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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Support for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships

1000 replies

ViVee · 20/05/2011 21:49

I thought it would be a good idea to start a thread, a place to vent, offer support, advice.

I'm in an emotionally abusive relationship but I'm trying to find the tools to fight back - I've recently started counselling & the Lundy Bancroft book (Why Does He Do That? Inside The Minds of Angry and Controlling Men) (recommended by mumsnetters) has become my bible.

Anyone else feel the same?

OP posts:
Longtermworried · 18/06/2011 12:34

Hi there,

I am an oddity on this thread as I am a father rather than a mother. However, I don't know of any places where men discuss matters such as this, so I hope no one will mind me chipping in.

I don't know whether my relationship counts as emotionally abusive. However, my relationship with my DW has been rocky to varying degrees over the last four years. My DW quite often loses her temper at me, shouts at me in front of the children, and accuses me of stupidity, idiocy, selfishness and so on. This probably happens about twice a week although there have been occasions when it has been more frequent.

My instinct is to try and withdraw when this happens. I hate arguments. However, this only makes my DW crosser: if I ask her if we can stop now and talk later when we've both calmed down, she says that I'm "running away" and that I must deal with this now (this tends to mean listening to her). The arguments tend to flare up over small things. The last one was when I said I didn't have time to take some kitchen waste to the compost bin because I was rushing to leave for work.

For much of 2010 we were in counselling. The counsellor taught us ways of talking without arguing, ie, in a very controlled way and with very strict rules. This has worked up to a point, but my DW (in my opinion) finds it very hard to accept that my viewpoint is reasonable when we do have a disagreement.

My dw is not at all manipulative, and sometimes she is lovely. She can sometimes just be very, very pushy.

Her father was a difficult man when she was young, and family arguments were a feature of her upbringing.

At times it has got so awful that I have taken a knife to my arms.

The first time I did this, I managed to keep the marks hidden for a week. Then I admitted what I'd done. My dw insisted that next time I was tempted to do this, I was to talk to her. I said that I was only likely to do this in times of absolute stress, and talking to her was likely to be the very last thing I wanted to do. Nevertheless, she said that I must.

I am currently hiding my arms again.

I believe my dw is a good woman, so for her sake and for the sake of the children I want to make the marriage work. However, at times I don't feel that she really sees what she is doing to me.

If anyone could recommend some useful reading for me, I'd be very grateful, because things have got to the point where I have to find some solution by myself.

bigbuttons · 18/06/2011 12:45

longtermworried of course you are welcome here. Your situation sounds awful, completely untenable. If being with someone makes you that unhappy, so unhappy that you are self harming then you must get out, you must. You must get out for you and for your children.
No one should be shouted at like that. Most of the literature is about abusive men of course
shrink4men.wordpress.com/2009/07/27/how-emotionally-abusive-women-control-you-the-fear-of-loss-and-the-need-for-approval/ this web looks interesting and has some further reading ideas HTH

Misspixietrix · 18/06/2011 13:00

Peeptoes well done! Longtermworried yes I would say you are and think you'll find the links given above (and the advice here) very useful. Can I ask you ladies what the 'notice of removal' is re divorce? My x was staying at his friends but is insisting on coming home as his friend is off to germany for a week on business. I've had everything this morning i'm sorry i love you i'm going to change, you know the drill! All this after i said yes you say you've missed the kids but you haven't mentioned me once!

hurryup · 18/06/2011 15:06

Peeptoes - well done, you've taken a massive leap forward, be gentle on yourself. Don't feel guilty, if you think you've done the right thing you undoubtedly have.

I've started counselling last week and have citalopram
as well. The biggest problem is ds2 who has been physically and verbally abusive most days for last 6 weeks or so. Today culminated in 4 hours of raging. 2 lovely dr's came to see him and will see him again tomorrow if necessary. He's got Camhs assessment on Wednesday so hopefully will get sorted. So work stress, ds2 stress, H stress and 'normal' life with 5 children that have witnessed H and now Ds2 being abusive to me. Not sad all the time, now have got to stage where I suddenly realise I haven't been anxious or down for last hour or so.

Long term - welcome, I was wondering if there were any fathers lurking wanting to join!!

crispyseaweed · 18/06/2011 15:14

Longtermworried ,,, I used to feel like that, wanting to self harm when my partner upset me so much and treated me badly...its cos you feel you deserve it and are worth nothing more...

but you are .......and sound like you are in a truly abusive relationship where she is taking advantage of your very good nature.
IMHO you MUST stick up for yourself an ddont let her walk all over you.
Dont allow her to bully,browbeat, and dominate you , by using manipulative words and behaviour.

Your DW must learn that you have an opinion and that you are entitled to that opinion whether she likes/ agrees it or not.
You cannot tolerate that kind of relationship simply for the sake of the kids. If you are not happy, and DW is arguing with you a lot then the kids will feel insecure and not happy.
DW has not right to insult you and call you names, this is not acceptable.
I have been in 2-3 abusive relationships so have learnt from experience , that:
One deserves better, and You have the right to be treated with respect .
Stay strong and wishing you all the best..........You deserve it.

MadameOvary · 18/06/2011 18:59

hurryup - a wee light at the end of the tunnel? Am smiling reading about that upturn. Its the first of many! Grin

longtermworried welcome to the thread. Having gone down the self-harm route myself, I can empathise a bit. It is a dangerous sign that you are internalising the abuse and trying to express the pain in a tangible way as you dont feel listened to.

For reading I would recommend Patricia Evans "Controlling People". You have been taking a good and patient stance so far, but at the expense of your mental health, so it is important that you draw some strength from a reliable source.

barbiegrows · 19/06/2011 00:03

longtermworried try Beverly Engel - The Emotionally Abusive Relationship. Try to get her to read it. It will teach you to look at your own history and why you have ended up in this relationship - either as abuser or victim. It addresses that abusers can sometimes make victims abusive too.

seriouslynow · 19/06/2011 00:23

Longtermworried, sounds awful and the fact that you are self-harming is proof of the pain that you're feeling and unable to resolve.

Another good book is Patricia Evans "the Verbally Abusive Relationship - how to recognise it & how to respond". Get it on Amazon. Don't go to couples counselling but try to get some on your own.

hurry, I hope you can resolve ds2 probs. How old is he or have I missed that?

H sat down to lunch and said not one word from start to finish. I have no idea if he's sulking, worried, tired, or just bored. And I literally don't care. In the old days I would have tried to "manage" the situation - be light and breezy and draw him into the conversation. Now I've become tougher and meaner and maybe bitter too. Two of the dc's were home so we chatted, but H just sat there and ate. Isn't that just sick and disfunctional?

I just remembered something else from years ago - he announced I must put up some curtain on the glass doors of the sitting room when my mum was staying - so that he could sit in there and watch tv without being visible. I remember feeling great stress trying to get it done in time. Whatever was wrong with me then? Before marriage I was confident, well-travelled, financially independent, why did I hook up with him? And why did I let him walk all over me? And - why the feck didn't I leave 10 years ago?

hurryup · 19/06/2011 06:43

morning, please can you give me some advice about work? My job is not one I could get again, there are few and far between, it's stressful and hard work for little pay but emotionally very very rewarding. In fact, it is my perfect job. However, last night my friend suggested I looked in to benefits which I've always been against. Financially I'd be no worse off. But, whilst I don't want to work with rebou d twat or even see him ever again, would I be letting him chase me from a job I love? He'd have won then and so would everyone else that choose to believe him? What should I do? oh and after my bosses kind offer for time off, I asked him if I could return some cases - yes, 1 that is for September!! So no support from him when it came to it.Angry

HerHissyness · 19/06/2011 09:53

If you love this job, if it's irreplaceable, either try to do something totally different (very hard I know) or fight for it.

You have been through so much lately, I think the best you do is to just get some normality and stability into your life. If you leave that nob will have somehow taken this job from you.

I'd defer all big decisions for, say, at least 3m. Just get your head down and focus on your job, and your family. You can do this, you know it, you need to prove it to yourself, running and hiding from this creep and going onto benefits might just be the defeat of you.

We are half way through 2011, spend the next 6m taking your life back, your happiness back, your family back.

HerHissyness · 19/06/2011 09:55

seriouslynow, it's OK, we all feel like that, you are right and he is an idiot. There is nothing more you can do. please forgive yourself, this is not your fault.

My X was a miserable bugger like that, the more people were happy around him, the more miserable he was. Except if he had an audience..... Hmm

cathkidstonbag · 19/06/2011 10:05

Is it normal for them to twist things??? When I tried to talk to DH on Fri evening about the whole shouty thing he said there was no point discussing things with me anymore as apparently I have anger issues and can't discuss things calmly? WTF??? Yesterday passed by peacefully enough, but today he made a major fuck up with something in the house and I did get exasperated because as usual I have to clear it up, then he said I was always being unfair to him and didn't care enough. When I said I merely now treat him as I am treated he stomped off in a huff. Oh and I haven't made enough of an effort for fathers day when he knows FD upsets me becos i haven't got a dad anymore!!! Oh and he's lost my keys (he was the last one to have them) but how is he supposed to know where and they aren't HIS keys to find!!!
It's the little things, drip, drip, drip :(

HerHissyness · 19/06/2011 10:24

I'm sorry omg, I shouldn't laugh, but when I saw the first line on Threads I'm On, I have to confess to a

yes, it's 'normal for them' to twist things.

This is the guy that got you out of the shower at 6am by screaming and shouting like a loon, and YOU have the anger issues? Shock [twat] (I'll keep using this until MN make me a TWAT emoticon!)

Seriously, you have to start telling him his behaviour is unacceptable and he has to go. that you will not be blamed for his abysmal behaviour anymore, will not tolerate shouting etc.

Tell him that it's opportune that he loses your keys now, so he can give his keys to you right now and then he can call the locksmith. Tell him that he will only get a set of his own keys if he stops terrorising you and your family Grin Oh and if he back chats you, you start stuffing his stuff into black plastic bags. I did this to X and it really upset him. Got my point across perfectly though.

Sounds like he hasn't made enough effort as a Father, let alone you and your acknowledgement of FD. What a selfish, insensitive nasty little man.

HerHissyness · 19/06/2011 10:32

You need to be braver omg, you need to go back and say, OK I tried to discuss this with you on Friday, but you refused to face it responsibily, so let me explain something to you in the hope that you are clever enough to get it. "When someone rants and raves in my home before 6am, I WILL have something to say. When I can't even have a bloody shower in peace, I WILL speak up."

In a cool, calm voice, low and full of intent, you say. "That is the last time anything like that happens in my home, got it? You have no flaming idea of what my anger is like, and quite frankly, I'm running out of patience with your terrorism of my home life. It stops today. The only one here raving and ranting is YOU. get it sorted, or get going."

don't try and discuss things with him, he has no interest in resolving any of this. TELL HIM HOW IT'S GOING TO BE! If you ask him to stop shouting, he won't. he feels entitled to rule you all by screaming.

He doesn't have that right. You need to TELL him he doesn't have that right, he never did, and never will do.

I had this with shithead demanding I get up at 2am for him to make a point. he did it twice, and even though the first time I was literally terrified of him, I still told him right off, and he didn't do it again until last year.

This last time, I actually said, that I wouldn't talk about what he did, as I didn't trust what would come out of my mouth. I got my point over perfectly then, without saying a thing.

When you do this, it makes you feel OOOOHHHH so much better, so much more strong, powerful and equal. Try it. It has to be done, one way or another.

Take a deep breath omg, and go for it. what's the worst that could happen? he shouts? he's done that already, but this time you can call the police.

Take back that upper hand. it's yours. all yours!

cathkidstonbag · 19/06/2011 10:38

phew that's ok then! I couldn't believe he said I had anger issues! Apparently they've been getting worse and the last week I've been angry all the time :S He couldn't believe how cross I got with him over the shower issue!
It's my car keys I want! I have spares but I want my set with the auto key on. How bloody hard can it be to remember where he's put them. He is always losing things, it drives me crazy.
He's just come in and done this big sighing thing because I won't rearrange my day to spend more time with him. Why would I do that? But now I'm the bad person because I'm making him unhappy. Especially today I'm told.

DooinMeCleanin · 19/06/2011 13:00

Omg Dh twists things too. If I pull him on his behaviour I often get a list of things I have done wrong. I am not a 'normal' mother or partner. I need help.

He does the keys thing too Shock, if he loses anything of course I or the children have moved them, his highness couldn't possibly do something so human as to misplace something. Oh, yes and if I tidied up more often the house wouldn't be such a mess and he would be able to find things. He has lost the keys to the boiler cuboard atm, of course he hasn't put them somewhere safe and forgotten where it is, no the dc have moved them. He can find fault in everyone but himself.

We also have a mythical 'everyone' in our family. 'Everyone' knows my weight issues and confidence issues have nothing to do with him. When he is trying to insult a new outfit I might have bought 'everyone' knows I buy clothes that are too small for me. If we argue about the state of the house 'everyone' knows that I have always been lazy and never clean up, erm, you are an adult too and you live here too. 'Everyone' knows I don't care for my pets properly, this one particularly stings because I live for my dogs, the are the only part of 'me' I have left. I've stopped going out because the abuse I get at the begining of the night makes it not worth it. Heaven forbid I go out feeling good about myself. I have hardly any friends left because they have all gotten bored of me turning down nights out/coffee meets etc.

I have asked around what few friends I have left if any of them have ever said any of the things this 'everyone' says about me all the time and they all deny it. My youngest sister is often cited as being part of 'everyone', luckily I know her well enough to know if she had something to say, she would say it to me. He feels very threatened by my sister I think as no matter how hard he tries to push her away, she'd never leave me.

It's almost laughable how similar they all are, isn't it? I've flicked through the thread a little bit and I see so much of him on here.

I talked to him again last night when something was brought up about the holiday and clothes and explained that I still felt very hurt by what he said. A 'normal' man would apologise at this point, I know that now. Not H though. Not only am I fat, but I am also a drug addict and a danger to my children, I spend all his money on diet products and exercise things and I know I'll never use them because I can't be bothered. It's nowt to do with you constantly putting me down then?

bigbuttons · 19/06/2011 13:41

Ah yes the twisting of things and or completely denial that they have done anything.
I now calmly call him on stuff I wouldn't have dared to mention a while back. Like today, he ALWEYS leaves things to the very last minute and is often late picking up the dc's, even if just by a few minutes, I hate being late. So I said to him yesterday that I would take ds 1 to his scout hike . Stbex asked why as he always did it.( not true) I saidIi was doing it because he had told me he couldn't get up that early as it would make him tired for the rest of the day (true). That was denied of course.
Today I asked him mot be late picking ds1 up. He asked why again and I said because you are often late. Again denied. I don't care. I've made my point.

He also has no empathy. I wanted to go shopping today to get a very special
cousin a birthday present. He was annoyed I was going out to do this. He said with great sneering that this must be some special cousin then to take time out from your children etc. I calmly said that yes she was very special like a sister. And no I wasn't gong to go to asda and buy any old tat. I wanted to go to an exclusive jewellers and didn't want 6 marauding kids knocking over the displays and giving me stress.
He could never understand that because he has never ever had that kind of relationship with or feelings towards anyone in his whole life.

Since posting here I find that I am noticing his little negations of my feelings more and more. It's very empowering because when he starts I leave the room and tell him he is wrong.

barbiegrows · 19/06/2011 13:49

Hi doinmecleanin
Yes it is remarkable how similar they all are. Everything's someone else's fault. But why have I bought the lie all these years that actually that's just 'men'? Is it? Are we all a bit like that? Is it just a bad mood? Is it just the way he was brought up? If something goes wrong in our house it is NEVER his fault. He lives in total chaos and every time I try to bring a sense of order into the house (papers, tools, clothes), he then RE organises it all again, by shifting everything around into an incoherent new 'system', that really is not a system at all, just him shifting stuff from one place to the next.

It's one of my main bugbears at home - he is constantly disorganising things - particularly putting stuff in front of cupboards so that I can't get into them easily. Now that sounds like a small thing but it means that you end up with stuff piled ontop of the stuff in front of the cupboard.

I'm really whingeing now. But after 25 years I have finally seen the light and I have my own space for my own stuff and hope he doesn't come near it. Interestingly I could tell you where every last kitchen gadget or paper plate is - there is a place for everything. Fortunately he doesn't touch the kitchen and so it is in order. But there is a relentless kind of disturbance and disruption that goes on.

Maybe that's him trying to draw me in - it obviously disempowers me if I need to ask him where things are, or me 'failing' with things because I haven't got the right paperwork, or equipment.

On a lighter note, I am truly learning the greatness of DISENGAGEMENT. Boy it works wonders. All of a sudden, a potentially explosive situation and a man getting wilder and wilder, suddenly fizzles out with a disappointed OH, very grumpy and very on his own, and content mother and happy children. It's how my mother was for years - it's what she has always told me I should do. I know she is right, but I can't go on for another 25 years like she did.

Where it will lead to is quite another thing. He tried to force me into a father's day hug today - 'like you mean it' that was very creepy that last bit. If he couldn't hug me for some reason I would be worried and concerned about him. He isn't with me, just wants me to pretend to him I'm fine.

barbiegrows · 19/06/2011 13:53

Tried to instigate some Father's Day goodwill today. Got dcs to make cards, offered breakfast, suggested a day out. He did some DIY. I told him it's up to him, it's between him and the kids to decide what to do. I said 'you're not my father' (in a nice way). But now I just think it's his loss if he never gets to do anything with DCs.

NotSuchASmugMarriedNow · 19/06/2011 15:16

"But there is a relentless kind of disturbance and disruption that goes on."

Barbiegrows that is such an enlightened comment. I also used to find that when my ex was here his very presence caused disruption and chaos without him actually doing hardly anything at all. I wonder why that is?

Perhaps they are just destructive and disruptive by nature, perhaps thats part of being abusive.

HerHissyness · 19/06/2011 15:32

Oh barbie the hugs thing.... mine was like that, asking for hugs when I'd been clearly explicit that he was never ever to touch me again... just cos HE had a bit of a cold. How could I be so heartless etc?

Easy, the same heartless as you were when you tried to get my friends H to demand she sever our friendship by telling him a pack of lies...

It's all about their feelings and the external perception, not about you.

HerHissyness · 19/06/2011 15:33

Where is Vivee? come back and say hello will you love?

Misspixietrix · 19/06/2011 15:49

Barbiegrows, completely agree! I've been kind enough to let him come round the house yesterday as it was raining so i could,'t meet him on the park with the dc's as planned but my goodness did they misbehave ever since! I always got the 'trust me if any other man was married to you it wouldn't have lasted THIS Long!' and yes you do start to question it and think maybe there is some truth to it. I've also had 'friends' of his telling him i need to be told to 'sort myself out because i'm a total mess'

HerHissyness · 19/06/2011 15:57

MissPixie - his friends have told HIM that YOU need to sort yourself out and he has conveyed that message huh? Hmm yeah, right, been there, done that too.

You say, "let them live with you then!"....

The no-one else would put up with you? classic nobber territory. The fact that it's lasted as long as it has is down to YOU putting everyone else first.

Why are the DC playing up? because of the wrench of having him in the house and then leave it? give it time, don't rise to it. it could be acting out.

Misspixietrix · 19/06/2011 16:39

yes acting up terribly and then i get 'see don't you see how much they miss me?!?'......really because it may have something to do with the fact peace reigned here for the first time in years and you just trampled all over it.......again! i love his (imaginary) friends that come out with half the stuff he says about me and the dc's, guess it's so he can justify not sounding too much of a nob! too late! lol i'm feeling a bit down today tbh, because he's just not getting it & i feel hard with it being FD.

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