He tried to have sex with me while I was asleep

[maristella]

And I'm very fucking angry about it.

The more I tried to stop him, the more he interpreted my movement as a green light. I kept saying let me sleep, I rolled away until I ha nowhere left to go, I kept taking his hands and cock away from me. The only way I was able to make him stop was to get out of bed. He looked so utterly wounded and rejected

It was a new relationship, I really liked him, and this was the first time we spent the night together, and the last.

I fucking hate him, I have rejected all his calls since and he is still ringing and texting. I know I should have spelled it out to him, but I knew I would have been bombarded. He sent me loads of emails saying he wanted to spend the weekend with me and DS; he's never met my DS! I don;t ever want him to meet DS, ever! I emailed back (the only contact I've made to him since I stayed over) and said I really don;t want a relationship. But he is still fucking trying!

I could actually go to the police, which might mean that mutual friends and family are dragged into this, I might be vilified for this. I don;t want or deserve that. I could carry on dodging him. I might flip and call him a pervert and threaten to tell my family and our friends.

I just needed to let that out....

I completely agree Dooin!

Nancy - I absolutely disagree with you. The starting point is always that a woman has not consented to sex until she has explicitly done so. I was in an abusive relationship for far longer than I care to admit. I am a very heavy sleeper. Twice, I woke up to find my then P having sex with raping me. I can categorically tell you that the thoughts that went through my mind were not "oh, he has decided to make love to me but I don't want to, so I had better tell him that I have changed my mind and am withdrawing my consent"; it was "Ouch! what the hell is happening?!? What the hell does he think he is doing to me!?! I don't want this!! How long has he being doing this to me?!? Get OFF!!!". You are lucky not to have experienced that sense of violation.

Thistle I also woke up to an ex having sex with me, I am an extremely heavy sleeper and was on sleeping pills at the time and the only reason I woke up was because the bed fucking broke!

I also woke up to this twice.

The OP needs support, not to be told that she initiated it by lying in the same bed.

Thistle I feel for you.

Of course a woman has the right to say when and where she is penetrated - am I making my point really badly or are people deliberately misunderstanding me because I have explicitly stated this along with no always means no several times now.

What I will not accept is that as a matter of course a lover should have to seek explicit consent prior to carrying out every sexual act. I accept this point has little to do with the details of the OP which was (as I have already said clearly an attempted rape) but this thread went off at something of a tangent 250 odd posts ago.

So yes there are different starting points: my DH has consent to touch me until I ask him not to. A stranger does not and should explicitly seek it. If such a stance means I am lining up against victims and decent men then I dispair and I am stunned that I am so clearly in the minority in this view.

Don't worry, Nancy, you're not in the minority in this view.

That's why most rape victims don't bother to report their ordeals and of those who do, only 6% of them will get justice. And it's why 1 in 4 women are subjected to rape or sexual assault in their lifetime - because rapists know they'll get away with it. Because your views are in the majority.

Thanks Strawberry. Same to you too. It is only recently that I have been able to admit to myself that it was rape. I only wish that I had had the support of MN at the time - my boundaries were so misplaced that I was always having to swallow and deny my own feelings about what happened. This is why it is so great that so many people have supported the OP on this thread. Despite the people anxious to sweep such behaviour under the carpet, there may be many more women lurking who will realise that they do not have to put up with such shit in their lives. I hope it is helpful to you too to be able to stand up for your feelings and sense of dignity.

So your partner asks you if he can touch you before he does? Everytime? I honestly had no idea that people conducted relationships like that. It is alien to me.

Also peopel didn't say a lover should have to ensure consent before carrying out every single sexual act. They said he should ensure consent before penetrating another human being's body. Not that big an ask, surely? How many men would be comfortable with the idea that their body could be penetrated by their lovers/ civil partners/ wife's vibrator without their consent?

Thistle It is good that you have a clear view on your feelings now... It took me a long time for my mind to go back to normal.

Nancy The whole point in this thread is not that the OP just let it happen but that she did say no after he started, several times.

So is there any point in you continuing to make your point?

It is not valid in this argument.

Click the link!

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LOL at the idea tht showing normal basic respect for your partner's bodily integrity, means that you have to ask him/ her every time you touch them.

That's the other old myth that's dragged out to try and pretend that respecting people's bodies, means that everyone is frigid and unable to communicate except in a Sheldon-from-the-Big-Bang-Theory-manner.

HerBeX That's because Sheldon is only allowed to have sex once every 7 years because he lives a Vulcan life.... :o

But no, any normal person trying to initiate sex should be able to tell just by body signals, or lack of that they don't want to.

HerbeX and I have agreed that of course any man should ensure consent before penetration. Do you really think that I have been arguing the contrary?

What I find distasteful (and again for the avoidance of doubt this has nothing to do with the OP situation but relates to subsequent comments) is that any man who touches his lover before she is fully awake is a rapist.

If my DH and I have had sex the previous night and I awake in the morning fancying a repeat performance and (for example) fondle his penis in an attempt to wake him but before he is awake I do not believe this makes me a sexual predator any more than it would him if the situ was reversed.

Nancy, yes, my lovely DP does have my implied consent to give me a sneaky hug or kiss when I am awake. He also has my implied consent to hug me when I am sleeping, and if I am sleeping lightly, to stroke my leg or back or arm to see if I can be woken with a sense of pleasure. These are all gestures which can be taken further into lovemaking, or can end there as nothing more than a loving touch.

Because he is a decent man, he would not touch my genitals or breasts, or try to stick his penis in me without knowing that I positively wanted him to do so. Because he only has the desire to carry out a sex act with me when he knows that I am enjoying it, and he cannot know this if I am asleep. He is intelligent enough to know that it can be painful to touch such sensitive areas if I am not aroused.

I am sorry if your DH is not so keen to establish that you are enjoying yourself before taking his sexual pleasure.

Would you stick something up his arse while he was sleeping Nancy?

Thistle My partner would also never just try and get it on with me while I am asleep, he does the same as yours and strokes my back.

If I don't reply to his signals he will leave me alone and just hug me.

mamzon "buttons - do you also believe that if you leave your window open then you deserve to be burgled? If you drive an expensive car do you deserve to have it stolen? If your teen has nice trainers do they deserve to be mugged? "

Deserve is not the right word. No one deserves to have nasty things happen to them. BUT if you leave your door or window open then yes you are a fool and are like;y to get burgled! Yes if you have a swish expensive car you ARE more likely to have it stolen or scratched and yes if you are a teen in desirable trainers you stand a higher chance of being mugged because of it.
No of this is deserved, but it is a fact. if you choose to do any of these things you need to be aware of the likely hood of being burgled , mugged have you goods stolen.
That's life and however much we say " that's not right or fair" it doesn't change the fact that it always be the case.

strawberrymew as with all debates this one went off on a tangent. MY point was made in relation to some comments made earlier. I have been pulled up on them and have been accused of being a rape apologist and alligning myself against victims and decent men. I thought that unfair so have sought to rebut those allegations.

But I am happy to leave you all to it

Nancy no one is saying a man who ssumes implied consent to touch his partner is a rapist.

What we are saying is that a man who continues to try to have sex with his partner after she has said 'no' is a rapist.

Your point about implied consent to physical contact between partners is totally and utterly irrelevant to the case in point. I don't understand why you're labouring it.

but nancy, you partner is asking for consent every time he touches you. not verbally maybe, but I am sure that if you don't want to be touched you will tell him or show him that you don't give your consent.

It sounds as bit as though something else happened to the OP. Something had changed. While she implies that it is normal to be prodded, something made this time different. Was the man behaving in a threatening way? Or in a way to feel threatened by?

Sex can be complicated and feeling co-erced into doing something you don't want because bad things will happen if you don't is awful.

What changed from the night before?

It is horrible to feel violated.

Madonna I agree.

bigbuttons, I regularly leave my car unlocked because I'm forgetful. Luckily it smells and is dirty so no-one wants to steal it. Also once I went out and left my front door open because I thought I'd locked it. I hadn't and when I got back I went straight to checkk that my ipod, dvd player etc were still there. There were no burglars around you see, so I didn't get burgled. There was no risk, because the burglars were elsewhere that day.

Women are only at risk of rape, if they are in the company of rapists.

snaaiiiilmaaaaiiiilll he wasn't prodding her, he was attempting to penetrate her while she was sleeping. This, by legal defination, is rape. He did not stop when she asked him to, several times. Can no-one read ffs.

It doesn't matter that she had sex with him earlier in the night, it wouldn't even matter if she fucking well married him earlier in the night, or promised that she would have sex with him again when he woke up. Unless she explicitly told him he was allowed to have sex with her while she was sleeping at anytime he wanted, then it's rape.

snaaiiiilmaaaaiiiilll he wasn't prodding her, he was attempting to penetrate her while she was sleeping. This, by legal defination, is rape. He did not stop when she asked him to, several times. Can no-one read ffs.

It doesn't matter that she had sex with him earlier in the night, it wouldn't even matter if she fucking well married him earlier in the night, or promised that she would have sex with him again when he woke up. Unless she explicitly told him he was allowed to have sex with her while she was sleeping at anytime he wanted, then it's rape.

nowaynohow no I don't think it was your fault not in the slightest. I have not used the word fault at any point. It is never a woman's fault if she is raped. But as Annie said, pretty well, that there are times when a person might well take a risk, Like I did when i shared a bed with a man a knew pretty well, but not THAT well.
All the times I walked home at 3 am through brixton to Peckham on my own, pissed. That was pretty stupid. If someone had raped me it wouldn't have been my fault. But I putting myself at great risk and was lucky.
There are many times when rape happens when there is no apparent risk at all, like in your case. A trusted friend assaults and rapes you and should be put away for it, no question.

As I said earlier no one ever deserves to be a victim of crime, not ever, but being aware of possible risks, trying not to put yourself at risk is very very important and should come before any ideologies about the right to dress in a certain way or walk down a dark alley in a rough area in the middle of the night. Because your ideologies are not going to stop the rapist, the thief or the mugger. Sure you have 'the right' to walk down the road in you bra and knickers should it so please you, but that wouldn't be sensible would it?