Support for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships

[ViVee]

I thought it would be a good idea to start a thread, a place to vent, offer support, advice.

I'm in an emotionally abusive relationship but I'm trying to find the tools to fight back - I've recently started counselling & the Lundy Bancroft book (Why Does He Do That? Inside The Minds of Angry and Controlling Men) (recommended by mumsnetters) has become my bible.

Anyone else feel the same?

teahouse that is a rubbish saying, what matters is that you are kind to yourself. It is how you feel about yourself that matters in reality. if you feel shit then no matter how much you are love you will still feel shit.
I don't know how you can stop the relationship pattern you have got yourself into. Perhaps actually not striving to be in a relationship might help? You know getting to know and like yourself for a while.
I think then you will be in a much better position to know what you want from a relationship in the future. The only person you need to rely in is yourself. Make a friend of yourself first.

Nicecuppatea....you are so so right. It has taken me over 23 yrs to realise that. Having had 3 emotionally abusive partners who treated me badly, I have only now come to point where I see what went wrong and what I should have done to change things.
I see now that I chose these men who were self centred , emotinally abusive and aggressive because of my mother. I am not totally blaming her, because in life we all make choices. However, I see now they were like her. They were moody, difficult, short tempered, self centred and critical. They didnt put me first second or last. I ended up being a total doormat and they broke my heart indifferent ways.
Nothing would give me more pleasure now than to see my Exs' girlfriend say to me that she is experiencing the same shite that i put up with... manipulative controlling abusive behaviour from him....

jelly? why would you be happy to hear that another woman is going through what you went through? I'd WEEP for her, I know I would.

Are you saying that to know it wasn't YOU that caused it?

Of course it wasn't. It's HIM. These men CHOOSE to treat us like this and for one reason or another we think we have to put up with it.

We don't.

No amount of therapy or ADs or Woo therapy will change the fact that the person we are/were with is treating us like shit.

They will only change if they want to, and you are asking them to give up all their rights to a ridiculously high level of entitlement. It can happen, according to Lundy, but only in extremely and he means EXTREMELY rare circumstances.

The problem is that we fall in love with the game face, the charming facade designed to pull us in. That facade slips, it has to, because it's fake, but we spend the rest of our relationship hanging on in there for it's return.

We know it's there, cos he was nice in the beginning wasn't he? If I please him, do what he says, let him do whatever he wants, he'll be that nice person I met again, won't he....... WON'T HE????????

coffeedodger I agree with Herhissy... I would be highly dubious of any abusive man who wants to change. I can't remember of the top of my head, but I think Lundy Bancroft says if he wanst to change then you move out for 6 months minimum and see if he has made any progress at all.

I'm sorry if that's harsh for you to listen to but I don't believe that these men can change at all except in really exceptional circumstances .

In face I just spoke to my ex on the phone to arrange contact with our kids and he said (6 months after I left him) that he "would still take me back in an instant and things could go back to the way they were" seriously wtf... He thinks that this is just a big joke and that I am having a "dramatic thing" which I will get over and come back to him. I was totally and asked him to clarify, he says that he is willing to put this behind us and move on together

I would put money on your H being exactly the same, it would last a few weeks or maybe months and then you would be back to square one again.

It is a fact that these men don't need anger management because they are not angry. Have you read Lundy bancroft
www.amazon.co.uk/Why-Does-He-That-Controlling/dp/0425191656/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1306773580&sr=8-1
Pleaes read it and consider hard before you even contemplate having anything else to do with him... sweetheart you deserve better, you can have better, in fact I would say that it would be better to be on your own than live with an abusive partner.

Please read the book

jelly I have spoken to 3 former partners of my exH... He has a total of 7 kids including my 3. He has absolutely no interest in the first 4 and has told them so. He has made an excellent job of screwing up 4 women's lives (including mine) and we are all lucky to have escaped from him and that we all have support to help us to move on with our lives.

The mother of his first child who left him 18 years ago says that she still hasn't come to terms with what he did to her and her son is so angry about his dad. it breaks my heart to see the destruction that he has caused over the last 20 years and it continues, he has also damaged my children, so that's 7 kids lives who have been tainted by him and his nastiness as well as at least 4 women and their families and their subsequent partners as they all have issues now with trust, self esteem etc etc.

I am unable to look at my exH without feeling sick knowing what he has actally done and I am unable to have a conversation with him face to face as it just makes me want to cry. Not tears of sadness or anything, just seeing him unleashes a huge wave of emotion in me, anger, frustration, bitterness, sadness and so much more. And I know that his other 3 former partners still feel exactly the same way.

These men should be ashamed of themselves for leaving a trail of destruction and devastation behind them without a care in the world... I would not wish him on anybody.

However, I do understand that I would feel alot better if he did meet somebody else and then he would leave me alone... but I still wouldn't wish him on anybody

sorry coffee messed up link

www.amazon.co.uk/Why-Does-He-That-Controlling/dp/0425191656/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1306773580&sr=8-1

A dramatic thing Humpty? you'll be over it and go back to him.... , he's willing to put this behind us and move on together. What the actual f**K?

Can you hear the delusion there? the entitlement is STILL there isn't it? [twat]
(I'll keep using it, till MNHQ make me an emoticon for it)

Oh yes, the anger stuff, funny how they can manage their anger with everyone, their boss, their friends, but not US.

actually HH if you have a minute, could you give me a hand picking up all my toys that I threw out of my pram!!!!

Seriously, what is wrong with this wanker????

Don't worry I have NOOOOOO intention of going back with him even for 1 minute but the arrogance of him is beyond belief!

Seriously, that book ought to be distributed to everyone on a mandatory basis and followed in the way of Chairman Mao and his little red book.

Interesting piece on woman's hour this morning, anyone catch it?

Regarding DV in Turkey.

48% of women are subjected to sexual or physical abuse. Interesting comment came when the woman interviewed was asked why more was not being done, why these crimes went largely unreported/unpunished.

She said, if 48% of women are being beaten or violated be a man, then this means that 48% of men beat their wives, girlfriends, sisters etc. Judges, policemen, doctors... and so on, so when a woman gets up the courage to seek help she has a slightly less than 50:50 chance that the person she is speaking to ALSO beats their wife/gf etc, so will somehow think she had it coming.

The statistic here I believe is 25% of all relationships are abusive.

bloody hell!
Aparently a woman is assaulted in the UK every 6 seconds and every minute the police recieve a call for assistance with domestic violence... it is terrible.

I reckon they should axe some of those crap GCSE's they do... and replace it with DV training for men and women and somebody like you hissy or me should go teach it.

god help any of my boys if they turn out to be abusive!!!

It's the anger we get humpty when we realise how flaming long we put up with them in the first place!

I'm surprised I don't have a palm shaped mark on my face from slapping myself to much these last couple of months.

The mini flashbacks are the worst.

Actually seeing as tons of spleen venting has gone before me and people have admitted tons. There is one thing I need to get out there, due to a comment on the Woman's Hour programme.

She said 'From the most extreme of Abuse, like "kicking a pregnant woman in the stomach", to a mere slap'

Is that the most extreme of abuse then? it is isn't it? The first blow I received as a PG woman (there were a few before I was PG) [facepalm] was a kick to the stomach. I have to process that somehow, I've just brushed it under the carpet. no-one saw it, so it didn't exist right?

2 women die a week due to DV.

DS (5) knows daddy is not with us anymore because he shouted at me. He asked me once if he hit me. I said yes.

I'm not going to let daddy have a moment of normality, disney dad stuff, why should he. DS will learn that Daddy left because he couldn't treat us properly. Dads that hit Mums are not going to stay.

It's all I can do. Dunno if I'm right or wrong, but I felt it's better to be truthful, rather than lie to the one person that needs to understand why mum and dad aren't together any more.

what a load of shite... My exH first wife had a bunch of miscarriages.. she told me he was extremely violent... he beat her with a stick on their wedding night ffs, she thinks that the miscarriages could have been due to the violence... Fucking nasty bastard he is...

I cried when I found that out, I guess I was lucky in terms of violence, but he tortured me mentally much worse

Hissy you don't need a slap in the face, it wasn't your fault.

The anger is definately the strongest emotion I have now and it just pops up out of nowhere.

Hope it feels a wee bit better to let that out Hissy.

Think I need a !!

I've said before, as violent and shocking as it is to be physically beaten, the scars usually heal by themselves, they don't need self-help books, therapy, counselling, group hugs or fora.

It actually makes me really angry, you fuck us up then leave us with the damage to clear up ourselves?

No hissy you were right to tell the truth, as far as a 5 year old needs to hear it...

I told my kids that we left because daddy was so nasty to me and them and told us all off all the time for no reason at all. And because he was angry all the time.

in a taxi on the day I left H, dd (age 5) hugging me asking me why am I crying and me saying that I needed my mum to help me because I feel so sad because of what he did to us all. God I felt awful being comforted by a 5 year old who was so scared... Shit made me cry now to thinkn about it

Now when they talk about it, ds (now age 5) says daddy can't come in this house cos mummy doesn't want him in here becauase of all the times he was nsasty to her. And then he always adds... And daddy was nasty to me too.

Poor little things are so confused, they love their dad but they are also frightened of him. Ds refuses to speak to him on the phone. And when the see him, I think he has managed 4 visits total since we left in December, they come home so upset and it takes days for them to calm down, they have nightmares, they cant' sleep on their own for weeks, they are painfully shy etc etc etc

And that fucking bastard just walks away from this scott free without a care in the world. I have now realised that there is no point in trying to get any type of revenge because this man has the emotinoal range of a slug and is incapable of feeling normal emotions so you can't hurt hiim like he hurt me or anybody else. So I am trying as best I can to move on and hope that karma gets him in the end. Trouble is he's so gutless he won't wait for karma, he will commit suicide before then.. and leave even more destruction behind him.

Ah yes, the suicide attempts, another twisted nasty way to abuse people and manipulate them... wanker

You think I was right to be honest? It felt right at the time.

He won't do the world a favour and kill himself, how on earth could the earth turn without him?

My DS doesn't want to talk to has dad either and that was before I answered his question.

Saddest words I've ever heard were DS saying 'I don't like seeing you like this mummy', when I welled up and let a sob escape in the days after he left.

You've heard the saying 'Living well is the best revenge'? it was created for us WRT our exs!

With me, I suppose I just want absolute total proof that my Ex is like that with every other partner, and i wasnt just me.
I also feel cross that I have let DS see his dad every weekend... after the nasty aggression I suffered from my Ex. I just didnt thave the heart to prevent my son having a father....even if he is a total bastard to women.

I do get that, i do understand actually.

I now wonder if my x's ex (IYKWIM) had issues with x. on one of the last times she saw x she told him she would meet him in a neutral place, with a friend of hers by her side. Another time he met her at their home the woman's DD called the Police. Think I didn't get the whole story with that relationship? He did meet her in a hostel, where she was fleeing from her violent and abusive exP...

Your X ruined the chance to be a dad, because he chose to be an abusive twat. Make sure he is only a positive influence in your DS life. Last thing this world needs is your X making a mini-me version of himself.

herhissy and jelly try to contact them and ask them...

1 of my ex's ex was in contact with us wrt their son.

Another one, I found her phone number online after I left and decided to phone her one day to ask her if he was the same to her....

Another one I found on facebook, she had the same story.

I have contacted another 2 but had no response... but suspect their story is the same.

Alot of people found that wierd that I contacted these women, but there's no problem between us, he didn't dump one of us for the other or anything like that iyswim... We are now friends together and have all found it strangely therapeutic and it definately helped me to realise it Really wasn't me it's him

I think Lundy says you should speak to ex's if you can find them to hear their side too!

It doesn't change anything, he's still an arsehole but it makes me feel better that these other strong, decent women got taken in by him too and also that all 3 of them now have found decent blokes who treat them right and they have worked thru thier issues and put them behind them (as much as anyone can)!!

WRT the suicide, I felt terrible about it when he tried, it was in response to me leaving a few years ago... I thought it wasn't fair to leave him if he was mentally unstable enough to kill himself . I have now learnt that this is a classic tactic of abusers, his ex's have told me that he did it several times to each of them too... And I have worked thru the guilt so much that if he threatened me with suicide now, I would offer to give him twenty quid to buy himself some paracetamol and a bottle of whiskey without feeling guilty myself . To some that will sound really callous but I now realise that even if I did buy him the stuff to do it with, it still would be his choice to kill himself and not my fault iyswim!

Herhissyness -I think you were right & brave to be honest.
Humpty - its heartbreaking to read that about your DCs, but if we're not honest, how can our DCs learn from what we've been through.

Telling it how it is, is a way of breaking the silence.

H has just gone back to his mums after spending the day here. Just before he left he told me that our 7yo DS is very upset that he isn't here as much as he was & I really need to think about the affect I'm having on him ...

ME 'the reason why you don't stay overnight here is due to your behaviour'
H 'you are always right, I'm wrong'
ME 'I won't play your right & wrong game'
I tune out of what H says (probably some sort of self important prattling) & say goodbye H, prattles/rants on again, I say goodbye (think there's a bit of a pattern here??)

Trying NOT to engage.

V xx

Hi ladies

jelly I left H several times before, the first time I stayed away 4 months and we only got back together on the condition that he did an anger management course. He did the course and became less shouty, but the abuse continued in different forms for another 3 years. I really dont believe any of them can change. Like hissy and Lundy Bancroft say, there is too much entitlement and privilege for them to give up - why would they? I second the encouragement to read his book, there is a chapter on recovery which has a checklist to look at so you can consider if they really have changed or if its just a show and temporary.

hissy my therapist told me to say this to 3 years old DS (re: not coming to his birthday party) "Daddy is not coming because he is angry with Mummy. Its not right that he is doing this, this is not how people should behave. If someone promises to go to a party they should stick to it, so Daddy is doing a bad thing. Its not your fault and nobody is angry with you, you havent done anything wrong"

I have told him the same kind of thing about why H doesnt live here anymore, with lots of emphasis on "its not your fault" I think that is the really important message that they need to hear over and over again, and yes, I totally agree you should point out bad behaviour - how very confusing it would be for them if you dont.

ladies with problem mothers going back to earlier comments about mothers. I have just read this for the first time and am so shocked. This is my family dynamic all over and I never knew. Apologies if you have all seen this, I found it on another thread today.
www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/

He's told me to write a list of his 'wrongs'. I won't. But if I did it would be:

1. You reversed the car into me, knocking me over, I hurt my wrist & you shouted at me because I didn't understand how upset you were.
2. You wanted me to have sex with you at your house, curtains open in full view of your neighbours. I refused, left & you bombarded me with phone calls about how upset you were that I'd rejected you.
3. In the week that a very close friend of mine died, you said I was being uptight because I wouldn't have sex with you (You did the same when I was pregnant with DS & bleeding).
4. You call DS stupid.
5. When my teenage DS (previous relationship) was attacked recently (racially motivated) you said he was asking for it.
6. First sex after DS was born - you said I could have a tummy tuck. You were being nice as you would pay for it.
7. You constantly accuse me of having affairs, being on drugs, being unhinged.
8. You talk over me & laugh at my opinion.
9. You think that men are superior to women
10. You say I'm shit with money, & shouldn't have any say in how it is spent, even though I have an economics degree & previous career in the finance industry.
11. You stopped me from pursuing a masters degree.

Could go on (& on) but .. one more thing:

You shave your balls to make your penis look bigger - it doesn't work.
AND you have man boobs & a saggy arse.

Feel better now ... hope you are all fighting the fight. Anyone else want to write a list??

V xx

vivee, the shaving his balls line is hysterical! pmsl!

OOh, let me think... I'll come back to you on that...

meanwhile, a little something to cheer us all up....

woman cuts off mans penis and takes it to police station as evidence

oooh, I sooooooo want to put that link on my facebook page and "like" it Wouldnt really be in the spirit of "trying not to engage" though would it?

vivee rofl @ the shaved balls thing... how vain is that!!!

My ex also is an ugly fat bastard with jowls and white pasty skin and spots all over himself. he has varicose (sp) veins and man boobs and a big huge gut hanging over his trousers... how could I resist him i wonder

I would second writing the list... I wrote one when I first left to read again in moments of possible weakness doesn't make happy reading that's for sure!!!

OMG hissy that link is hilarious!!!

Can't find it now but I had a really good quote on my status on facebook for ages...
Was something like
"bought my ex a chair, but the state won't let me plug it in!"