OK, new beginnings, new thread, it WAS right to serve divorce papers!

[Wisedupwoman]

I asked the question - Am I right to serve the divorce papers on my chameleon-like but definitely cheating, lying, cruel and manipulative STBXH. You all said "YES". So I have. The story continues.........

Hey nome, yes I do, and I'm just about to compose an email to him questioning whether mediation is going to work for these reasons:

Great, stbx is saying lets do mediation but actually he's not available.

stbx's parents live 250 miles away and stbx is back at work here so how he can do a 500 mile round trip daily and take care of elderly parents at he same time is beyond me, unless he's taken to wearing his underpants over his trousers (no I won't say that bit but you get the jist).

So he's lying. It came to me in a flash this morning - stbx's letter says two conflicting things. It says he's ready to talk in mediation but then it says I'll do it when I feel like it. In other words, he's stringing the sol and me along and hanging it out still. don't know why I didn't see that yesterday.
So he's angry, very angry and possibly a bit scared of having to face me and talk money (losing some).

Personally I no longer care which route we take now. But I am going to point out to my sol that one of the first things he told me about himself is that my stbx won't get one over on him, but this is clearly what he is trying to do.

Grrrrr again!

Morning!

Whatever is agreed between you both at mediation, will have to, by law, be run past both solicitors, it can then be amended. Your solicitor will advise you about the agreement, and whether it's best for you. This is then made into a legal binding document. So, worse case scenario - he wipes the floor with you at mediation, goes out thinking he's "gone one over" the solicitor will refute it, and refer you back to mediation, to get you a better deal. OR, the solicitor will take over, and get a better deal for you. So, no one can really get one over on anyone else in mediation. What it does is free up solicitors valuable time, and costs you less in costs. (My solicitor is nearly £200 an hour - the mediation I was quoted was £100 an hour).

My gripe with mediation, was that I would have to physically sit in the same room as Lycra man, and discuss stuff face to face with him. The thought made my stomach heave. So I did as I was advised to, by SHL, and did the initial session on my own. (Remember as petitioner you have a legal right to do the initial session on your own, then say it isn't working and bounce it all back to your solicitor).

So mediation is there for the legal profession, to free them up from all the financial stuff, and to move things along more quickly. However, if you are going to be disputing at mediation, then it doesn't really move stuff along at all. My SHL said that it's ok for amicable couples, who have already talked and agreed money/access stuff, and have perhaps been separated long term, so that they can bear to be in the same room.

She agreed that it would be a waste of time for me, and so did the mediator.

I know it costs more to do it all via a solicitor, but then the mental strain of facing an ex in mediation, and the worry of being "stitched up" (although as I explained, with a good lawyer in the background, this worry is groundless) costs a lot in an emotional sense.

Personally, I think you should do one session on your own, and bounce it back to your solicitor - he won't play ball, and he's stalling, and a mediator would see this. Then get your solicitor to try and get him to pay your court costs, citing his stalling as a reason. Also, at any point in mediation, you can stop the process, and refer it solicitors.

Good luck with the card - glad I helped a bit!!
X

Very strong and forthright email penned and sent to sol.

Won't bore you with the details but the tone says "stbx is taking the legal process, and you, for a fool, how long do you expect me and DD to wait in a state of limbo for this, and if you still insist I go to mediation I will but I'll withdraw the moment I see stbx is playing the system - now give me some advice"

Wisey is in the building!

Well done new Wisey!

Morning Saff and Minessa.

I'm the same. Just don't want to see him ever again if I can help it. But, we're in a game which has been going on for many years, the rules of which are only just becoming explicit, lets call it, 'catch if catch can'.

Roughly, the rules are these: one of us engages in pursuance of the other, who maintains a 'safe' distance lets say by becoming depressed or anxious, by overworking, or by introducing a third party. Sensing this withdrawal, the pursuer then attempts to reduce distance which by now feels unsafe and uncertain and becomes the distancer - trying get a sense of mastery over the situation. In return the one who has been keeping a 'safe' distance perceives the other as having changed the rules of the game and sensing this as an unsafe option, does an about turn and begins the cycle all over again.

PTM and me are doing exactly what we have always done but the context has changed which has exposed the game. This is what the mediation/court thing is all about. Now it's my turn to pursue him while he introduces the rule of 'looking after my parents first'. So he may be gone, but he hasn't left yet. I am detaching but having to stay connected to fully achieve this. It won't stop until one of us really does opt out altogether.

oh, yes!!! And I think you have the measure of the manipulation going on here now. He's avoiding anything that will make him face the truth.

I know you've said this, but to reply to Wellner, I think it is Wisey's duty to contact the MIL. DD's relationship with her GP's has nothing to do with the divorce but it is, more than likely, being threatened by PTM's selfish behaviour. I'm guessing, like others here, that he doesn't want his parents learning anything other than his version of the truth. That's not fair on DD, especially if they are as ill as he is saying...she may not have a lot of time with them left.

Wisey must make contact directly with MIL and then leave it up to them to contact back.

sorry, x posts....

I would add also that he is playing at this AND painting it to always look like your fault...

Hence the contradiction you have picked up in the letter...Glad you are finally ready for mediation.....I'm nursing elderly parents and may not always be available. You fault, not his.

neat, isn't it!

I doubt mediation will work for you Wisey; these games sound exhausting and a waste of time, and he's not worth the effort. Blow the whistle on them, go to mediation alone, kick it into touch, then bounce it back to the solicitors - the ball's in your court - show him the red card!

(See what I did then, all those references to games....)

Just got back from a delayed and exhausting but successful prom shoe shopping trip - thank heavens it's done.

Very nice Saffy, you could also have said it's a game of two halves and one of us is more than a match for the other.....

But seriously though, if I want a resolution to this, I'm going to need to sit tight and keep my head. As long as it takes for him to get to the table and talk (mediation or court) I'm going to have to be patient and let him get on with avoidance until he and I are made to do this.

The truth is, going by his actions, he isn't 'ready' himself any more than I am although I am the one appearing to be now. Neither of us want it really. We both, I believe, want the end of our marriage but neither of us want anything to change, and of course we can't have that. Mediation or court will bring about that change, the one that puts new 'relationship rules' in place which stops the pattern of our relationship over 20 years, and it's a hard one to break especially when a new one hasn't yet been established. So I get it, his avoidance and manipulations of the system.

Got to go for a bit, my M and D have just turned up.
xx

Hmm... methinks you're having an Old Wisey moment - forgive me if I misinterpreted your mood. It sounds as though, having identified the game and recognised it's still being played, you've kind of gone "ah, that's the way we always did it... we've played this game together for years... together... ah, we're still together, we're still dancing round each other just like old times, we're a unit, a team, TOGETHER..." You're playing "I Know Him So Well" in your subconscious and dropping a surreptitious tear. You believe you understand what he's doing and it gives you sympathy with him.

FOR GOD'S SAKE REMEMBER THE HANKIES, WOMAN!

Arf, Arf at Annie

I haven't forgotten the hankies (I'll never forget the hankies), I've just realised what we do, is all. I don't love him any more and I'm sad we had to end this way - but I hope with every fibre of my being that I'm able to observe him come to a sticky and lonely end. And yep, I'd love that he comes crawling back before then, begging my forgiveness. He won't get it, some things are simply unforgiveable.

Maybe if I say this is the invitation I'm being extended by him: "Wisey, I know you of old, so I'm just gonna do more of what I do (because I know no different and it's always worked for me in the past) , and you'll follow on likewise".

But I'm not. The two defining moments were when I made him go before he was ready to leave and when I stopped all the contact from me to him. He hasn't recognised this yet, or if he has he is still doing the same old, same old. My frustration is that he hasn't (and probably won't now until we're actually through the legal channels) changed his game, he's upped it and it's all the more obvious now I've got my head around it.

Do not fear Annie, the only tears I shed these days are for those whom I care about!

#phew#

Whatever you might have been able to forgive him for, what he did to your DD (and continues to do) is well beyond the pale.

Absolutely.

Guess what though? My darling D came to see me this avo and he's buying me the gift of a lappy! Soon you'll be out of the study (you must be sick of the sight) and joining me on my big comfy sofa in front of the tele and the fireplace and it'll be super! (first come first served for the seats though, some might have to sit on the floor).

Now ain't he lovely?

BTW, can anyone tell me WTF a 'troll' is? Keep seeing it on other threads I've been noseying in on.

Dont' want to start a thread on the subject, all sorts of stuff might come out, as I get the impression it ain't good.

a troll comes on and pretends they are someone that they are not, making up a fake story, in order to either totally wind everyone up or because they love the attention they get by making up sad stories. The worst I have heard of are the ones who try to get people to be sexually explicit.

Troll hunters like to 'out' trolls by cleverly spotting the flaws in their posts and then hound them off by bullying. All very well as long as you have not just picked on some poor unfortunate who genuinely needs help. Apparently, a clue is often a post that begins 'i've name changed for this...'

people are supposed to report trolls to MN and not engage with the thread. MN can spot those who are regularly name changing or who are new to the site.

Thanks Migrating, all clear now.

Glad you are getting a lappy Wisey! I have a little netbook which I love, and am currently typing away in bed!! This is the life, kids all busy and happy, we are all fed, and I'm in my HUGE bed, all snuggly with 3 cats for company and a large glass of red. Yes, I know it's early, but I've worked lots of nights lately, and my sleep pattern is shot to pieces.

Like me, you are at least one step ahead of your ex. Mine is still acting as if we are still together, but I've reverted back to the real, feisty me. And he thinks he's still dealing with the careworn, treading on eggshells with him on a pedestal me, but she left when he did!

Bless their cotton (oddly paired, days of the week) socks. It's like taking candy off a baby.

Anyways, father's day next weekend: this is where we're at: Eldest son bought lovely pressie for his grandfather (my dad). Bought nothing, nor intends to, for Lycra man. Eldest daughter - said she won't bother, she doesn't miss him, doesn't love him, etc. Younger girl - going to buy him some fake tan. YS - well, I got some cheap aftershave and a card for him to give him.

What are you/your lot doing (if anything?)

Oh I love the sound of your evening Saff, it sounds perfect. I'll be able to do that too soon!
I've been wondering about father's day. Thought about getting the T-shirt Chips gave the link to with Crap Dad logo on it. We haven't talked about it me and DD.
Personally I would rather give him a big fat zero, but I'll see what DD wants to do. It would be rather lovely if he gets the call from the CSA on Friday, just the ticket for a great father's day weekend in my book.
It's 3 months today, you know. I've been reflecting a bit, but not tormented at all, just some regrets.

You're sounding brilliant though, really sorted and on top of everything. Your stbx should be kicking himself for being such an arsehole. You're an inspiration to me, you are.

Aw, you're so sweet, you're the inspiration! I suppose because we kind of separated mentally - living together but so apart for over a year, the last few weeks have been a relief for me - no more feeling like a spare part in my own home. I'm such a home bird, and it was horrible - my sanctuary being the last place I wanted to be in, when he was here. But now it's ours again, and it's lovely. It would be great timing if PTM gets a call from the CSA just before Father's day. It's sad though - there I was looking at all the cards today to chose one for youngest son to give, and they were all so inappopriate - "greatest dad...one in a million....you're the best" etc. None of them applied to his sorry excuse for a dad - but they all applied to my dear dad. At least my kids have a great Grandpa!

Thanks Saff. I'm not going to mention father's day unless DD does. Hopefully it'll pass us by unnoticed. Is that awful of me?

Mmm. Fathers day.

Old Wisey keeps being plagued with the 'my marriage is over' type thoughts. New Wisey keeps trying to say, yes, but it's for the best and this too will pass.

What a lovely dad you do have. Now you see, that's what fathers should do, buy their daughters laptops. Not promise that they can have one and then tell them to go and ask their mother for the money.

To be honest, I think a bit fat zero is better than a crap dad T-shirt any time. The latter shows you've spent some thought and money on him, even if the thoughts were negative. Indifference is more cutting, and you could do something more productive with the money.

Yeah, and tbh I'd rather spend what little spare I've got on something(one) worthwhile.

I can't wait for my lappy though, really excited.

Thanks Annie. You've got the measure, as always.