Support for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships

[ViVee]

I thought it would be a good idea to start a thread, a place to vent, offer support, advice.

I'm in an emotionally abusive relationship but I'm trying to find the tools to fight back - I've recently started counselling & the Lundy Bancroft book (Why Does He Do That? Inside The Minds of Angry and Controlling Men) (recommended by mumsnetters) has become my bible.

Anyone else feel the same?

I think you handled that perfectly, Hissy. You are not trying to stop him speaking to his child, but you have a perfect right not to speak to him yourself. If you hang up every time he'll soon get the message (and try some other underhand ploy).

HerHissy - well done you! Using the DC to get to you is no surprise, if he's really good at it, you won't know at first..... as you distance yourself emotionally (and that takes soooooo long for some, I'm still not there 7 years on) you'll pick up more and more of what he's doing.

I still feel sick when I think about what my XP did to get to me through DD

Madame

oh arse, just switched phone on... Please phone me.... NOPE!

MO, thanks (I think!) I know (quite a bit of) mousey's story. brace yourself love.

right, small boy who just displayed slight blip in development due to flaming phone call wants to use the computer...

Only fair, been on this thing all day...

catch you all later!

Well done OMG! But you know, you shouldn't have to play sneaky mind games to get bought a new car. If he could afford it, as he clearly could, it should have been his pleasure to see you with a decent vehicle. I started to muck about with XH's mind for the last few months we were in the same house, practising manipulation, winding him up, and being flirty with guys - all the things he'd accused me of for years. Once I wasn't interested in keeping the relationship going I thought I might as well have some fun. It was interesting to see I could do those things, but not ultimately satisfying because it's not the kind of person I am.

Annie - oh I know I shouldn't have to but you know what I smile every time I get in that car. There's something satisfying about winning for once. He did try and spoil it by pointing out that while I might look ok in the car, no bloke would fancy me when I got out of it with my fat legs. However he shot himself in the foot with that one because even tho I wasn't fat (size 14) it gave me the push to lose a bit of weight. And now my legs most definately are not fat!!!

Annie - that's the stage I'm at now, except I cant be arsed with flirting, I just want to hang out with my friends.

For anyone who is interested, I found my old entries on a support forum from years back, when I was mired right in the abuse and wading through it. The first entry is jaw-dropping, detailing how I'd got to that point, how I reacted to events, how addicted I was to drama and a relationship at any cost. I was hell-bent on destructive behaviour and bad choices, and what is clear is that I did far more damage to myself than any man

Only good thing is it shows me how far I have come.
I wont post any links on here, but PM me if you want. Be warned though, it's very hard to read.

Hah, personal insults are the last refuge of the person who's lost an argument. As though your objective was to be fancied by passing males anyway, rather than getting from A to B in style and comfort. Funny how for a certain type of man (including my XH, and your STBXH) everything boils down to who you may be fancied by. Territorial thing probably.

Anyway, I don't mean you shouldn't have done it, I mean it's a shame you were in a situation where you had to. But by all means take satisfaction from your cleverness. He certainly deserved to be outsmarted.

Oh, the flirting was kind of passive-aggressive and needy and just wrong, really. I wasn't at all good at it, probably because I was doing it for the wrong reasons. In hindsight it was another sign that my mental health was at breaking point. I never want to be that kind of person again. (That doesn't mean I never want to flirt with guys again, in theory, some time in the future perhaps. But it will be because I am free and single and fancy them, not because I want either rescue or revenge. No rush though. I'm only 52.)

Hi - glad everyone survived the weekend! Welcome to all the newbies (hate that expression!) - hope this thread gives you the support you need.

hurryup I wouldn't leave a job I loved over this as it will become yesterdays news very quickly. Moreover I'm sure everyone realises that there is two sides to the story. Plus I suppose if you did leave you would have to work a notice period anyway.

So, remember I left last week? I was sick with nerves over the weekend but overall I'm feeling positive and more like my usual self.

It was my DD2 3rd birthday this weekend, and my H and my MIL appeared midmorning, unexpectedly. I had texted to say if they wanted to see her that would be ok, but we would not be having any discussions. He was on the way before I sent the text. I saw them pull up in the car, bolted upstairs for a shower (I had been sick the night before - stress I think) and H burst in on me in the shower - he had misheard my Mum tell him that I was having a shower - he thought she had said I wasn't there.

He said he had 3 things to say - he wants my eldest DS to stay with him on Thurs and Friday this week whilst I'm away to Take That, so he can take him to his school visit, and Graduation (nursery FFS!). He wants us all to go on our planned holiday in July together (PIL coming too so wouldn't be too bad if I didn't go) and he wanted me to drive back through for the marriage counselling today.

He took the eldest 2 DCs out for an icecream then left. So it wasn't too bad.

I haven't told him that it's over yet. I plan to but was letting the dust settle, whilst I get some legal advice.

I don't think it would be good for my eldest DS to stay on Thurs and Friday as last time I left my DS got very unsettled every time he stayed with him. I don't think he will care about the graduation, he hasn't asked about the nursery or his friends since being here. I think these graduations are more for the parents anyway!

What do you think?

Another concern I would appreciate your views on is that I have great difficulty speaking to my H. Generally and especially on issues where I know he's going to disagree with. I think I'm scared and intimidated by him. He doesn't accept this, and makes me feel really childish for using nonverbal communication (eg email).

Do I just man up and confront my fears or what?

I'd have thought given the state of your relationship, going on holiday together would be the last thing you wanted. But of course what you want doesn't matter, does it, because Big Man has spoken. Agree with you about the nursery "graduation", I don't think children make lifelong friendships at that age!

Also wonder where he gets off bursting in on you in the shower, even if he did think your mum had told him a porky about where you were. He could have waited till you had finished. Talk of riding a steamroller over your boundaries. Of course he doesn't accept that he's being intimidating, I bet he's the voice of sweet reason isn't he? And of course if nothing is in writing, nothing can be proved.

Time to stop worrying about what he wants, thinks, feels. Time to start setting and enforcing your own boundaries by whatever means work for you. You don't have to win the argument with him. You just have to win your freedom. So bustle and rustle up that legal advice!

Thanks Annie I concur - I don't want to go on holiday. Anyhow it's a villa holiday with PILs so it wouldn't be too disruptive if I don't go. They could still go if they want. Complicating factor is that H booked it on my credit card (his limit wasn't high enough)..........

My appointment for my solicitor is next Tuesday.

Mm, if it was on your credit card, could you cancel and request a refund, even if only a partial one, or would that be pointlessly petty? (Yes of course it would.)

You go girl, as they say.

Peep? We have discoved a Phrase of the Day.

What's in it FOR ME?

All of the above is about HIM, not you, not the best interests of your DC, HIM. HIS family.

You don't want to go on holiday? Don't go! It really IS that simple. If you don't want the hassle of the explanation, then don't tell them until departure day, switch phones OFF and that is that. His holiday is no longer YOUR concern.

If you think the DC would suffer if they stayed with him, then say no, you have listened to them and made the appropriate decision.

You don't have to do a thing you don't want to do anymore. Yes it really IS that simple!

Yep, I'd cancel the booking and tell PIL to rebook, on their credit cards.

I love that phrase. I'm going to use it as much as possible in my life from now on. It sums up the fact that I do nothing for me (well apart from counsellor trip once a week and I justify that by saying it's for my children's benefit too). But emotionally I let everybody get what they want until I'm used up and empty inside. Not any more ..

I've not asked about the bursting in on you in the shower... WTF?

If he thinks you are not there, why barge into a shower?

I hope you yelled your fucking head off at him! who on earth does he think he is.

Next time, make him wait outside your house, don't let him in. how dare he?

Peep, WRT to communications, if going non-verbal works for you for a while, do it.

Once you gain more strength (and you will) you will find it easier to say NO etc to him. It'll come. We have been/are all there too love!

Yes it's a great phrase
I also like "Today belongs to me".
Peep - I agree with all above.

I've been noticing weird 'moments' between us, and dds as well. Tonight, DD1 sticks up for me when he starts ranting (because somebody put some books on top of the laptop), with a beautiful reasoned argument but just as she's eloquently voicing her reasonable thoughts in the way that a young fresh mind can, he cuts across her in EXACTLY the way he does me.

It's a dark moment for me because I have to protect her but I know he's realised it's not just between the two of us any more and is prepared to put her in her place too.

But it's also weird because I am becoming more aware of what's abusive behaviour - the ignoring, for instance, so I don't rise to it and then sometimes, he tries to rise to me, showing glimmers of interest. Then I realise that it's all a pretence - he truly is not interested in what I have to say. And the dds pick up every slight nuance going on, and their behaviour is also changing. They are beginning to see that he is a bit of a sham Dad. It's all very sad for them, and him. And me.

I'm off to watch tv with DH. I am going to post my story soon.

MadameO - massive mwahs and hugs to you. You got out, you got out, you got out. Say it over and over every time that you wobble.

You are a wonderful lady who deserves nothing but love and respect. xx

Tooscared - I could have written that last post of yours myself. I TOTALLT understand what you are saying. haven't got any answers though

Barbie, it cuts you like a knife, the realisation that they will treat their kids like that. You are getting there though. Hang on to these revelations, these lightbulb moments are permanent and show you are moving on.

Emotional Abuse is like a poisonous fog - it descends slowly, clouding your landscape and limiting your horizon so that that it completely disorientates you. Once you realise what's happened, it takes a long, long time to clear.

Mouseface Thank you. I still went on to have a baby with him tho! (I still loved him then, still thought there was a future as a family even after all that ) And he's still around, but very much at arm's length. I will never live with him again. And that is a definite.

Hope your having some good telly-time with your DH. I look forward to hearing your story.

MadameOvary, thank. It's nice to hear that in some ways my reaction is quite normal.

Sometime ago, I swore to myself that I would not do anything out of anger but that any decision would be taken after thinking rationally about it. I can't help but think about a friend of mine, now well in her 50s. She divorced when her dcs were very little, brought them up on her own even though the dad has always been around. She says that she realized years down the line that she was out of order at the time and that divorce wasn't the right choice (She says herself that at the time she was a bit crazy and not behaving 'right'). I do not want to be in the same position and regret my choices.

Sometimes I wish I would have been more bold and called it a day a few months ago instead of accepting to have another go at it.
The issue for me is that this whole set up is making me a person that I don't like. So something needs to change. Me, him, us, our relationship??
Then there are the dcs. H isn't a good dad. He is very good at doing with them what he was doing with me ie putting the down, being generally negative, not talking etc...

BTW, can someone tells me what happens with the dcs after you are separated? H isn't a good dad now. I am not expecting him to become one (even though I suspect that if would be better at it if he wasn't seeing them as often). Now I know what is hapening. I can, in some ways, protect them or redress the balance. If we are not together, what will happen then?
Any experience?

barbie I've had the same experience as you. The dcs, esp dc1, is acutely aware of what is going on and how his dad is with him.

It's a sad thing to see/hear :(

Tooscared What is the story with your friend? Was DV/EA an issue?

As for change, I am of the opinion that it can only be you that changes. An abusive man isn't capable of it. All they want is the status quo. They might appear to modify their behaviour for a bit to keep you quiet, but their core beliefs and values do not change, and since this is what underpins their whole behaviour pattern, you are wasting your time trying to get through to them. (ref Lundy Bancroft)

If I tell you that most men on abuser programmes - which intricately and skillfully try to tackle and address these values - have difficulty with or refuse to change, you might get a sense of what you're up against. My X is such a person.

I wouldn't feel confident giving advice re DC's, except to say that the recieved wisdom seems to be that they are ALWAYS better off out of the toxic atmosphere. If your X is anything like mine, he will make a lot of noise but do every little because the truth he doesn't have the will or energy to deal with a small child for long periods of time. Also, crucially, the fear that I will be off with some other bloke as soon as I get some free time also stops him. Which is fine.

As omg and others have demonstrated, it can be very easy to manipulate them into doing what we want. The downside is that we have to stoop to their level, which isn't pleasant.