For those with a narc mother (long, rambling)

[Odille]

I know I shouldn't expect any different from her. I'm here for a rant and a bit of hand-holding if I'm honest. It'd just be good to hear from others who actually understand what life with a narc mother is like. Also, any tips for support e.g. weblinks or books would be appreciated.

Backstory:
I'm basically middle aged but only realised my mother had narc traits in the past couple of years. I can now see the typical pattern of our relationship through childhood / adolescence / adulthood. I've recently become better at setting boundaries and actually walked out of her home after she said something particularly nasty. I'd done the "if you keep talking about me like that I'm leaving" threat and carried it through.

Anyway, I've just had a fight with her. Probably the first time I've spoken truthfully to her about my feelings if I'm honest (I've a very superficial relationship with her.) Basically, during my recent pg I have tried to have the typical mum/daughter experience that outsiders expect. Several times she has taken things that she knows I want to be kept private and told others. Last year it was a miscarriage, I have told only very close friends who I knew would be supportive, she has told the local gossipy types that ensure everyone knows (i.e. people who don't even know me.) I was very clear afterward and during the subsequent pg that the only message to give out to others is "Odille is fine, the baby is fine, give her a call if you want to chat (i.e. know more.) I was clear that I am private about certain things, that I'm telling her things I don't want spread any further. (I know. Why did I try?) So last week I gave birth and in a fog of morphine mentioned things that I would have normally kept private. And of course it's all out there and in Chinese whispers fashion has become more dramatic than the reality with people calling to hear about my "horrendous birth" - not in a supportive way but in a gossipy way. So, I'm annoyed with myself for mentioning any details, but also told her in no uncertain terms that I can't believe after all the previous conversations that she still won't accept that it's my decision to decide who knows what. She doesn't get it at all, actually said that she knew I'd have told C (my best friend since childhood who also gave birth recently) so it's hardly a secret. When I said that I want to concentrate on the happy event of having a baby rather than dissecting a birth story with random callers who last phoned to hear the gory details about the misc her response was "women like to know these things". She wouldn't accept that just because someone asks for details doesn't mean they have to be given. (She's told enough details that people are calling me to hear the rest.)

So, she's not talking to me (yes!) and I know I'll be painted as The Bad Daughter but as I've worn that crown so often that's fine.

My partner thinks I should just ignore it for a quiet life and behave as though nothing's happened. (That's his style for emotional stuff.) Her style is to not talk about things but seethe silently so she'll not mention it again. (E.g. she could ignore me for months on end as a child if I did the wrong thing, ignoring birthdays etc while she was annoyed and until I worked out what I'd done wrong and was suitably ostracised.)

Anyone else been there?
Thanks for reading.

Oops..sorry that post was so long...obviously I have been a pondering for a while.

A lot of people who have had these relationships have c-ptsd. A good website for help is Pete-walker.com. He has a list to help overcome flashbacks and triggers.
It is illuminating, but can be very upsetting when you realise just how much damage they have done.

My "mother" had heart surgery last year and I had no desire whatsoever to go anywhere near her or my sisters. As you say Mizzy, I don't want to become re-entangled with all that weird stuff.

I was eagerly awaiting the call to say that the witch was dead. Sadly she survived.

Mizzy, are you my twin? I always felt like a part of me was missing

Totally get you re the void thing. As I have also gone NC with the rest of the 'family' it did used to get to me if I heard about anything like that. Now I just think, you're all welcome to it - you have no idea what she is really like. But that's another thing I've been wondering. Now I'm off the scene, does she transfer the scapegoat (me) onto someone else in the family? She has several other 'golden children' so am wondering if one of them has fallen off the pedestal?

I also read the intensive care thread, but that was too painful to read much of. One of her other children (who abused me as a child) was at death's door last year in intensive care. I managed to avoid having to visit without explaining why. If I had gone I'm not sure I would have been able to stop myself from flicking the switch. Unfortunately he survived and is still crawling this earth and is definitely the most golden of children.

The thing that gives me the most comfort now is to think of myself as an only child; it's one of the few thoughts that gives me some peace and freedom.

Thanks for the link thisis .... some very worthwhile reading there I think.

I only have contact with one Uncle MyHipsHurt but have become aware that he is finding fence sitting extremely, difficult, I do try to keep our convo's at chit chat level for his sake.

He doesn't relay info' on purpose, I don't think...he just forgets I am no contact!

He was telling me my about my parents new furniture the other day....er um...I don't care what colour their sofa is actually!

I have a narc mother and only just found out what it means, although me and my brother have known for years she is mentally deranged :)

I have decided on her recent behaviour to go to low contact ie the bare minimum I can get away with.....not sure how this is going to work out as I am due this weekend so another grandchildren will require a visit

My mum...

the ultimate victim
taking the bin out requires a greek tragedy
I can tell you intimate details about the neighbours and her life
she knows nothing about mine, will make stuff up to tell said neighbours as she doesn't listen to what I do say
everyone is wrong
she is superior in everyway and knows more about subjects that people have a degree or phd in
Her mother was evil
Her relationship with my dad was perfect (she slagged him off since I was 6 because she thinks he had an EA and made sure I didn't have a relationship with him even though they stayed together)
everyone is lying

too much to mention, oh yeah as a 17 year old I looked like a lesbian

ermmmmmm I actually want to ring her now and let off some steam but that would just make her the victim so I am currently just not answering the phone or calling the old harriden

and I am totally loving the freedom

the only problem is trying to get my lovely dp to understand when his parents are lovely and its his brother who has some kind of aspergers or anxiety problem so is used to accomodating people with 'quirks'

sympathy and loving mothering hugs to all without mothers on here (with no strings attached) x

Odille .. i think we are all gratefu to you for posting this fab thread. We all have non functioning mothers who make us feel like s.....t.
As someone said earlier here we should all have a meet up. I personally would really appreciate a supportive group I can share the sadness and horribleness of living with a mother who hasnt really been one ...
Is there anyone else living in Wiltshire/Hants/Dorset/???
I am in Wiltshire . . .anyone else??

Got a 'get well soon' card from neighbours of my parents (we're friendly, invited them to my wedding, used to babysit their children).

My narc mother has clearly fed them a pack of hyperbole - all "so sorry to hear you have been so unwell after your operation", "what an awful time for you all".

I have had VERY MINOR surgery for a long-standing issue. My mother's not been round to see me once and hasn't called so I'm not sure where she's getting this information that I am on death's door.

It's all so she can let everyone know HOW HARD IT IS FOR HER - not sure what to do now. Gah!

I'd send a Thank you for the card note to the neighbours. I'd say you appreciate their best wishes but can assure them your operation was only minor, you are well on the way to recovery, also mention how kind of them to think and worry about you even though the operation was just 'routine'.

They can then ask your mother about any further' details'!

I wouldn't mention the card to my mother...I'd wait for her to mention it....

I'm in the arse end of nowwhere jellyvodkas...deepest darkest Cornwall...so no good for a meet...am happy to chat on here though...as you can tell!

It really is scary how much of this rings true in my life. I would come home to see her after 6 months (lived 400 miles away at the time) and the FIRST thing she would comment on was my appearance usually something about my weight "your arse has gotten huge!" I have never been more than a size 10 in my life. My hair would either be too long, too short, needing my roots done etc. An aunt once asked me if I was still feeding DD2 to which I said "no she stopped a month ago" my Mother said "oh I thought your boobs had shrunk away to nothing" cue the entire room staring at my chest! When I was younger and first developing she found one of my bras (bought by myself) and she refused to believe it was mine as it was a bigger cup size than hers. She thought it was my friends! It really got to her I had bigger boobs than she did, of course she said I would get huge boobs and get fat like my Italian gran! My BF actually said to me that she thought my Mum was really jealous of me and it is well known that mothers can be very jealous of their daughters especially as our generation had more opportunities than they did.

She's the victim as well, she had some gynae problem googled it and one of the things that came up was possible cancer so she told everyone she was having a cancer scare. She would phone me up and spend 20 minutes telling me all her ailments and she could die you know? In fact her entire phonecalls were either about her dying/slagging off other family member/slagging me off. So I stopped phoning her, it's great not having to listen to her for an hour.

When I had a mc she told everyone how she couldn't sleep for worrying about me yet told me it was for the best as 3 DC would have been expensive, she then told everyone we would wait at least a year to try again so was horrified when the next month I was pregnant again (she told me I was stupid) I think she was jealous that I would better her in having more than 2 DC although I could try for a boy (before my DH left me of course).

What you have all said about only realising it truly when you become a Mum yourself is also very true, you naturally want everything to be better for your DC, you spend so much time telling them how special and loved they are, hugging and kissing them etc and you think "how can you not do that to your child?"

Did anyone else's mother always say to them "you'll understand when you have children!" - meaning we'd understand what cruel awful people we were?

And then you DO understand - but you understand it's your mother that's the problem :/

I cannot imagine being as cruel and emotionally abusive to one of my DCs. I just can't even imagine the thought processes. That's why finding out about NPD was such a breakthrough for my sense of self - I was well-trained and hated myself for being so shameful/ugly/insufficient for so long and am only now beginning to see that it's not my fault she hates me.

Another breakthrough was when she cornered my DH to tell him he'd never understand how awful I was because "you weren't around when she was fifteen"... I just thought wow, she is stuck in this oubliette which bears no relationship to reality, I can't snap her out of it.

*wineisfine" - yes, yes, yes. It was her instant shut the fuck up code - "you will understand when you become a mother". Now, however, I understand even less.

Finding out about NPD has helped me enormously. Before, I always blamed myself (as I had been trained) but having children led me to think that there was something far from normal with her and then finding out about NPD was the missing piece of the jigsaw. It gave me permission to stop trying as there was no point as she will never change.

ooh yes,I heard that one many times,along with "stop crying or I'll give you something to cry about"........wtf?

I've since had it said that I am lucky,as my dc are "so good to me" ....therefore,despite the fact I have 5 dc and am on my own;she actually had it much harder,since although she only had 3,and my dad was right beside her (fists at the ready) one was me....and she would defy anyone to cope with a child like me,under any circumstances....

Mine just emerged as insightful,emotionally intelligent and wary of her ....

Gosh finding this so helpful!

SK. Mine would also do that - comment on my physical appearance. And follow me into showers etc so she could look at me properly.

Mine is totally charming and very loved by many. Especially the substitute daughters. When I was working it all out when I had a daughter myself I suddenly realised how she said so many nice things about acquaintance women and women she worked with who were the same age. BUt never about me.

I too was the difficult one
She is scared of me according to sis
Sis now turning into her too - happy to see me scapegoated

I am no contact except the occasional visit with DCs. Feel sad for Dcs but dont want them to have much contact.

Im lucky in that most of family are accepting of my position although sad about splits in family. Sadly sister did once accept we had been treated differently but now has changed under barrage of helpfulness and guilt tripping about getting her better from a serious illness when young. Sister now golden child as brother married to someone who wont put up with her shocking behaviour (Hurray and Respect!)

I am grateful every day I dont have to deal with the horrible things she says about people. Seeing her makes my skin crawl a bit and I dont like to be touched by her

It is a huge sadness and Ive really grieved having a loving mother etc etc. At least a lot of my relatives have been loving and supportive and that has helped.

Goldenchild is my younger brother, the much coveted male child. She must have been so upset that I was academically leagues better than my brother. I think that's where most of this stems from that a mere female was the clever and independent one. How dare I try and take the limelight from her darling son!

Funny how DBs girlfriends were always frowned upon about never being good enough for him, his latest one (now his fiancee and having a baby) oh when they first got together she was a harlot that forced my DB out to work, he was a complete layabout, now she is golden daughter, can do no wrong, she cannot believe my brother got something so beautiful, I had to listen to how every man in the room turns round when she walks in etc etc and she smokes like my mother which in her eyes in a plus point.

I am so glad we have no contact now as it would drive me mad listening to her go on and on about this new grandchild as if mine don't exist.

Does anyone else drive themselves crazy making sure that they treat their own children all equally? I have 3 girls then a boy and I get so annoyed when people tell me how great it is to finally have a boy etc like the girls don't matter as much.

My bro is the golden child. Now that he is divorcing my lovely sIL it has really made my Mum's NPD come into full force. My mum has said some truly wicked lies about my SIL - I had no idea she was capable of being quite so spiteful.

I try so hard to treat my boys equally.

I am limited contact with my mum - I don't want to lose contact with my Dad (yes, he is an enabler but my mum isn't so stupid that she shows her true self to him).

bentoutofshapebutbreathing , thank you so much for your insights My journey seems to have been much the same as yours so far...I also have had lots of low contact, no contact and complete engulfment episodes...but this time feels like my 'enough' time.

I also have an affinity with gardening and the cycles of life, so recognise that feeling too.

It seems as if I am at the cusp of being 'done', the time I will just move on the next stage of my life and chalk up my family to nothing more than a learning experience that is now past.

I suppose when the time comes, that I don't feel the need to discuss or examine my family because my own life is too busy and important to be brooding about the past - then that will be the day I am 'done'....when finally I am more important in my own life than them.

-----------

Another thing I have realised is that my family don't like change...it's as if they want you stuck in a certain period in your life forever.

Any physical change is met with disapproval....they don't like you growing/cutting your hair, they don't like you revamping your wardrobe to something more age appropriate...they can change stuff at a whim....but any changes to you are met with instant dislike. This also goes for educating yourself further to or a change in your philosophy of life....it's a if they want to lock you in a certain period of your life forever!

I also noticed the 'period' of time allotted to me is when I was at my weakest in the independence sense.

Does anybody else worry about being like their mother? I know that being aware of it probably means you won't, but I can't help second guessing my actions sometimes.

Am I too self involved? Do I not do enough for my friends / other family members when they need help? Am I compassionate enough?

I sometimes fear what I might be like in the future?

Having: all the time. It doesn't help either that we've grown up in households which have been very negative and critical - that parenting "voice" is then in our heads judging our own parenting.

Remember a big part of narc traits is to not be able to admit you are wrong - polar opposite to what we're feeling! That doesn't mean to say that we haven't picked up bad parenting examples though and that we do have to be watchful, imo.

I think a huge part of recovering from a narc parent is to learn to parent yourself. Part of that is knowing when to be firm with yourself (in a kind, compassionate way) and tell yourself to buck your ideas up, another part of it is to know when you just need a big hug and a big dose of slack!

RubberDuck I wonder how watchful one can be, when you're an exhausted, overwhelmed new parent.
I also anticipate much interference from my mother should we decide to have kids. I'm not ready to go NC at the moment, but who knows, having kids might be the motivation to do so.

We recently had a small taste of what she may be like with any child of ours - we left our dog with her for a few days while we were on holiday. I left a small page of feeding instructions and 3 or 4 commands we use (he's just a pup really). She told me when I asked whether he was obeying the commands for her "oh, I didn't bother looking at those".

I realise of course that dog does not = child, but still.....

Having - yes that's my biggest worry for my DCs that I subconciously parent like my 'mother' did. It's the emotional stuff that bothers me the most.

But I know I don't do other stuff - I always cook really nice healthy meals for them, they have LOADS of clothes, if they are ill I look after them and sleep beside them if they are in hospital. You know, stuff that a child shouldn't have to worry about not having......

And yes, she always said 'you'll understand when you have children..' Yes I do, but not in the way she'd hoped.

Did anyone else's 'mother' say 'I'm trying my best' if you dared to complain as a child.

I find I turn into my parents only when I interact with them...I pick up 'fleas' so easily. It's as if I've had a personality transplant...I am aware of the change in me but it's so difficult to break the script when having their 'input' all the time.

My parents never said 'I'm trying my best'...we never complained through fear...so there were no answers to be given.