ValentineBombshell: well it went tits up but thank you

[ValentineBombshell]

Hello to anyone who remembers me from, as my name suggests, way back in February. Am a long time MN regular whose H confessed to kissing a colleague at work/an EA.

original thread here

Had to step away from MN for a bit as everything just imploded. Of course he hadn't just kissed her, it was all far more tawdry than that, she'd been giving him blowjobs in carparks.

And now my life reads like a badly scripted soap. Am about to proceed with divorce, distressingly he is still living in the same house as me and the children and he has reached heights (or should that be lows?) of jaw-dropping awfulness.

But I just wanted to come back and say thank you for the wise words that MNers took the time to post, for the support and the tough love, both of value in equal measure. And hopefully back on MN under my usual name xx

VB - I think they might be chancers as well, but you never know!
Your H is still trying to have conversations - he doesn't need to ask about how the house viewing went, he will find out eventually when it goes well because it will sell. Unless you need his help with childcare for a viewing, I wouldn't bother telling him about them every time - it's just chat.

And yes, if you feel that he is regrouping, chances are you are right. Be on your guard! here's a hint - if he starts the wailing again, ask him what the hell he's doing - he's supposed to be a man, not a toddler. That should shut him up quick.

Hi Thumbwitch :) nope, no new troubles anyway, just plodding along. So tempted to start my own thread again, it was literally MN that seemed to get me through at times when everything happened. Dipping my toes in the water at the moment Hope you're ok.

(sorry x)

Thanks for the PM seachange, have responded!

If you do start up your thread again, give me a nudge

Yes H is racking it up.

Caught me off guard this morning when rushing youngest out to nursery, had a phone call about buying cupboard child-locks (need a special type that fits) and I said 'fine, whatever, got to go' before realising damn, it's an excuse to have contact/will offer to see if they fit

So will have to have the money ready to give him on the doorstep. And now have phrase ready for next time he offers to buy anything. Just kicking myself and wishing I got it right the first go!

Then had another call from him asking if he could take the children swimming (not his day) as he didn't see much of them yesterday (his choice to bring them back early).

So I said no, we have plans. They will see you tomorrow for swimming.

But I know he will want to see them for longer than just swimming, and also to see dc3. So do I just establish with him at pickup, if he intends on taking them all out after swimming? (kids usually ravenous at that time)

He will again, no doubt, challenge me on him being allowed in the house, especially about what I said about seeing them in a place of familiarity. Statement of arrangements for the children does say this - that he will initially see them in the family home. But this was before he was wanting to come back and rekindle things with me.

Do I have to go back to my solicitor on this? Or can I just decide that the time for seeing them in the family home has passed and it's time they got used to seeing him outside the home?

I would definitely tell your Solicitor about his change of heart if I were in your shoes, if only to get their perspective on it as a 3rd party. -The original arrangements were made when he looked like he wanted to be off for good, now he's banging on about you being a challenge etc(ffs), my view is that the agreement should change.

But regardless of what your Sol says, I don't see why YOU shouldn't set the agenda. It's all part of standing firm against his onslaught isn't it? Do you think the children would be ok seeing him outside the family home? If you are worried though, do bounce it all off the lawyer, that's what they're there for.

Actually ignore that. H just texted:

SaturdayI don;t know if I can have the children a bit longer after swimming and a bite to eat - 2 or 3 o'clock

Me:
Yes that would be fine. Text me on the way back from swimming to collect dc3 (will pack him food/milk/change of clothes) and the kids' drinks bottles

H
I'm so pleased. Sorry to mess you about. Of course I will text you. You don't want a French stick though?

Me:
No I don't need anything. Have a great day with the kids

H
So you don't want me eating a sandwich in my house before I take the kids out?"

Notice the 'MY house'!

Haven't responded. Not sure how to, apart from maybe just "No"

What exactly does the statement of arrangements say about his visitation with the children? -- because there are so many questions about what day, for how long, whether he will be responsible for feeding them, where precisely they are to be picked up or dropped off (inside the house or on the doorstep), when each visit is to begin and end.

You need a document with every I dotted and every T crossed wrt visitation.

Go back to your solicitor and get some sort of agreement prepared that will go through each aspect of the visitation arrangement step by step, with no stone left unturned.

Basically, you want him to pick them up at the doorstep, you want this to happen on the same day and at the same time each week, and you want them dropped back to the doorstep at the agreed time, no earlier and no later, each week. And you want a (defined) meal fed to them all if he is to have them over a mealtime, with him responsible for providing the food.

Next time he has a brilliant idea about fixing up something in the house (say no to the childlocks btw; you don't need them since the house is on the market) or anything that involves more contact, say "I'll think about that and get back to you tomorrow at 7". Then text at 7 "Thank you but my answer is No". Then silence...

"MY house"-getting a bit sullen are we, now that you're rattling him by being so firm. Too bad.

VB -- the pushback has got under way in earnest. Please get a cast iron agreement about visitation with all times stated in the agreement. Otherwise he will keep on pushing, requesting, asking for more time or less time and generally getting under your skin. Also, do not pack lunch for the children. He needs to occupy himself in figuring out the logistics of feeding them instead of having time on his hands to brood on the injustice of it all (a man can't have a sandwich in his own house ), dream up ways of annoying you and jerking you around.

This man is angry with you and he is not your friend. You do not have to play nice with him.

Just spoken to the legal assistant who will put together a letter if needed to H.

Will speak to the solicitor on Monday when back in the office about the statement for arrangements for children, they are not precise enough. I thought they were sufficient, but realise from everything you've suggested MA (thank you) that they are not. Petition has already gone to court though, so not sure what happens as a result if I want to change them.

Will respond to H later this evening with a simple 'No'

I don't know if I need to state anything more than that.

^H
So you don't want me eating a sandwich in my house before I take the kids out?"^

Don't rise to the passive-aggression. Just make it clear he gave up the right to a cosy sandwich in the family home when he dumped his family. He doesn't come over the threshold.

Yes, "no" will be sufficient and then make sure you enforce it and watch out for these distractions you keep coming a cropper with.

Have everything ready and your mind clear.

His mind is perfectly clear, that is how he is pulling your strings.

If he becomes increasingly awkward about your arrangements re:him seeing the children I would suggest that it actually adds to their confusion if he makes himself at home at YOUR house during contact. They are getting used to the fact he is not there all the time and he takes them out instead, so I doubt they are benefiting now seeing him getting cosy at yours. He has somewhere to live and can have his bloody sandwich there!

An addendum can be added to whatever document has already gone to the court, as long as proper notice is served to him that this has been done and a courtesy copy sent afaik. That way he has the chance to argue about it if he wants. (My own visitation agreement runs to about 20 pages double spaced, and covers every hour of every day in the year, yet exH has still found room to dispute and argue.)

As Lazarusb says, it is in the children's best interest to have consistency and to get used to the new arrangements, and not necessarily having visitation in their familiar environment which may actually confuse them and upset them, as dad leaves home once more each time a visit is over.

Do not let him into your house, and certainly not when you're not there, especially if he is interested in you still, because there's a possibility that he will snoop, go through your things, try and find out stuff about your life and what you are thinking. That's what my H did

Am going to see if I need to revise contact arrangements legally - thanks MA for the advice on this - yours must be some document to run to 20 sides!

It's a completely different mindset for me, so might not get it right straight away. I am by nature not combative, don't hold grudges, or have the ready reply - this is in fact H but up until recently he's never directed it at me. I'm more likely to reason, rationalise, empathise & analyse to achieve what I want

Hate the stress of it/him & being out of my comfort zone. Thought him leaving to pastures new would be the end of it. I do have 'options' that I will give thought to, some more above board than others, but they all involve upping the ante.

Basically you cannot trust this man do behave in any reasonable way. Remember that his agenda is not 'what's good for the DC' it's 'How can I make myself the centre of attention and force VB to indulge my whims?'
WRT your legally-binding agreement you need a clause that states 'due to his behaviour H is no longer allowed in the house though this does not affect his financial claim on it.'
Given that he's creeping you out, upsetting the DC and generally making an arse of himself with every visit, it shouldn't be that difficult to put in place while you wait for the house to be sold - and as soon as you have a new home for you and DC you don't need any kind of additional legal procedures to keep him out of the house, you can just refuse to let him in and, if necessary, call the police to remove him.

I know where I'd tell him to stick his french stick

....where the sun don't shine

VB - argh!
Yes, you have to get your mindset sorted so that whenever you see his number you have your answers already limited to yes, no, don't know, none of your business and good bye.

A simple no would suffice in response to the latest text but tbh, I wouldn't bother. It will only prolong the "conversation" because there will be an opening there for him to ask "why not?" and carry on.

Good luck with the solicitor's letter - hope it clarifies things.

Am ok. He didn't bring a french stick thankfully!

He was a bit petulant 'am not allowed in, that's right isn't it?" sort of thing
Me, calm 'That's right'.

Dc3 scrambled to the door as fast as crawling would allow to get to H, so really hope am doing the right thing

However, H took the older kids swimming, he willingly signed another form from the bank who have clearly lost the first ones he signed to remove him from the account, he has now taken them all out again (dc1 protesting) for a picnic lunch (which I have provided (I can see those eyes rolling!) - dcs are ravenous after swimming, want this new arrangement to work). H has upped his meds and doesn't feel well so has said he will probably drop them back earlier than planned. I said this was no problem. I have also raised the prospect of them visiting his place in the future - not ideal but for H to work out.

The person who rang from the bank is a friend of mine, she clearly felt a bit awkward but knows H has left. She's coming around later to cry on my shoulder as she's not being allowed to see her young kids & her solicitor is useless, she is so lovely and I thought she was happy with her DP. Not sure I will be able to advise but know a couple of good solicitors and will direct her to the wisdom of Mumsnet!

Monday will ring solicitor to see if anything requires revision

Bloody hell, VB - your friend is not being allowed to see her own young DC?? How is that happening? Poor woman! :(

Yes- my eyes are rolling! Stern look in your direction VB!
Stop doing this man favours. If your dcs are ravenous after swimming he can sort them out.
You are doing the right thing. You have bent over backwards to accommodate him and do the right thing for your children. He has used this to his advantage again and again and abused the leeway you have given him. Remember - he took the decision to cheat on you and his children. So he may not be happy now - if it's gone 'tits up' he's the one suffering now.

Stand up for yourself OP!!!!

Am getting there! Doesn't help that someone who I counted on as one of my closest friends, who I helped massively through their divorce and custody battle, is now questioning my stance with a 'think of the children' plea and just because they are a lone voice doesn't mean they're wrong (oh yes it does). Have made my position clear and will be stepping back.

H dropped the kids off much earlier, despite asking for more time with them, as was feeling poorly due to the meds. Conversation civilised and short.

Lovely friend who popped round today, turns out has a violent partner who has behaved just appallingly. She's already in contact with Women's Aid, given her the name of two solicitors including mine, offered to drive her to see mine if she needs me to, and hopefully she's knows my home is aways open to her and the children.

Was saying on the surface would never have guessed either of us had so much turmoil in our lives.