Support for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships

[ViVee]

I thought it would be a good idea to start a thread, a place to vent, offer support, advice.

I'm in an emotionally abusive relationship but I'm trying to find the tools to fight back - I've recently started counselling & the Lundy Bancroft book (Why Does He Do That? Inside The Minds of Angry and Controlling Men) (recommended by mumsnetters) has become my bible.

Anyone else feel the same?

Right found a link to a website called rights of women, thru my local dv service.

There are a load of guides to the law which you can read

www.rightsofwomen.org.uk/legal.php

There is info about rape, physical violence etc but also dealing with kids, money, divorce etc.

There is info in there about housing and divorce, separation and loads more.

I think it must be worth a look and then speaking to a solicitor for your free half hour of advice or to Citizens advice or even to domestic abuse service for some pointers before making a decision.

Hi mole1
I will keep a bag packed, that's the second time this week that I've been all set to go and not gone. Not sure how long for but every time I go to my safe place I don't want to return.

My MIL knows the situation but she's sure her son is a "changed man". I know my H phones her and summons her.

My H scoffed at my allegations of his abuse, claiming that he was drunk, or had no memory or that I'd made it all up. I too kept a diary of events and a calendar of how much alcohol was drunk, so glad I did. My H accused me of re-reading them to remind myself of the bad times, and to ruminate about them. OK so I did but only because I don't want to just allow it to become "water under the bridge" - he almost destroyed me, and I'm fighting back, now that I know that what he did was wrong, and it wasn't just me going mad.

stbex has read stuff on EA and claims that he is being abused by me. .
I have not spoken one word to him today. After last night's debacle he makes feel physically sick.
I bloody love anti depressants.
I'll read through that stuff humpty. Stbex claims he is hurrying along the sale of the house, that he wants rid etc etc, but NOTHING AT ALL is happening.

breakfree we're all here when he turns again, he will and we know what it's like. xx

BB, did I not say this before on this thread, maybe elsewhere, but they ALL say that. X said it to me.

I'll also agree with BreakFree with the sensing a new power over them. You DO have that power, keep it! Let it GROW! Hold onto that power, it's THAT very power that will lead you through this. I felt it, I hung onto it... kept going, kept focussed and >poof!< He's gone!

All of you can do the same. I have faith in each and every one of you, and I can't wait for the next one to walk to freedom!

Please don't be scared of making the leap, be careful of course, if there is any risk to your life, seize the chance quietly and just go, get as much RL support to help as you can, but you know you can do this. I know you can do this!

well said herhissy.

bigbuttons I'm sorry to be blunt, but hissy is right. They all say that they are the victim and we are the perpurtrator... It's not worth wasting your time even considereing that as an option.

I know it's easy for me to say who is outof the situation but I really think that you have to look long term and get rid of these bastards. I think that as long as your name is on the deeds of the house, you can still go and keep your entitilement to your share. Some of these bastards will keep you there for years to come if you don't take some action.

The law will work for you... I am divorcing my H. He refuses to sign and return the papers to the court so on Friday I applied for the court bailiff to serve him the divorce papers, which means that he doesn't need to sign them at all now. Once the bailiff confirms he has the papers, that's exH's part done.

I spoke to my solicitor about money and assets. I explained that we have no assets, only huge debts, which are all in my name (stupid, stupid) as well as about £4000 which my parents have paid to clear our debts where we were living. My solicitor says that we will persue him for this money. I was delighted, I thought that if it's a joint debt either party is liable for paying all of it, but apparently we can fight it so that I only have to pay half.

This whole situaiton is totally crap and I am the one who has been left on incomme support with 3 kids in a rented house with huge debts (more than £20,000) in my name alone as well as trying to pay back my parents for everything they have helped me with and pay for extras for my kids like gym lessons and swimming lessons BUT it was worth every second, even if I am paying this off till I'm 90 it's still better than being with him. I realise that I won''t get a penny out of him, he's already quit his job and CSA have nothing on him, but still better to have nothing from him and be rid of him!!

Have faith ladies who are still in there, it will come right in the end, you need to be brave and remember to stay safe but it will defintately be worth it in the end

As I understand it, it's to do with what the debts were for whether you're jointly or individually liable. Like, if the debt was incurred paying for things for the household, which you're both assumed to have the benefit of, it is regarded as a debt of the marriage even if it's only in one name. But if say you bought yourself a luxury item without his knowledge or agreement it would be your debt, sort of thing. Not always easy to prove of course, but when XH tried the line that the debts were mine he was disappointed. Only the loan for the car I bought myself shortly before the divorce was finalised was mine, which I never disputed because I wanted it to be mine, debt and all. (Before you say oi, what about you paying the deposit out of the marital whatsit, he got to keep the other five cars we owned at the time. 'Orrible rust heaps, but he likes 'orrible rust heaps. It all worked out fairly. He also got all the household contents, half the net proceeds from the house and 40% of my pension. He was not hard done by.)

poor u but life can be so much rewarding.dont get other peoplle drag u down.

well said feeling

Bigbuttons - that ALWAYS happens when they read up on EA - it becomes another stick to beat you with. Believe me, they ALL do it. Let's face it, the poor lambs are incapable of accepting responsibility so it HAS to be our fault otherwise they might implode (hey we can but wish)

Breakfree - re the "niceness phase" I actually witnessed the end of one of his today - asked why, if I could trust him to go out socialising with the opposite sex, why he couldn't trust me to do the same.

His response? "Because you'd be sleeping with them"

Ridiculous isn't it? When I said it was perfectly possible to have friends of the opposite sex he said:
"No it isn't, haven't you seen "When Harry Met Sally"

Apparently his lack of trust is because I lied to him - when we weren't together. Too boring to go into, as it's nothing to do with that. It's not about trust but control.

He didn't stay too much longer after that - started dragging up other heinous things I had done and when that wasn't enough to wind me up he announced he was going.
The minute the door closed behind him DD did something to make me laugh - loudly. I really hope he heard.

The one thing I realised is that the mean/sweet cycle is ALWAYS ongoing, ALWAYS. It's natural to drop our guard when the good stuff is on offer, but it never lasts.

I might not be contributing much but i am following this thread.

I thought I'd share this with you

The Difference between Real Love and a Control connection.

Real Love
You feel heard, and he/she attempts to, or is open to understand you.

Control connection
You don?t feel heard or understood no matter how hard you try to explain yourself.

Real love
You feel a warmth and gentleness of spirit between you.

Control connection
Your partner seems against you.

Real love
You feel your partner is on your side, or at least recognises your truth as your truth, even if he doesn?t fully understand or agree with it.

Control connection
You feel your partner is trying to erase, ignore, belittle or negate you at times, while at other times acts in loving ways.

Real love
There is always an energetic space that your partner creates for you and your expression of yourself (and vice versa).

Control connection
Your partner attacks you or ignores you unexpectedly.

Real love
Your partner delights in, or at least can smile at your idiosyncrasies.

Control connection
Your partner complains or has a dig at you for your idiosyncrasies.

Real love
Your partner regularly expresses genuine love and appreciation for you in his/her life.

Control connection
Your partner mostly takes you for granted and is angry when you show signs of separateness.

^^ NotSuch, that's a great post, and I hope it rings a few bells for those who need them.
Most of the time (IMO) sex is nothing but a means to sustain the Control Connection and perpetuate/create a (false) sense of intimacy.

(The last line in your post is particularly pertinent to me right now)

thank you,

I got it from another website I was just looking at.

"Sanctuary for the Abused" is a great website too.

It's a comfort to know that's true of them all MO. Just now he told me that for all our relationship I'd got him wrong, intrinsically wrong. he didn't know what i thought he was but whatever it was he wasn't or something...... I said I'd seen all i wanted to see.
he said if knowing hmm was on a scale of 1-10 then i hadn't even got past one. I said I didn't want to thank you, I'd seen enough.

All this stared because I was complaining about the uselessness of our dishwasher. Having just cooked a sunday lunch the ruddy dishwasher won't fit in dinner plates-go figure-. A dishwasher that won't fit in dinner plates.
He said " I don't know why you're trying to do that, you'll drive yourself mad" ( I love that phrase, the mad one)
"No I won't" I replied
"what? What's wrong with you?I'm only trying you help"
"no you're not" Cue the "you don't understand me" drivel.
It's funny

That list is interesting. Reading it i could see though that STBEX worked very hard at pretending he was doing all of the loving bit.

welcome jujubeans sorry you find yourself here though. It took me quite a few months from first hearing about EA to be able to accept and understand that I was in an EA relationship, I had doubts for a long while so I can understand a lot of your questions. You MUST MUST MUST read the book "Why does he do that?" by Lundy Bancroft.

I am also going to offer different advice from the other posters and says I think its best that for now you DONT discuss separation - but only because I think its important that you arm yourself with the Lundy knowledge first before you talk to your H. Your instinct that things could go badly is right, you need to be prepared for a rocky end and for H's behavoiur to escalate - or for him to play nice guy for a while and fool you into thinking there is real change. If you read the book you will know what to expect, and how to judge his behavoiur accurately. However if you feel like your H may become violent at any time, obviously leaving asap is best.

Hello also peeptoes sorry havent read your thread yet, but welcome too.

bigbuttons sounds like your H has detected that you are pulling away from him and is escalating the abuse to see if he can bring you back in line. This is more proof that he is an abuser who is responsible for your unhappiness. Stay strong, you will find a way through this.

BreakFree how about reading the chapter again in Lundy that talks about "how to tell if they have really changed?" Perhaps you will see the nice guy facade for what it is a little more clearly after comparing it to genuine niceness, and this might make you feel stronger again?

I had a great day yesterday throwing a party for three year old DS - we had a bouncy castle and face painter - there were 12 kids and 20 or so adults and I catered and organised everything even though I am 4 and half months pregnant!! for those of you who may remember H and all his family decided to boycot the party - THIER LOSS! we had a great time!

solidarity hug for everyone on the thread. xx

I second that jujubeans Lundy Bancroft book is a MUST it really is.

BigButtons always happy to help
I am smirking now at some of the things they say.
My favourite is "You just don't get it" when you make a pertinent point that they dont have answer for. And yes "You don't understand" is the close relation that is only marginally less patronising.

Lundy Bancroft should be given a sainthood for all the lightbulbs he's switched on in the heads of the abused. His book "Why Does he Do That" is written in such a way that it manages to penetrate the fog of confusion, misery and self-doubt and gets you thinking for the first time that it's NOT you.

I tell you what good support does, and books like Lundy's - it gives you that vital sense of perspective that enables you to not only stand back and see your sitution with a little more clarity, but puts you back on the road to finding yourself and the personality and self-esteem that got bashed into submission in the EA relationship.

And once that starts coming back, you're on your way! Maybe not on the home stretch quite yet, but miles from the confused, lost, downtrodden soul you were before you began to seek help.

All IMHO of course!

XH used to say "Don't be silly" when he didn't have an answer.

Breakfree - good to hear about party outcome! You sound as though you've completely disentangled yourself from your inlaws nasty web.

Notsuch - brilliant post. Completely describes my relationship - and also my false hopes that each 'control connection' will somehow turn into a 'love connection'. In addition it sums up my gut feeling that this is NOT right and that I have NEVER accepted his behaviour as normal - I cried at first, I fought, second, I disengaged when I had kids to keep the peace, and as they are older now I have reiterated to them clearly that this behaviour is NOT acceptable. And I have only managed to retain that last sense of instinct and gut feeling because I am strong, an inherited attitude from my mother who HAD to be strong. The big turnaround for me now is the realisation that my daughters are NOT strong - they are children and it is not right to let them watch this.

Update - the weekend was full of the usual BS from OH. I'm losing control (a bit) - generally moaning at everyone to pick up after themselves and not treat me like a maid, do what I ask when it needs to be done (DDs both over 11) for the 'sake of the team'. I gave up on OH a long time ago but they have now copied his behaviour and general house, homework, planning, behaviour are getting very messy. I'll be back on flylady today (just to keep the peace). Anyway the weekend OH attitude was cr*p, then he wants sex and it culminates in being my fault. The conversation is the same old one, me making it quite clear what's going on and then him not able to accept it. Then this morning he kisses me goodbye and humphs because I can't pucker up.

Sorry to ramble, ramble and ramble again, this should go in my diary but it feels so much better when it is heard by others.

Anyone new to this thread - hi please don't tell me to just leave, it's not as simple as that, it's been 25 years. However, feel free to tell me where to start, how on earth to disentangle myself from the home, friends, history, life we have built together (however unhealthily), the huge mounds of 'stuff' we share and where the do I move to in North London within the M25 for £200K (half value of current house after moving costs).

(where the fuck do I move to - I had four-starred it but it didn't show!)

I keep getting these moments of realisation.

Last night I had a blinding moment and said "just because a man has a hardon doesn't mean he needs to see it through". He has made me feel all these years that somehow having an erection means he has to get relief.

And yesterday I had another blinding moment about dd's attitude recently with other girls - lack of empathy and nearly bullying (dismissive of girls not able to spell properly) - other slightly aloof behaviour which is so not me. Of course she's picking up that it's normal to expect defensiveness from others, encouraging it (in an entirely innocent way of course - she's 13) by being passive aggressive.

And also her other attitude, which is telling of little sister. I used to tell her to stop, that's my job. Now I had the blinding moment that she's substituting for Daddy who is constantly undermining me - she's trying to back me up like he should.

Beverly Engels books have showed me this - how abuser and victim end up changing their behaviour, reacting to their original emotional abuser (usually family) by either becoming attacker or victim, then weaving that into their adult life in the new relationship.

Anyone heard from Vivee?

Annie - this sounds so familiar - I have similar diary entries. Weird obstructions with kids caught in between. It wastes so much energy that in a normal relationship could be put into love, support and care. Worrying that this was 5 years ago - has he changed at all since then?

bigbuttons - I now do EVERYTHING. I found that by not allowing him to do that kind of sit-on-the-stairs trick, he gave up doing that kind of obstruction. It got harder and harder for him - I would have got a monitor, sat it by me, or switched the tv off and sat upstairs watching i-player. You give up your life for them but it's a small price to pay for protecting the children from bullshit crap. It may seem like you're playing into their hands but what you are doing is protecting the bond between you and your children. That bond being stretched or worse, broken, is the worst thing that can ever happen to a child. It's that important. But it took me years to realise that.

I do the getting up early, the doctors appointments, school things, everything, and NEVER expect him to get involved. I put it all on the calendar so he can't tell me I didn't tell him about it. I do all the housework, take the bins out, cook and wash up, expect NOTHING from him. It's far easier for me that way. He goes to work every day though and I don't - but that's something he's always done and his life is no different to what it was 20 years ago. But he woke up this morning saying if he lost his job I'd better go and find one working at Tesco's, anything. (I'm currently at college training for new career, plus carer for disabled daughter, plus trying to find work. The only time I ever arse-sat was when dd was first born and I was so out of it on medications (for 2 years - he never questioned it - I couldn't do v much at all and my Mum had to step in. I don't remember the first two years of dd1's life.)

By the way bb, men/he misjudges the kids because he can't empathise. He can't empathise because he has a kind of personality disorder which has probably developed from some kind of original abuse (could have been very 'mild' and undetectable). He has learned to function in the outside world but will fail to at home because it's too ingrained. It's very sad for everyone really.

parental responsibility
OH does NOT have PR (dds born before 2003) but he is on birth certificate.
Question - should I give it to him on separation? My friend did, she said the court expected that - it would make life easier. I don't think it will - I think I would rather one of my family get it if necessary, or a close friend.

barbie - can totally understand your situation. You must use up so much energy on "managing" him. OTOH, it's often easier to just accept their limitations and put them in a box rather than expect help and support and be constantly disappointed.

social services involvement
As dd is disabled and registered, SS may get involved if he choosesto play hardball to protect kids from his poison. Would it benefit me & kids to get them involved more or is it better to just cut losses and move out (would have to be out of area because of housing problems).

Hmm. Tough one. Based on my own experience if you are going to move out (and it sounds like you will, sooner or later), you need all the support you can get. It never hurts to keep abusers on their toes and know they are being watched.
So I would say, if your experience of SS has been good and supportive thus far, then keep them involved. If not, get your support from friends and family if you can.