ValentineBombshell: well it went tits up but thank you

[ValentineBombshell]

Hello to anyone who remembers me from, as my name suggests, way back in February. Am a long time MN regular whose H confessed to kissing a colleague at work/an EA.

original thread here

Had to step away from MN for a bit as everything just imploded. Of course he hadn't just kissed her, it was all far more tawdry than that, she'd been giving him blowjobs in carparks.

And now my life reads like a badly scripted soap. Am about to proceed with divorce, distressingly he is still living in the same house as me and the children and he has reached heights (or should that be lows?) of jaw-dropping awfulness.

But I just wanted to come back and say thank you for the wise words that MNers took the time to post, for the support and the tough love, both of value in equal measure. And hopefully back on MN under my usual name xx

You are a fantastic friend, I would have given anything for a friend like you 16+ years ago.

You can tell your other friend that you ARE thinking of the dcs. Making sure that they don't see their Dad taking advantage of you and swanning in and out as he feels. You can also point out (from me) that YOU weren't the one who screwed up your marriage. You have put your dcs first through the last few months in a way many people don't and she should realise that

Thanks, must admit was a bit shaken by my friend and their opinion.

Spoke too soon about H
Just rung to say, he wants to sort out overnights at his place
It's still his day, so tonight.
And when are they going on holiday with his parents as he's running out of time.

Said not tonight, too short notice
They haven't even visited the place yet
Put the proposals into an email and I'll look at them later.
Bye

Ok this is his text:

I would like to visit the kids from 12 on Tuesday 16th and then during the afternoon go back to mine and sleep over with the intention of visiting a theme park on Wednesday and returning to collect dc3 on Thursday for a few hours before a tea-time drop-off. I think the kids will be well up for a sleep over at Daddy's house, their opinions sought, or they could simply visit for the day altogether on Tues 16th and then the sleep over shifts to the three day period Thurs 18th - Sat 20th maintaining the two days of contact with dc3 at either end. This is also keeping to the normal routine but with an additional day in the middle. If either child wanted to go home they could at any point.

My own feeling is that Tues and Thurs ought to be day visits to Daddy's new place and he can fit in a theme park if he wants.

They are then on holiday for a week with the grandparents

In the week of their return they ought to trial out a sleepover given there is one double bed!

Although my IL's are of the opinion, no proper beds for the kids, no sleepover.

Any advice welcomed.

Can't get a gauge on what is reasonable.

And in term time, what is reasonable to expect?

I'd go with your ILs. I don't think they should sleep over anywhere until they've been there a few times and got used to the place.
In term time you need to balance this with their school work etc. My ds used to stay with his dad on a Sunday night but that wouldn't work for everyone. How do your dcs feel about sleep overs with him?
Go with how you feel on this and well done for telling him tonight was too short notice, especially as he felt so ill he had to drop them off earlier...

or maybe should just text : go for it

am sure his meds will be sorted by then

am sure his housemates would welcome 2 kids

I think he's just trying to provoke you and keep you engaged in dialogue. He can't let it lie because you are so much stronger than he is.

He's dicking you about. If you say 'Yes' to the sleepover he will suddenly develop explosive diarrhoea and have to cancel, or he will ring up wailing in the middle of the night that it 'upsets' him having the DC there... whatever arrangements he asks for, as soon as you agree he will change them because the point is not to see the DC more, it's to cause maximum confusion and inconvenience.

Hi VB, just wanted to reply to your earlier comment about the DCs. I told my counsellor that the children were one of my reasons for staying, and she very emphatically pointed out that it's not separation that causes children problems, but how the adults act towards each other afterwards. I'm not sure I 100% agree, I think of course there will be some fall out, but that is due to the disgustingly selfish actions of your STBEx, not you. I don't think you could fix that for them by staying with him, that would be awful. You can only grit your teeth and try to remain on good terms with him.

No to any sleepovers until you have an agreement the courts have signed off on or an agreement worked out between the two of you and solicitors.

A detailed agreement, as detailed as you can arrive at. One that covers the most minute details of visitation with the children, for the sake of your sanity and theirs.

You need to have a very thorough agreement here or you will be dealing with this kind of getting in your hair nonsense every time he has a whim, or an attack of sentimentality, or needs his meds adjusted, VB.

And he will need one bed for each child as well as one for himself and a cot for the baby. Preferably separate rooms for him and the children.

How does a man who can't think ahead enough to have lunch arranged for children after a morning of swimming propose to take care of them in a room in a shared house (with presumably shared bathrooms) overnight and at a theme park the next day? This is madness. Say NO. The most you should assent to is him taking them for a couple of days to his parents' if that is ok with the parents.

Does he really think this sort of sea change for the children would be feasible or in anyone's best interests, or that you would just come up with an instant answer to such a cart before the horse request, popped out of the blue? He is living in a completely unreal bubble all of his own.

VB - all this lower contact is a massive learning curve for you and not to be underestimated. I think you are making positive, big steps - so well done.

As an MH nurse, I know that it can take an adjustment to dosage at least a week to take effect - often two weeks to get used to. It can make people feel unwell, so give him the benefit of the doubt on this. Also, it's not unusual for people to feel worse before they feel better.

I wouldn't allow any sleepovers at present. Let kids get used to new surroundings slowly and in their own time. He must understand that they come first, so the more at ease they are, the better longer term stays will suit them (and him). He also needs to stabilise on the new meds. There are no "rules" here - it can all take as long as it takes.

You are a wonderful, supportive friend. Keep strong. You are doing really well, even if sometimes you feel you can't see the wood for the trees!
X

It's really hard to know what approach to take. Part of me just thinks, just say 'go for it' & let him have the two dc and then the 3 dc on his own. It will either go well and set the precedent for future overnights, either every Fri or Sat as we are probably working towards (he is usually very capable), or it will go badly/he will have got no emotional response from me and postpone future overnights for a while.

I don't instinctively say no just because he's the one who's proposed it.

Or go the more formal and legal route and have every i and t crossed and documented re visitation (not sure what every i and t entails yet!) - which would change when we moved (had a 2nd but still low offer from the same people on the house today) & which he would see possibly as a further aggressive move on my part. Or I can try persuade him it's needed to have complete transparency, although he would baulk at incurring any further legal costs.

I do still think it is less than ideal for the children not to have their own beds - again I can't see that going well. He has his own en-suite though, so no sharing of bathrooms.

VB - just tell me where H lives now and I will gladly go round and give the silly daft fucker a slap.

will get you a ladder, he's quite tall

or aim lower

He sounds like such a knobber, VB and you clearly deserve better. Your posts, despite all you have gone through, are full of grace and good humour. I sincerely wish you all the best. (Drunk lol).

Have one for me. Am a terrible drunk...as in a rubbish one. The 3 day hangovers just aren't worth the fleeting pleasure. Think I must have Japanese genes! And thanks for the lovely comments

Am going to sleep on it and decide tomorrow.

Don't worry about appearing 'aggressive' in his eyes. After all, you don't know if that's how he is seeing all of this.

And his perceptions are a bit skewed anyhow -- if he is surprised that he can no longer make himself a sandwich and use the toilet in the house he used as a bedroom and laundry service area while focusing his attention and affections elsewhere for so long, then his interpretation of whatever course of action you are now adopting is likely to be a bit off.

If he is angry with you for being so firm, that is because he possibly thought you would just roll over and play dead, allowing him and the OW to move in together and play mummies and daddies in your home.

I would say absolutely no way until his meds have settled down anyway.
And then no way until he has somewhere appropriate for them to sleep.
And then no way until they have seen the place.
And then only one night to start with.

That should be straight enough.

I am going to say blandly 'Go for it. Let me know what time you want to collect and drop off dc3 on Tues.' (as he is not seeing dc3 here, just in case in that text of his he thought he would)

I have spoken to the older dcs and they are quite keen to go to his and sleep over (although play date today and hols with grandparents far more exciting!)

I have no desire to deny H access, if he can cope on his own - good - and it paves the way to a weekend overnight in term time, with some very clear guidelines. H is the camping/hiking sort, so bunking down might not phase him or the kids at all. He is their parent, if the shoe were on the other foot, even on meds, I would still want to be a mother to my children, and assume he still wants to be a father to his. If he has any other motivations ("dicking me about" (great phrase)) then he isn't getting the satisfaction of any angsty response or my company.

Will send them with clothes and water bottles (no food!) and see how it goes.

Factors such as his health, the children's opinions (they are quite articulate!), his housemates'/landlord's opinions are all things he hasn't given enough weight to imo. I have shared a king sized bed with thrashy/kicky dc2 and it isn't an enjoyable experience! Three in a double/tired children the next day...

My only reservation is the OW but don't think she is around, if she is (the dcs would say) then that changes matters considerably as he will have violated the statement of arrangements & I will implode matters. But honestly don't think he is that foolish/brave/stupid.

Well, let's go for the 'dicking around' theory shall we?

Had phone call from H which I couldn't hear due to poor mb reception but was in process of texting him sleepover arrangements anyway.
Less than 10 minutes later H turned up unannounced at the front door, crying and snotty (he lives 20-25 mins away so must have already been on his way)
Kids get to door first to open it

I barred the way and asked him what he wanted.
To talk to you - wailed
Told him I didn't want to talk to him but dcs went from excitement to distress in seconds. Again he said it's his house. I said legally no right of access, go away.
Shut the door and cheerfully said to dcs Daddy will see you on Tues as the plan
Weeping and wailing from dcs, scrambling to get to H, plus H ringing the doorbell repeatedly.
Went outside, closed the door on dcs and had firm words with H
He kept saying he wanted to come back to me/wanted to talk/just listen to him
Told him I had no respect for him, didn't trust him, didn't love him, it was over, accept it. He was not to turn up unannounced at the house. Anything he wanted to say in future he was to put in an email.
Then went back into the house, ignoring him, shut and locked the door and took the dcs to the back of the house. H looked in at the window for a bit and then left.
Dcs still distressed and wanting to see/talk to daddy
Texted H to say when he was able dc1 wanted to talk to him
H then had a normal conversation with dc1 about Mario Kart on the telephone.

Have since had a text apologising. But saying he wants to talk with me next week when the dcs are on holiday.

Am about to send him an email, making my position totally clear (and also importantly getting it in writing).

Am going to talk to my solicitor on Monday.

Or just the solicitor do the talking.

Woohoo, go VB!!! Excellent 10/10 handling!

What a soggy biscuit he is, and with what pride you will be able to look back at your life when you are old to see that ditching him was a fab move!

Keep it up x

I have been in a similar situation (the bombshell part & initial aftermath) and I have been lurking and following your situation with increasing at your H and admiration for you. I can't imagine what strength it must have taken to do what you just did.

Hats off, you are doing amazingly well.

I have been watching your thread this week, and didn't write sooner as i haven't any helpful comments to make that hadn't already been said, but I just wanted to let you know that you coped brilliantly today with your

I am sorry that he has put his own feelings AGAIN in front of his childrens by turning up at your house in that state. What did he expect to happen?..that you would open the door and see him snivelling and open your arms out to him and forgve him for what he has done?

You really have been so strong, and you are doing a fantastic job of securing proper access for your children in a sensible way...it is just a pity your ex is only thinking about himself!

I hope the solicitor can be of constructive help tomorrow.