Support for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships

[ViVee]

I thought it would be a good idea to start a thread, a place to vent, offer support, advice.

I'm in an emotionally abusive relationship but I'm trying to find the tools to fight back - I've recently started counselling & the Lundy Bancroft book (Why Does He Do That? Inside The Minds of Angry and Controlling Men) (recommended by mumsnetters) has become my bible.

Anyone else feel the same?

SN that was beautifully put. Much more eloquent than my rant

Thanks you two. [weaksmile]

Self indulgence. grr.

I guess we look at our own life from bottom of it all, but we don't see how it looks on the outside.

as you say seriously, they may not get it. as unhelpful to us as that is, it's just them not getting it.

I just wouldn't leave someone hanging like that. I just couldn't.

I 'met' a girl on here once, lived in Egypt, in an even more isolated place than me. PG, hideously shit OH not abusive as such, but a real tosser, she hates him, has investments so can't just dump him totally. Her day to day was similar to mine, except she got to go out. she was allowed to learn the language.

I emailed her every day, many times a day. It tore me to pieces, writing to myself, literally, I'd read her emails and cry ALL DAY, for her and for me.

I knew I couldn't stop writing to her. For any reason. I didn't know her from Adam, but if I didn't write to her and keep her company, who the hell would? who else understood what she was living?

I am so close to leaving and yet it's so difficult- and this is the first place I have ever felt safe enough to talk about this stuff.

Just remembered another brick in the wall. A couple of years ago we were all taking dd to Uni. The first day there were various banks on the campus there offering to open students accounts. So we said OK. H said ooo - wouldn't it be better to open it in a proper High street branch?. I said no, this is fine.

Afterwards, he carried on.... In the foyer, in front of everyone, "why don't you listen to me?" I said look, it's all ok. Him: you should bloody listen to me...he starts to shake his finger at me. We walk out towards the car. Him ranting and grumbling..."I've told you before, you should listen to ME! " Waggling his finger in my face. All the dc's there...the whole public there.

Me saying, "look can we stop this now and can you stop waggling your finger at me". Him, more ranting, then, "right TAKE ME HOME". (we had a hire car as we had rented a flat near to the UNI). Then I'd had enough. I told him if he doesn't stop, if he continues to wave his finger at me ... he could go home, he could have the car keys, he can have the keys to the flat, I will get a taxi. This finally stopped him. (In fact he later grumbled that he didn't know why I made such a fuss, a waggling finger wasn't exactly violent).

My eldest dc, said later that she was so proud of me, for taking a stand...she said "did you see his face when you offered him the keys to the car and to the flat?" She was so pleased with me. I wasn't sure whether to be sad or proud.

Quick update. Picture - me doing college assignment, dd doing homework. The radio's on some mellow music. Bugface (this name may change in the near future), starts playing guitar. DD puts head in hands. I look at him - he doesn't budge. So I have to say to him. Was he being an idiot or was he goading us?

And the Benny Hill style passion keeps coming. I know it's going to end in a standoff - it's the one thing that really makes him angry.

Barbie, yep he sees you being mellow, content, busy, at peace, in tune.

He recognises those states but doesn't know how to attain them. So he tries to destroy them. And if anyone complains, he just says he's playing his guitar.

In the "old days" you (and I) would have been left wrong footed, wondering if it was us or him. Now we know better.

They are deeply, deeply selfish people, Hissy. As if everything you do and everything you are is just a picture on their wall, not a real human being at all. They want the picture to be nice because of how it affects them. I can't imagine having that little empathy even for someone I don't like very much, let alone my own child (although I am quite a self-centred person really, but not pathologically so).

herh;

I've just re-read your question and I realise that my answer just scrapes the surface. It might go some way to answering the question but I don't want to trivialise what's obviously very hurtful to you.

The thing I can't get my head round is why have I, for all these years, thought it's just the way men are? That it's not that important - he just a bit of an oaf, doesn't think - or I am being oversensitive or controlling and should chill out and let him play guitar while the radio is on etc...

I remember many many years ago calling his sister - I was in a state about something and asked her what it's all about with him - she said "that's just him - it's just the way he is". And I didn't believe her - I thought there must be more to it than that, he must have a special problem that I don't know about.

All I need to do is get through the next 2 weeks to finish my assignments. After that I have no idea how, but things will be very very different.

dementedma thanks for the beautiful poem. Made me weep good tears.

herhissy I understand your fury. But I can't explain why people stand by and watch you suffer - I have written about this before. I'm angry with everyone around me for not putting this in perspective. And it may be adding to the reason I fear leaving - because those people won't be there for me because they won't understand. I suppose you just have to focus on those that are honest with you and value what they have said. I have had a couple of people offer me 'any time' support and think about them a lot.

Hissy no-one knows your family's motives but them. But there are plenty of possibilities.

One of the more charitable ones is that they are in fact pretty clued up, and let you go on your own journey at your own pace. I have come to realise that you can't tell an abused woman (or anyone in any kind of denial): "Look, you're being abused: get out" until that person is ready to hear it.

I was incredibly angry at my couple's counsellor for seeing me and stbxh for 9 months when it was clear I was being abused. Why didn't he clue me in? Now I think that if he had, I would probably have resisted what he told me. I had to reach my own rock bottom.

Another reaction I have when reading your post is that there is a vast difference between them protecting themselves by not getting involved, and holding you responsible. Perhaps they were upset at seeing your relationship, and chose to keep their distance to protect themselves from any painful feelings. You may find that cowardly and selfish you have a right to but that behaviour on their part is their own choice for themselves taken for their own reasons, and is no reflection on you.

It sucks when we don't receive the help we want. I think we have a right to be bitter about it. But ultimately, isn't it better that we save ourselves? That we take the action to leave victimhood, rather than be saved? Slay the dragon ourselves?

Barbie tell me more about Benny Hill style passion. I've always thought sex with dp is like having sex with Benny Hill !!! He's always had a sort if oo er missus way about sex.

yes, tell us more about Benny Hill sex. might take my mind off how it is in our house
madam ovary don't worry about my drinking, i travel with a wonderful group of mners on another thread for alcoholics/problem drinkers. Don't know how to link to the latest thread but its on relationships and is the Brave Babes Battlebus - Journey to the summer of sobriety. These gals keep me right!

You are all right, it is them protecting themselves.

Maybe I'm the one that was wrong somehow to dive in to emailing that woman, even though it was excruciating? maybe I'm not protecting myself?

We have all written this week about our inability to put ourselves first, maybe this is the extreme tail end of that thought?

barbie, you have to do what's right. you have to be brave and you have to think that perhaps no-one will be there in RL. If it helps, you know we are all here.

You lot are all the help I have, and I'm still chugging along!

oh and guitar-man is an idiot. it's another way of disturbing the peace, just because he's not getting attention. vile.

Maybe I'm the one that was wrong somehow to dive in to emailing that woman, even though it was excruciating? maybe I'm not protecting myself?

I don't think you were wrong at all. It sounds like you were helping both you and her. Of course it's excruciating to delve into painful feelings!

From the way you described your interaction with that woman upthread, it sounds like you were engaging in something similar with her to what we are all doing here: saying to others in need what we ourselves are learning, which I think helps them as much as us (we still find it easier to help others than to help ourselves, but if we are the ones uttering such wise words to others, maybe they'll sink in to our own brains eventually.) Sharing painful experiences is just as healing as sharing the wise words, too. For all parties involved, I think.

I don't think anybody meant to imply they were right to protect themselves at the expense of their own daughter; just analysing why they did. I think there's enough evidence of your parents' attitude before and after your incarceration in That Hellhole to suggest they weren't so much "letting you find your own way" as "sticking their fingers in their ears and going lalala, isn't everything lovely, I can't hear you".

If your emailing of that woman in trouble helped her feel even a tiny bit better about herself, then it was the right thing to do. Heaven knows wallowing in your own misery, with no time for anyone else's, wouldn't have made you feel any better anyway. There's nothing wrong with putting yourself first (after the needs of any dependent children of course) - keeping yourself safe and healthy is a prerequisite for being able to help anyone else, as they taught us on the First Aid courses - but that doesn't mean you put yourself first, second and last. It is a denial of basic humanity to not give a shit about anyone else's problems. We are social creatures, pack animals if you like, we're designed to live in groups. Caring for and about each other is a good survival characteristic. Civilisation is built on co-operation. And a lot more social platitudes of that ilk. They sound cheesy but I believe 'em.

Er, not pack animals, that's about carrying stuff. But you know what I meant.

The thing I can't get my head round is why have I, for all these years, thought it's just the way men are? That it's not that important - he just a bit of an oaf, doesn't think - or I am being oversensitive or controlling and should chill out and let him play guitar while the radio is on etc...

Did you think you were being oversensitive or controlling because that's what he was telling you?

Did you accept it as 'just the way men are' because you were ready to shoulder blame and criticise yourself, rather than fight for your right to be sensitive, or to want certain things?

Please don't blame yourself any further by questioning why you have accepted this "for all these years". Just because you are accomodating does not mean that you were asking to be taken advantage of: only abusers choose to do so. A decent person would have treasured you for those qualities.

I remember many many years ago calling his sister - I was in a state about something and asked her what it's all about with him - she said "that's just him - it's just the way he is". And I didn't believe her - I thought there must be more to it than that, he must have a special problem that I don't know about.

If he does, it's up to him to figure it out and fix it, rather than for you to figure out for him. Unfortunately, what you want to be treated decently may not be a sufficient motivator for him.

You can't help him. You can help yourself, though, even though it may not come naturally to you. Because you deserve it.

Annie, pack animals is right... dogs/huskies in packs...

the carrying things animals in that phraseology would have been beasts of burden!

Emailing her made me face stuff I was in denial about, made me think about that place when I'd blocked it out, irrational fear of it etc. It did do me good actually, a lot of good. and I know how helpful she found it.

I was only doing what my BFF did for me in Alex, I was a life line. I know how much my BFF meant to me, it makes the difference between a god awful day and a good day, even when it's only a text or an email that has made you laugh!

thanks girls, I have to get off into town for a couple of jobs, back later!

hissy that's shit re your family. I wonder if, like rape people have a tendency to lay blame at the victim's door? Because that way the violent abusive behaviour becomes more understandable/acceptable. I mean why would one human being terrorise another just because? That doesn't make sense does it and that's too horrible to contemplate . Therefore the 'victim' must be to blame in some way, It makes more sense then.

I have stopped telling my mother about things he does. She has been involved in enough and dislikes him intensely anyway and wants me out. But I have often had the comments thats show she really really does not get what it's all about. Like "why did you put up with it? Why didn't you leave?" This comes from someone who was a magistrate! I tried to explain that if it were that simple there would not be any women in any kind of domestic abuse situations

barbie well done on calling him on that? How did he respond? It's easy to say why you thought that was the way all men were. The primary reason being he had normalised his behaviour. You didn't have anything to compare it with did you? I remember many times seeing the way other men behaved with their partners, little things and stbex didn't do that. Other men were much more caring of me during my pregnancies than he ever was. They showed me a tenderness and concern that he never did. It would make me sad and I couldn't understand why.
seriouslynow that sound like something stbex would do. He wants things done his way and will create a stink if they aren't. Well done on standing your ground. I know it's all too easy to back down just for the sake of peace.
Whenever we used to go round craft fairs he insisted that we walk round from the left to the right in a really anal fashion. I hated it.There were no chances to rush of in a random fashion. In the end I told him I was going round which ever way I liked.
If I tried to do things my way I was being difficult. He even got cross with me for not anting to watch the films he wanted to watch. Accused me of deliberately not watching them even though I liked them just because he\d suggested them. He has the same feelings about his family though.

There was a village fete on Saturday, there were kids' races, all very informal and silly. He became outraged that our kids who had won their races weren't getting the appropriate certificates. He said it was the curse of his family, never being given what was due to them. I suggested he shouldn't worry about it it was only a silly village fete. His immediate response was that he wasn't worried about it. Of course I wanted to reply "so what are you fucking ranting on about it endlessly then?" instead I turned away.
Are these men generally paranoid or is it just mine?

notsorted "A good father is one who respects the mother of his children and supports the mother in what she does to bring up their children and look after the family".
Yes I have heard that said on here before and it makes sense. However, I always question myself because I think he always accused me of not respecting or supporting hi. TBh I'm not sure I did in the way he wanted, but it would have been enough for a normal man iyswim? Since reading Lundy Bancroft last year I stopped respecting or supporting him in any way at all really.
dementedma that's awful how are you feeling today? Please don't let him do this ever again. Tell him if he ever tries to force himself on you again you will call the police. He clearly sees you as a possession.

Sorry to anyone I've missed out. I think this post's long enough as it is!

I've lost my voice today. The house is very quiet

Generally paranoid, I don't know, but mine certainly was (or pretended to be).

Monring all.

Ma - you have my number. And without wanting to cause you embarrassment, we've 'known' each other for a while now.

I know about your fight to stay day after day after day. Your fight to not just open the door and run as fast as you can away from him.

What he did to you, the sex was rape in my book. He knows that you don't want him. He knows that the relationship is over so the only way that he can keep a hold over you, as far as he's concerned, is to physically take you.

Every last part of your marriage is over to you, but to him you are his constant, he wife, the mother to his children. You are always there for him, like his carer, mother, wife, friend. To some degree, he fits you into all of those 'boxes' so for you to leave him would end his world as he knows and likes it.

For you to go would leave him empty and lost and rather than deal with that, rather than think about YOU and YOUR needs, he's doing what all abusers do in remaining selfish right until the very end. He's using emotional blackmail to make you feel guilty.

He is fooling himself that by having a physical 'relationship' (raping you) with you, will show you how much he loves you, cares for you, wants and needs you, adores you and how you make him feel. Pathetic isn't it?

Drinking is your way to numb the pain and the day to day, hour by hour shit that you are dealing with. I know that you have battled with your drinking for a while and to me, it's no surprise that you are drinking.

I know that when I was with my XP, I would drink far more than I ever had before to numb the pain, blur the edges for a while, get out of my own head.

Ma - you know where I am. You know that I really care about you. Don't stop posting, keep letting it out, again and again and again. That's what this thread is all about. Saying it out loud makes it real, raw and keeps you focused.

Keep going Ma. You are such a wonderful person and you deserve to be happy. xxxx

mouseface that's a lovely post
I too undertstand the drinking. i drink most nights. Not much. I never get drunk, just a couple of beers or a couple of small glasses of wine, but yes it numbs the pain and boredom. It's my down time.

buttons - you NEED down time. You need it to survive xx

Here's good one. Stbex works from home more's the pity. I emailed him today to let him know I was feeling pants and had lost my voice. No response of course, no sympathy. He just just come in the house and said we needed to talk. I pointed out I had lost me voice, talking might be tricky.
He wanted to talk about our bad financial situation and how we could cut back on stuff. I was doing my best to suggest stuff. Then he complained that he couldn't hear me. I pointed out(AGAIN) that I had lost my voice and could not speak any more loudly. Then he said I should move closer to him so that he could hear me. I was livid. I did of course move closer, which galled me for many reasons, I do not want to stand closer to him(yuk).
Then he got a phone call and said he would email me. and went off.
WTF???????

buttons - my DH works from home and I e-mail or facebook him sometimes but it's not about cutting back, tends to be 'what do you fancy for dinner' with replies like 'you'

Does your stbx know that he is? I'm still catching up with posters' situations , I'm not sure where everyone is up to.

He sounds like a right nob to me. I'd be getting a pen and paper and refusing to communicate with him due to your lst voice, you need to rest it.

Have you got anything for it? Covonia throat spray is good, as is honey and lemon tea. Sorry you're ill xx