OK, new beginnings, new thread, it WAS right to serve divorce papers!

[Wisedupwoman]

I asked the question - Am I right to serve the divorce papers on my chameleon-like but definitely cheating, lying, cruel and manipulative STBXH. You all said "YES". So I have. The story continues.........

Mediator has emailed. We both get an individual 20 minute meeting with him prior to mediation together. That's when he gets an idea of whether it will work, is my guess.

For my part, having just found a letter he wrote to me in 2007 in which he repeatedly says he doesn't want a divorce and is still so in love with me despite the (then) furious rows we were having about the first OW - well, all I can say is I wish I hadn't found it.

My god, what happened to us?

These special days can sometimes hightlight the dysfunction in our relationships. They are just days in the calendar and whilst its kind of attractive to do the whole 'John Lewis Advert' thing with everything in soft focus, the reality for most people that having to celebrate these events are nothing but a nuisance. In my family, occasions merely highllight all the differences. It looks as though your DD is making up her own mind about her DF. Seems he started losing any credibility as an absent father when she clocked that he was lying to her.

Do you feel you can face the whole mediation thing with those parameters? I think you will also know pretty quickly yourself whether it will work.

Finding the letter . Out of the blue your feelings are crushed again. I don't know whether I am a great believer in fate, but perhaps it was something you had to find and deal with. Had you kept it for a reason?

Reading your last post reminds me immediately of the post that Annie wrote a while ago. The 'us' that you had was based on him getting everything he needed out of the relationship, regardless of whether you were OK. Hey, he could even go off with someone else but that was OK because he was so in love and that made all the betrayal acceptable... It was all about him and he's never had the guts, even now, to admit that to anyone, never mind himself.

Reading your last post reminds me immediately of the post that Annie wrote a while ago. The 'us' that you had was based on him getting everything he needed out of the relationship, regardless of whether you were OK. Hey, he could even go off with someone else but that was OK because he was so in love and that made all the betrayal acceptable... It was all about him and he's never had the guts, even now, to admit that to anyone, never mind himself.

I found the letter because I discovered I put the wrong memory stick in the bags with his stuff in. Thinking it was the one I bought as a replacement to do my interview presentation on I stuck it in the computer. It's got all his stuff on it and then I noticed the letter, which was one of many we wrote to each other when talking just got us arguing again.

What you say about it being ok to go off with someone else because he loved me so much it didn't matter, is exactly the justification he gave - exactly, Alldownhill. I was his one and only, the love of his life, the woman he'd loved and cherished these past years so I shouldn't doubt that, just because he needed other friendships and interests. Fact was, other than the few joint friends we had, he didn't have other friendships. Only certain ones as I now know.

I think I should have your nickname and you should have mine.

I've been thinking about changing my nickname. My current one came after a particularly bad morning when my face felt it had partly fallen off, plus the fact that a major birthday is coming towards me like an express train!

I know that from time to time love gets bent and stretched depending on what life is throwing at us. We all mess around those who we are closest to. But... to actually go down the script of 'love of my life' blah, blah, then proceed to question YOUR loyalty when he strays, takes some doing.

Which bit did he think didn't matter?

Loving someone means that you really don't even consider anyone else. Fair enough, you might look around, enjoy some eye-candy, some flirting, some lusting after some fit bloke on the telly. It also means that you are not 'available' and you don't give off the 'up for it' signals. (and that doesn't mean that you can't enjoy yourself ).

Sounds as though PTM was out for the main chance, but kept his moral compass balanced by believing in his loved-up family man image. He wasn't the sort of guy who'd dump on his family, they meant too much to him and his professional image.

So the letter is on the memory stick? The stilettos would make short work of that - then again, why ruin a good pair of shoes?!!

Well said alldownhill now!

The memory stick soooo needs crunching. Really cross about the 2007 letter, what a load of shit! And then to treat you so badly after all that - he was/is all about the drama (for/about him).

Mediation: stressful to have looming, but the new wisey will be in the building. Are you clear yet on what you want from any eventual settlement? Cos ptm wil try to sell you a load of bs (as in the old letter).

Yes really well said, it's like you know him better, but differently than me actually.

The memory stick with all his 'important' documents. Ah, well, accidents do happen.

Mediation. the only thing I'm sure I want is half the pension. And as much of everything else I can get. I'm going to cut and paste some of these truly wonderful posts and stick them in a book I'll be 'reading' in the waiting room - that's if after the initial individual meeting it even goes ahead.

Anyway, just collected DD from her prom. She looks absolutely stunning, a really beautiful young woman in the making.

Thats the perfect end to tonight's chatter.

Its the future that's important. Your DD has shone a light on that tonight with her prom. (Looking at her tonight, you know you have done something right )

You have made tonight happen for her. You have selflessly given her this moment and this is something that will be a marker for you. Give yourself a pat on the back and soak up some of the joy which I am sure she will be experiencing tonight.

Alldownhillnow: wonderful posts, your insight is inspiring and amazing.

Your PTM is jawdroppingly arrogant Wisey. Lycra man is the same. The way ptm tried to justify his affair because he loved you so much - wtf??

If you love someone so much, you never put their happiness at risk; you never take the chance of ruining that love.

I am at the stage now when I am seeing the role I played in Lycra man thinking that he deserved better than us. I think I bigged him up too much, I fed that huge ego too much, I listened to his woes, I encouraged him to develop as the big professional wonder that he thinks he is. I did more childcare stuff and house stuff than I should have done, whilst he developed a career. I thought he was doing it for all of us - I thought his feet were on the ground, and that his love for me and the kids was set in stone. I thought he would put us first, because I had always put him and kids first. That was my mistake. I think I made too many excuses for his moods (he's grumpy because he had a huge meeting about millions of ££s expenditure - he won't go out with us because he has so much on his mind - so needs to chill out on sofa with sky sports on a loop all weekend; he can't help you with your maths homework, because he needs to have a break from figure work, etc etc). Whenever he moaned about relationships with colleagues, I immediately soothed him, told him what he wanted to hear, and supported him unconditionally.

He never did the same for me. Never. But that was ok (I thought) because at the end of the day - we were both on the same page. But we weren't. In his head he was planning to go - whilst I was running around like a demented thing trying to keep all the plates spinning. So I now accept my part in this. And I've forgiven myself - because I did it all for the family - for the man I thought I'd always be with, for the man I thought would never in a million years think about walking out.

Spoke to BIL last night - he said that Lycra man would have been nothing without me - absolutely nothing. Made me wonder what he would be in the future.....

Aaah, DD's prom, hope she had a lovely time with her friends.

Saffysmum, your ex sounds like hard work, now you don't have to do it anymore, can pour some of that support into yourself.

I have two tiny girls (littlest not sleeping so am up at weird hours with her or insomnia) and it's nice to look ahead to them being young women (and nice that parenting teenagers is many years away yet -the teenage stuff makes parenting babies and toddlers, which am finding hard, seem easy!)

When their teenage years cone I hope that I'll be as good a mum to them as you wisey, saffysmum and others on here.

Too right about the pension, too many women don't have good provision and is v important.

Well three cheers for Harriet Harman is what I say.

Dozer, good morning, as you can see I'm back to the early morning waking but without the tiny tots!

In my ideal (and this is the trouble, I don't know what a good settlement is), I think I deserve all the equity in the house, half the lump sum and half the pension, and DD should get 15% in maintenance til she finishes education.

If anyone can tell me that I'm being unreasonable/greedy I'd really like to know because I simply have no idea. I'd base this on the length of our relationship, my role as home-maker (if not main financial provider, but a working mother all the same - I never sat back and watched the money roll in) and my potential quality of life as a single parent.

I'm kind of scared to say that in case I get laughed out of the room by mediator/ptm.

it has given me strength reading your post. after 22 years of marriage and 2 grown-up sons age 20 and 17 i found out the other week that my husband had been having an affair for the past 2 years. My world has turned upside down because it was so unexpected. He was unfaithful in 2002 and i took him back, the boys were a lot younger then and i was in a different place in my life. due to this trauma i now have a massive muscle spasam in my back that i am being treated for and have not been able to sleep. i now have sleeping tablets from the drs so am a trying to get back on track, still early days. see a solicitor on tuesday, need to know what's next, what are my rights, what am i entitled too ....??? so many questions ....

It depends how much equity it is.

I would have thought half the pension and lump sum is ok,

Saff I recognise myself in your post, except for one thing.

Every time I would attempt to raise stuff about what I could see he was struggling with, he would shut me down, dismiss my efforts - I just wasn't 'getting it'. Meanwhile I was completely transparent and did rely on him heavily - it's what made the marriage sustainable for so long and fed his ego. Until, I guess someone else came along who fed it even more than I could, having run out of steam and beginning to challenge the way it was.

I can see now how hard I worked to give him what he needed whilst I neglected my own needs. I don't have to do that any more, but it's consumed my life for so long I'm only part of the way to recognising what my needs are and how to get them fulfilled. I've come a long way in a very short time, I know that.

I have a RL friend who 3 years after her split is waiting for the apology that will never come, and she refuses to let go of the idea that this will give her the ending she wants. She goes from relationship to relationship which goes nowhere because in the back of her mind she is waiting for her X to come through the door and fall onto his knees. I know her X and he won't do that.

Saff I know that there is no way back for PTM with me. It really wouldn't make any difference to me if he was to have a light-bulb moment and see how devastating this has been. If this is to happen it's for him to deal with it on his own and not to dump it on me.

Bit of a ramble there. I'm really sad you're going through this Saff, but I'm also glad you're here and we can share the ups and downs.

Thanks Dozer - yes he was hard work, and it is such a relief not to have to "mother" him anymore. Thanks also for saying that I'm doing a good job with the kids - I enjoy teenagers company very much (mad I know!) and although he can be so difficult, their love makes it all worthwhile. I found having 4 little ones, born within 5 years!) very hard, probably because I was always so exhausted.

eevv - sorry to hear about your situation. Your solicitor will help you about what to do next, well done on seeing one so quickly - it really does help.

Wisey - have pm'd you.

This, what it's reasonable and realistic to ask for, is what your sol should be telling you. If you have to do all your own homework then what, precisely, are you paying the useless bugger professional for? A snazzy letter-heading? You're getting more useful, accurate advice for nothing on a forum of random internet bods, most of whom have no legal training and whose names you don't even know in most cases, than from a well-paid legal expert. Something isn't quite right here. Divorce the bastard! And I don't mean PTM this time!

That was to Wisey btw. There's nothing wrong with eevv asking some questions in advance of seeing the solicitor. For that I'd say make a list in advance of the most important things you want to ask. A solicitor who knows his/her stuff, preferably a divorce or family law specialist, will be able to steer you in the right direction and answer any questions you hadn't thought of. Have at least a rough idea of your finances and assets to hand if possible.

eevv, hello you're most welcome here.

Your sol will want to know what you want to do and she will base her advice on what you tell her. If you want to start divorce proceedings, take your marriage cert with you. She'll tell you that you have to try mediation (I hate that word) unless there has been DV or CA and it's not safe or there are other grounds.

You'll need to take details of your mortage, who it's with, what the balance is and the value of the home (to the best of your knowledge). Any other financial and details of your DC's as well.

Really the first meeting is about establishing the current situation. You'll get a letter from her summarising what you discussed and her initial advice. Then it's up to you what you do.

As for everything else well there's a list as long as your arm and it depends on how you have been splitting things up to now - whether you have seperate incomes, who pays the bills, whose name they're in, and so on. I don't want to overload you though, you sound distraught and i'm not surprised you have a medical condition as a result.

But you're welcome to come here and ask. Look after yourself that's the main thing I think. This is a complicated process you are going through and the emotional side can often feel overwhelming. But it isn't beyond you - you've already shown that.

eevv: make sure your solicitor specialises in family law; does legal aid (you may qualify, I don't know), and hopefully offers a free first session (mine did an hour free).

I had to take my passport, 3 months bank statements/pay slips, copy of marriage cert. I also took my latest p60 as it confirms last years pay. They should be able to advise you about tax credits, etc., which can help.

Mine moved very quickly - sent me a questionaire prior to meeting, so she had a good idea about everything - kids, ages, length of marriage, etc. Saw her early May, now divorce petition is lodged. You may just want initial advice so like Annie says, write down everything you need to ask. And if you don't gel with the sol, then find another one. You have to have total faith and trust in their ability to help you, because if you do go down the divorce route, it's crucial that you can rely on them 100%

Saff have pm'd you in response.

i agree with all that Annie and Saff say. I'm going to ring round sol's on Monday to try and get a free half hour and a better sol. I've had no advice on what to ask for, none, hence I keep bringing it here, and yes, getting more useful advice from people who have been there, done that.

God, I'm sorry all. I'm such a plank sometimes.