Support for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships

[ViVee]

I thought it would be a good idea to start a thread, a place to vent, offer support, advice.

I'm in an emotionally abusive relationship but I'm trying to find the tools to fight back - I've recently started counselling & the Lundy Bancroft book (Why Does He Do That? Inside The Minds of Angry and Controlling Men) (recommended by mumsnetters) has become my bible.

Anyone else feel the same?

what has scared you, bigbuttons?

Apologies if this has been mentioned - but do any of you ever write things down? I do/have and its eye-opening stuff, really helps to clarify that they are the contrary/manipulative/selfish/unpleasant creeps that we are better off without!

Writing things down is a very good idea. My solicitor first suggested it so that I could refer to concrete examples of unreasonable behaviour, with dates. I have just been reviewing my diary for 2007 and what joys it recalls... One of these days I'll probably quote some of it here.

Annie feel free! I think if everyone did that it would end up being "Twat Bingo" with lots of people saying "Oh - you too?"

I'm going to start to write things down, starting with last night/this morning's episode. OK here goes"
I sit on my own in the sitting room, have done for a long while now. Stbex sits in the hall on the computer. he says I have to keep the sitting room doors closed as the kids will get woken by the tv. I don't believe that for a second btw. All the time we shared the sitting room in the evening he never wanted the doors shut.
Anyway this means I can't hear if one of the little ones wakes up crying, only he can hear it and he has to tell me, stupid.
Dd3(5) has been stressed and troubled of late, I think mainly to do with my untreated depression, so last night I was told she was crying " she only wants you' he snarled I went in to the hall to hear an absolutely hysterical dd3 screaming "I don't want you" down the stairs to stbex and she actually shouted back " I don't want you either"
When I got to her she was inconsolebale, wouldn't be touched, hugged, talked down, anything. She was screaming and screaming. I sat for a while, ds3 (4) had woken and was anxious and I was absolutely desperate for the toilet. Since I knew I was in for the long haul I told dd3 I was going next door to the loo and would be straight back. Cue ore screaming. So went to the loo with ds3, came straight back into her room to find stbex there 'holding' a struggling screaming dd3 who was shouting"let me go I want my mummy" Then she saw me there and I took her from him, she now allowed herself to be cuddled peacfully. STBex was angry that I had come in spoiling his chance to settle her
So I took her and ds3 into my bed. They were happy but we didn't get a lot of sleep. I woke this morning to this charming email from stbex
So how long were you going to let my 5 year old daughter scream and throw herself around a dark room by herself, knowing you'd already taken her brother out? No wonder she was distraught!

All you had to do was go to her and she would have calmed. I'd love it to be me but Clara needs you right now.

You only walked in when you knew I'd gone in; I had a tiny chance of succeeding reduced to no chance as soon as you stood in the doorway. How on earth wash she going to settle when the person she really wanted was just standing dispassionately in front of her? Even then you didn't go to her, what is wrong with you? How could you sit in the room next door and not go to her? How?
We had a short email interchange. I didn't tell him anything that I have told you about last night. I'm not going to defend myself to him ever again. I told him I genuinely thought he had mental health issues, that he was paranoid and really needed some help. He accused me of throwing personal insults to which I replied that it wasn't an insult it was simply true.
He has started telling my narc mother lies about me again as well.

I am scared because he is getting more and more irrational in his behaviour. His paranoia seems to be getting worse. The last night's mad behaviour reminded me of the time he head butted me, he had that craziness about him.
I don't think he would touch me now, he's too clever, but he's so beyond sane now that I'm scared.

Omg he's even mentaler than my stbx but believe me not far off. Not at my laptop but be back to you in a bit buttons. He does appear to be quite insane and you need him out of there!

That's exactly it. When my wise friend sent me a link to this board, early '07 it must have been, my jaw dropped at the number of people whose OHs did exactly the same things as mine. My bro sent me a link to a list of emotional abuse indicators and it was, "My God, he's documented!" By the time I got around to reading "Why Does He Do That?" there were no surprises left.

OK, here's some selected extracts from the previous year, names changed to protect the innocent, occasional clarifications added. Bear in mind that at this point I had told him several months earlier that I wanted a divorce.

21/4/06 Notice given to move out of bedroom (H acknowledges was previously discussed).
...
1/5/06 H moved to spare room. Said I appear to have broken his rib + poss hurt his eye to stop him snoring. Considering X-ray.
...
29/5/06 Some time in past few days his wallet fell out of his trouser pocket with all credit cards.
...
7/6/06 [first meeting with EAR counsellor] H told counsellor I am running off with gamepal [bloke I had brief internet flirtation with, who by then had moved on to a more likely prospect].

9/6/06 Restated his intention not to sell or move out of house. Does not want to make it easy for "fancy man".

10/6/06 SIL [in America] rang. He told her I probably wouldn't move in w other bloke at first for appearances. Wouldn't let me speak to her because call was getting too expensive.

28/6/06 [after second counselling session] He will not sign separation agreement, but regards us as separated.

30/6/06 Argument re disposal of furniture.

3/7/06 Presented ultimatum: he is not to talk about me and "other men" in front of DCs.

5/7/06 re credit card. Lost joint one, does not want to use [replacement] one in his name in case I run off and leave him in debt. Will use cash instead. I said fine but not going back to joint card.

6/7/06 Discussion in car re jealousy (which he started): he is not jealous, jealousy is for teenagers.

26/7/06 [after last counselling session] He "withdrew permission" for me to have an affair. Argument on way home, complained I was going on and on (he wasn't of course).

27/7 - 3/8/06 Holiday! [A week in Majorca with my sister, her treat. I haven't written down all H's whines, eg the accusation that I paid for my sister's holidays and being absolutely furious that her male friend was driving us to the airport. Holiday almost certainly saved my life as I was practically suicidal at that point, and spent the first half of the week almost constantly in tears.]

14/8/06 H was slightly drunk (imo) on picking me up from the station, & kept laughing. Admitted he had had a little port. I insisted on driving home. Said among other things: I may have committed deception in signing some kind of affidavit for an ex-neighbour who was later imprisoned; I have been "at it" for years ("it" being trying to look younger for benefit of men); I have no interaction with my children.

25/8/09 CAB drop in from 9.30 am. CAB man says as we have house worth more than debts, mortgage much better than debt arrangement. H agrees. H told CAB man on way out that it's because I like younger men.

28/8/06 H said today he thought [gamepal] was back and saw me flirting with another player [this last was true]. It was "all about men after all". He will therefore not co-operate with any financial arrangements. Is sure CAB man was wrong about creditors being able to take house, having read CAB booklet. Is getting legal advice on Tues.

29/8/06 Legal advice was apparently to be v wary of agreeing to single-name mortgage cos deed holders can come to agreement w lendee to sell & pay off mortgage. I got opposite advice from same source. He then cdn't remember where he'd got it from; cd have been CAB leaflet.

3/9/06 Mega row. Taunting me re gaming = bad example to DS4 cos he plays all the time now like me (was in fact clustered with brothers who were all playing a different game to mine). "Court will not let you look after DS4..." "you get up every morning and play before work..." [untrue] etc, and men of course. Said he'd co-operated with me so far. (?!) [I] Threw stuff. Walked out [of the house, with an overnight bag, to my brother's].

5/9/06 3.30 GP counsellor. Came back after counselling. Nothing was said. he suggested we share cost of DS4's after-school care.

And there's another year's worth of that...

Good grief, BB. "How could you sit in the room next door and not go to her?" IT WAS THE TOILET FGS! It would be hilarious if it were not so disturbing. What did he want you to do, jump up and run into the bedroom leaving a trail of wee?

Seriously, what the fuck did he do/say to that little girl to terrify her so much?

Hi All, I don't know if I even belong here. I know that there is something very wrong with my marriage but I don't know if I'm being emotionally abused or not. I have had Relate counselling recently (on my own) and the Counsellor suggested that my H behaved in a bullying way. That really shook me and I have been thinking a lot about it.

I've been unhappy for years, but my H has never been physically abusive, sworn at me or acted in a threatening manner. If anything his weapon of choice is the cold shoulder, the distant anger, the "atmosphere". He can no longer have sex with me and not for any physical reason. I don't feel like an equal partner in this relationship - more like his caretaker. He doesn't make much of an effort with the DCs either - for instance, doesn't know what days my DS is writing his GCSE exams on, doesn't ask DS how the exam went, that type of thing.

I have allowed myself to become a door-mat. I do 90% of the housework, child-related activities and running of the house. He's completely self-absorbed and seems to take it as a personal insult if I ask him to help more around the house. He takes little interest in my DD who has autism. He leaves everything related to her care to me. I also work, and feel hugely resentful that I am having to do so much more than my fair share. The times that I have asked him about a more fair distribution of chores, he has been very unpleasant. He belittles me, makes my concerns appear trivial, and makes out that I'm trying to pick a fight. We can't discuss anything in a reasonable manner. It always ends up very nasty - he has a way of twisting my words so that I sound unreasonable and hysterical. I can't cope with this and usually end up in tears or having to walk out of the room as he continues to sneer at me.

He won't talk about his feelings, or why he has psychological ED. He can't bear the thought of me talking to friends or family about anything personal. He claims to be depressed, but refuses to see a GP to get help. He seems to have stopped making an effort with most things.

Is this emotional abuse? I'm pretty sure he's just using me for his personal convenience and is using the EA (if that is what it is) to "keep me in my place". I feel like the live-in housekeeper/nanny and have for some time. I have ordered a book on bullying and will read that also. I want to see a solicitor about where I would stand if we separated.

He always handles the little ones badly. Stupidly misjudges things. It's not me is it? he is not normal is he? I don't know how insane he is compared to other abusers. I'm going to read that list Annie.

JuJuBeans: sounds like emotional abuse to me, sure enough. Whether he can help it... well, that's the thing most of us wonder. What, in fact, are you getting out of your marriage? How would you feel if he were kidnapped by aliens?

Welcome to the thread, JuJuBeans
A look through this thread will probably confirm that you are in an EA relationship. You certainly sound very unhappy - justifiably so. Please keep posting and hopefully you will get some useful advice and support.
BB - that is awful, your poor DC's It most certainly is NOT you!
Annie - loads of familiar stuff there. (nodding head)

Annie I don't think he can help it to be honest but that doesn't change things really. I can't make him change and from reading on here, it seems as if it can be worse than a waste of time to even try. He had a very dysfunctional childhood, there was no-one there for him when he was a child/teen/young adult. In many ways I think he's not very well adjusted. He doesn't have friends and in particular seems to have trouble getting on with women. But at the end of the day, I can't be responsible for his issues if he won't help himself. I have suggested counselling, sleeping pills, anti-depressants, Viagra, you name it, but he won't entertain any of my suggestions. I have pleaded with him to see his GP, I have found the names of consultants at the local private hospital, but he just wants to go through life in his little bubble of misery and self-absorption.

Yesterday was a typical incident. He came home in the usual grumpy mood and didn't say hello to the kids. Eventually I asked him if he was even going to speak to DS and ask how his Maths exam had gone. DS had been very anxious about this paper. I got shouted at - "why are you attacking me, how am I supposed to know about this etc etc" and then he didn't speak to me for the rest of the evening, banging things down and so on. When my DD had to go for tests at the hospital recently it was the same thing - I took her on my own, and he didn't even phone to find out if she was OK. Clearly didn't even remember about the appointment because he didn't ask when he got home either.

I'm not getting much out of the marriage, which is why I want to get out of it. Even my DM thinks it would be a good thing and she's very old-school. She has been on the receiving end of his moods and unpleasantness at times as well.

If he were kidnapped by aliens, I would probably be quite relieved, as long as they carried on paying maintenance! Seriously, the times when he's away on business are when I'm happiest and that tells me everything I need to know. I'm scared about discussing separation with him though and I don't know how to go about doing it. Any ideas?

The conclusion I came to with XH was that it didn't really matter whether he was doing it on purpose or not. I just couldn't live with it any more. I certainly couldn't fix him, and for preservation of my own sanity (possibly a bit late for that actually) I had to get away. Obligingly he behaved so badly during the run-up to the divorce any sympathy had long evaporated by the time we finally got the house sold. Two hellish years (see excerpt from diary above).

Difficult to suggest how to broach the subject. From what you say he doesn't sound like the sort of person who's open to frank discussions about relationships. Also, though it can't have escaped his notice that you aren't 100% happy, separation is likely to be something of a shock to him. Then again as you say he doesn't seem to show much interest in the family so how much would he care if you weren't there, other than having to do his own household chores or buy somebody in? Not, mind you, that he won't be furious and either hurt or pretending to be, since it was your idea. If you don't get told that he's not going anywhere, you walk if that's what you want but you aren't getting a penny, and you needn't think you can take HIS children with you, I shall be much surprised.

A few openings:

"It doesn't seem either of us are very happy. I wonder if it might not be better if we were to try living apart."

"I can't help feeling this isn't what a marriage should be like and I want to call it a day."

"You are a miserable grumpy sod and I don't want to be around you any more." Er, maybe not that one.

My Ex turned up at the school fete today and 2 of my school mum friends commented on his girlfriend saying "She looks like a doormat!" "Is she a doormat?" To which i answered "Yes most probably, as that is how he treated me......!"
they dont change and you will find , that they are the sons of abusers too.........
..most of the time.

ViVEE... Are you there? I hope you are alright.
Did you EVER imagine this wonderful powerful thread of yours would go on and on and on for so long??????
Its frightening to see how many people are suffering or have suffered with abusive relationships.
It still makes me cross now to think how many are suffering at the hands of their partners...male or female......but with this thread it seems mostly females are claiming to be in this horrid situation.
What i say is: Stick up for yourselves. do what is right ,,, dont let them walk all over you; and if its violent, do the right thing, and get the hell OUT!
Stay strong!

The problem is that I don't want to leave the family home - at least not right away - I want him to leave. It will have to be sold at some point though. I have mentioned separation before, but I don't think he believed that I was serious. I have also said that I'm not prepared to stay in a sexless marriage (althought I don't actually want to have sex with him at this point). Again, not believing I don't think.

I just can't imagine the words in my head or even how to initiate such a conversation. I just want to skip to the part where he's gone and I'm getting on with my life. I know that he's not going to react well. He's going to make out that I'm being completely unreasonable, which is what he always does, to the point where I think that I'm being unreasonable as well. He will be angry because I'm not following the approved script (his script that is) and daring to stand up to him. I'm dreading it - I don't deal well with confrontation. He will be angry because this will "show him up" and make him look bad. He probably won't want the kids because that would be too much like hard work.

I had thought of trying the ultimatum route but haven't worked up enough courage to sit down and do it yet - "get yourself sorted by the end of the year or we need to live apart for a while". I think that might work. Why is it so hard to get out of these relationships?

With these abusive partners, is it usual for them to be really quite nice and pleasant as long as everything is going their way? That's what does my head in - how he can be so nice some of the time, and so utterly vile at other times and then just seem to expect that I should forget how he's treated me. It's like he edits those bits from his memory. He honestly seems to think that he's a good father and husband - that if he earns money and is physically present, then that's enough.

Thanks to the OP for this thread. The worst part about being in an abusive relationship is that often you don't even realise that you are being abused and just end up being a pathetic submissive person. I hate feeling this way about myself.

JUJU, it's the being nice every now and again that keeps are reeled in because e too want to believe that everything is alright.
stbex gets very cross when I bring up his past atrocities. Either he denies they ever happened or he tells me I should move on and forget it, like when he head butted me when I was pg and holding a sick baby whilst balanced on the edge of a cot.
I don't know how you can tell him. Could you email him, write him a letter? In my experience it's hard to get them t of the family home. They enjoying torturing and won't give up on that easily

crispy stbex's dad left his mother when she was expecting him and got married to his brother's wife (muslim) and then to another woman with whom he had about 10 children. His mother is very odd, but I like her. He was raised by his grandmother and mother. Neither are/were normal people at all I suspect he was emotional completely neglected. I would say his upbringing was abusive through neglect. They say most male abusers are victims of abuse whereas most female partners of male abusers were also the victims of abuse.

Friends, there is a new girl/thread... I've told her to come over here too!

here's her thread

Hi everyone, so pleased this thread is still ongoing. I was away on holiday with my Mum and DCs hence my absence.

Things have been really difficult. My H went on a night out and rolled home drunk - the main reason I left him before Xmas was the drinking but I returned when he said he wasn't drinking (not true - he still goes out to the pub quiz weekly for a few pints but at least has been going to bed and not staying up drinking as he used to.)

Anyway, last night he came home drunk and stayed up all night only going to bed when I went downstairs with DCs for breakfast.

In itself this sounds not that bad, but given the background it really pisses me off that he denies he has a drinking problem, and that I realise he never took me seriously when I told him his drinking makes me anxious.

Also, he had texted his Mum to come round early this morning-she appeared as I opened the door just about to leave for my parents with our overnight bags packed, sabotaging my efforts to go. Ok I allowed them to be sabotaged, but I feared his wrath I suppose.

Waiting for an apology that will never come -secretly I hope it doesn't as this will be further ammunition for me, hateful as that sounds.

Wish I had had the strength not to go back when I did :(

Hi - I am the new person from the other thread!

Peeptoes, I haven't read all the posts here yet, but your situation sounds familiar to me. My ex used to have his Mum show up at convenient moments, and I felt forced to pretend everything was ok. If only I had told her the truth earlier. Can you keep those bags packed?

The niceness facade is getting really irritating here. Ahh! Feel like I'm not sticking to my guns anymore about the relationship being over. I seem to have a power over him that I didn't before like he's afraid to step wrong. At this stage even if he was trying to change his ways, which is doubtful, I've already fallen out of love with him anyway. So basically. Someone should slap me as I've weakened again to bask in the peace. I hate this.
BigButtons, hope you are ok, your stbx sounds a tad unhinged.

Evening all, sorry not been around for the last few days... No drama here. no contact from exH at all so fantastic for me!!!

Ladies I can totally understand the idea that your STBXH has mental health problems, when I left my ExH last year, I had him assessed by the psychiatric team beacuse I thought he was totally off his rocker, but acutally he wasn't.

this is abuse
Also, we, the victims survivors are not mentally ill either, I would put money on the fact that if any of us were removed from the abusive situations, our "mental health" issues would dramaticallyl improve. I'm not trying to minimise anybody#s problems, just point out that a lot of these are reactoins to the abuse, remove the abuse and things get a lot lot lot better.

I really don't know what is the best thing to do about getting out of the situation. The most obvious way to end your relatoinship is to leave him and move out, but I don't know where you stand legally if you own a property together. I can't see that it makes that much difference, even if you own part of the property, if you leave, it will have to be sold and you will get your share of the money.

It really upsets me thinking of all these poor families of women and children who feel trapped because they can't move out of their own home. But I could guarantee that the abuser ain't going nowhere fast if he can help it, so it's a total stalemate.

Back later
and welcome to any new faces