about their dad and this is the opposite of the way things should be.

I think there should be no sleepovers until he has committed to therapy and demonstrated excellent 'children's best interests first' behaviour (so no manipulative breakdowns in front of the children, no showing up unannounced at the house, no more gestures like giving a child the photo of you he used to keep in his wallet.) He is far too self absorbed to be trusted with the all-important emotional end of caring for the children at this point of their lives.

Maybe the two of you could book yourselves into Relate or some other couples counselling to discuss parental and relationship etiquette from now on? He clearly needs training and a mindset makeover so that he will no longer see the children as handy bins in which to dump whatever garbage comes to hand for him and start behaving as if he fully realised that his words, actions and demeanour will have an effect on the children and that his emotions and whims need to come second.

That's really sound advice MA, thank you.

Although I am reluctant to do any kind of counselling with H, I can see the need to discuss the best way forward for the children so that he is on board. I have the benefit of MN advice; H has 4 walls to bounce ideas off (and possibly OW) which probably isn't entirely healthy.

Personally, I wouldn't enter into any joint counselling with him, for whatever reason

He will use it as space for soundbites, for his platform, as a time for him to grandstand his own agenda

Keep your own counsel, VB

math has said pretty much what I was going to re. the children - your DC are likely to be emotionally bombarded while they stay over with him, because he will be trying to use them to get to you, so they come back and say things like "Mummy, why won't you let Daddy come back, we miss him so much and he really wants to" - thus making you the Bad Guy.

He still really needs to grow the fuck up - he's being pathetic! And seek some personal counselling to learn how to behave like a responsible adult, perhaps. I agree with AF (and you) that joint counselling is unlikely to be beneficial - but it might help to have a mediator for discussing the best way forward re. the DC. Your solicitor can perform that function though.

And Very Well Done with your excellent handling of the situation - you're detaching well! :)

Oh love what a total tosser he is. I think now you're at the stage where you have to tell the DC that Daddy is not very well in his mind and therefore says and does silly things, and that while he loves them (as much as a self-obsessed arsehole is capable of doing - obviously you don't tell them that bit) when he is not well and being stupid, it's better that he doesn't come in or see them.
Don't bother with joint counselling. Any counsellor who would see you together for more than a single appointment would be incompetent: couple-counselling doesn't work when one partner is a manifest arsehole and a competent counsellor will detect this and refuse to treat you as a couple.
From now on you have to regard whatever H wants, says and does as irrelevant. He has forfeited the right to have his wishes and whims taken into consideration by his behaviour. Work out, with independent advice, a contact plan for DC that doesn't involve you any more than necessary, and if he acts up, block and stonewall him and tell him to go back to his solicitor, he is not going to get his own way just by crying and shitting himself on the doorstep.

VB, your husband is a fuckwit who can no longer be trusted to do right by his children

You need to process that fact, and act accordingly

You need urgent legal advice on all of this, before you agree to sleepovers or anything.

You are doing incredibly well VB, getting stronger by the day.

If they were my kids - no, I wouldn't consider sleepovers for a while. He's still adjusting to meds, but what would worry me more is that he sounds unstable, and I think you'd worry yourself silly whilst the kids were with him. And that isn't good for you, and a mum's intuition is always right.

Spoke to my solicitor who advised maintain the day-time contact for longer, before moving to overnights where he has to provide suitable accommodation. However, I think he's finding doing the out and about/keeping them entertained in parks for 4 hours quite hard work, and he would find it easier to be chilled with them, relaxing at his place, TV to watch/ Wii to play, food, kitchen and bathroom all at hand.

If he harasses me I can call the police, although he has not been violent or made threats - but at least to get it logged. I have kept all texts.

The other issue is that - god help me - he could move back in as he has equal rights to the house.

And if he's having access to the kids then there is no reason for him to come here/live here.

Solicitor did also mention the possibility of mediation if we're having difficulty coming to an arrangement re access, but as far as I am concerned we're not, he can see the children, they want to see him and he's not asking for more contact.

My plan, I think(!), is to keep on the same steady course, as it's the one that I want to happen.

You are perfectly steady, VB

Am not too sure about him

You are doing well. Your solicitor has given you sound advice. If he is having problems keeping his dcs entertained that really is his issue to sort out. Whenit gets colder he can't keep them in the park for 4 hours! Does he know them that well if he's struggling now?
His emotional instability is a concern, also that you don't know whether he is still in contact with OW...he is keeping this a secret from you, I wonder why

On reflection 'Relate or couples counselling' wasn't the thing to say the idea of divorce mediation with a view to establishing what is expected, behaviour-wise with you and especially wrt the children, might be better as this would be more of a legal than a relationship environment. But better still would be counseling (and possibly MH treatment) for him alone I agree that he is definitely showing signs of instability, but while I can see that taking care of children for four hours at a stretch outdoors might be a challenge, the alternative is not necessarily having them overnight in one bedroom in a house shared by other people (and btw do you know much about the background of those people, VB?). I really don't see how he is being a good father to the DCs right now. Yes he misses them and wants to maintain a link to them, but he is not demonstrating that he can behave appropriately and put them first when he is around them. He is upsetting them and probably scaring them and doesn't seem to have a clue.

VB I have been lurking on this thread and wanted to say how much I admire what you've done and are doing, and echo the posters who have pointed out that he is not putting the DCs welfare first. You are, and you are doing that by placing boundaries around their exposure to a selfish, manipulative toddlerman.

Brava, lady. You're amazing.

That's really kind of you Blackcurrants for taking the time to post. And you are sadly correct about H not putting the dcs first. The older dcs have come back after spending a few days with H and it seems they had a grand time. So in one sense it paves the way for them potentially doing one night a week at his house. Ds took his bed roll and sleeping bag, H can cook so they were fed well and they went to a theme park and the park.

But wise MNers are right about H being angry at me, which is just mad, because if anyone has a right to be raging it should be me.

Had a phone call this morning to ask if it was raining (yes) and a 'Well what can I do with dc3 then? I could come and see him in a nice warm house but no that's not allowed is it?" (No)....and more in the same vein, so I cut across him and said he could either take dc3 out or not, his choice, ring me to let me know when he decided, and put the phone down (am evilly premenstrual today!)

He rang back to say he would take dc2 and dc3 swimming and drop off dc1.

After swimming as soon as she got to the door, dc2 asked, "Why can't Daddy come in?" and H said, "I'm not allowed in, isn't that right?"

I told dc2 that daddy had his own house to go to and she would see him on Saturday. H gave me a filthy look.

And tonight lots and lots of questions from dc2 about why can't daddy come here? why doesn't he live here? I want him to come back. Don't you want him to live here? Are you and Daddy married?

I know it's only natural after seeing his place, the dcs might have questions, but given what H said today in front of them that he has said it is my fault he no longer lives here.

Part of me want to give H a complete rocket if this is the case (certainly for what he said when dropping off dc3) but the other part of me thinks ignore, rise above and detach, detach.

And I can feel the dcs' confusion, and even frustration, that my answers are not sufficient (I haven't of course mentioned an OW)

Not sharp enough to offer meaninful advice OP except to say your H is just an utter, utter cunt by - effectively - using your kids here as a form of emotional blackmail. ie - deliberately making things awkward at handing back time to make you feel bad. What a complete fucking wanker. How can anybody be so self centred?
Dead right to detach, this knobcheese is digging a deeper and deeper and hole for himself by the looks of things.

dyswsd, cos I'm prementrual today I find I agree with every word you just said!

Just knew he would have some comment to make, this is H's text tonight:

Me and the kids had a wonderful time in the last 3 days. They were fantastic in every respect, fun, well behaved, loving and supportive and they made me very proud. The children also served as a terrible reminder of the awful decision I made leaving you all. Dc2 and I got v upset when she asked me if I could sleep over at her house. I think given our recent previous friendliness between each other that mu current treatment is unnecessary and unsupportive, although understandable given how awful I have been.

Interestingly the children weren't very well behaved at home, almost as soon as H left in fact - they were really niggly with each other, so got them fed and ready for bed early. They used to be like this when visiting the grandparents, so indulged and out of routine, it used to take them a few days to settle down.

So what is this cockface saying? "Dc2 and I got very upset". Erm, so remind us cockface, how did this scenario come about? Why did he need to tell you that they were upset - apart from to try make you feel guilty about a situation he created. What a total...fuckwad.

VB, I've been lurking for a long time here, but never felt it right to post as there are others on MN much better placed to offer advice.

I hope I am never in the position you are, but if I ever do find myself there adn I manage to have half the courage you do I'll be doing well.

It is so sad he has started to use the childred to get to you, trying to break the wall you have built up to stop him influencing you. That is low, but it also shows he's getting desprate. He thought he held all the cards, but you a proving to be a tougher cookie.