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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

For those with a narc mother (long, rambling)

167 replies

Odille · 10/05/2011 15:39

I know I shouldn't expect any different from her. I'm here for a rant and a bit of hand-holding if I'm honest. It'd just be good to hear from others who actually understand what life with a narc mother is like. Also, any tips for support e.g. weblinks or books would be appreciated.

Backstory:
I'm basically middle aged but only realised my mother had narc traits in the past couple of years. I can now see the typical pattern of our relationship through childhood / adolescence / adulthood. I've recently become better at setting boundaries and actually walked out of her home after she said something particularly nasty. I'd done the "if you keep talking about me like that I'm leaving" threat and carried it through.

Anyway, I've just had a fight with her. Probably the first time I've spoken truthfully to her about my feelings if I'm honest (I've a very superficial relationship with her.) Basically, during my recent pg I have tried to have the typical mum/daughter experience that outsiders expect. Several times she has taken things that she knows I want to be kept private and told others. Last year it was a miscarriage, I have told only very close friends who I knew would be supportive, she has told the local gossipy types that ensure everyone knows (i.e. people who don't even know me.) I was very clear afterward and during the subsequent pg that the only message to give out to others is "Odille is fine, the baby is fine, give her a call if you want to chat (i.e. know more.) I was clear that I am private about certain things, that I'm telling her things I don't want spread any further. (I know. Why did I try?) So last week I gave birth and in a fog of morphine mentioned things that I would have normally kept private. And of course it's all out there and in Chinese whispers fashion has become more dramatic than the reality with people calling to hear about my "horrendous birth" - not in a supportive way but in a gossipy way. So, I'm annoyed with myself for mentioning any details, but also told her in no uncertain terms that I can't believe after all the previous conversations that she still won't accept that it's my decision to decide who knows what. She doesn't get it at all, actually said that she knew I'd have told C (my best friend since childhood who also gave birth recently) so it's hardly a secret. When I said that I want to concentrate on the happy event of having a baby rather than dissecting a birth story with random callers who last phoned to hear the gory details about the misc her response was "women like to know these things". She wouldn't accept that just because someone asks for details doesn't mean they have to be given. (She's told enough details that people are calling me to hear the rest.)

So, she's not talking to me (yes!) and I know I'll be painted as The Bad Daughter but as I've worn that crown so often that's fine.

My partner thinks I should just ignore it for a quiet life and behave as though nothing's happened. (That's his style for emotional stuff.) Her style is to not talk about things but seethe silently so she'll not mention it again. (E.g. she could ignore me for months on end as a child if I did the wrong thing, ignoring birthdays etc while she was annoyed and until I worked out what I'd done wrong and was suitably ostracised.)

Anyone else been there?
Thanks for reading.

OP posts:
piranhamorgana · 10/05/2011 18:38

My mother absolutely and categorically believes she has the right to know exactly what is said/goes on between everyone in the family,including in laws,friends, acquaintances - whoever.

She becomes hysterical and vicious if this is denied her.Then my father and brothers rally round and also turn on whoever has upset her.And whoever it is,I will be the ultimate root cause.

OP,I hope this hijack is helpful in some way.If not,sorry.(it's not all about me,I so desperately don't want to be like her.dc know to shoot me if I lose insight and become stuck in Granny mode)

bustersmummy · 10/05/2011 18:38

Piranha - are you my secret sister I never knew I had Grin

MizzyWizzyDizzy · 10/05/2011 18:44
Grin

Yup...no contact between family members except through mother...and whoa betide those who break that rule!

It must be killing her knowing I have 'private' contact with any relative let alone her own brother...mwahahahah!

piranhamorgana · 10/05/2011 18:59

Buster - I was wondering the same thing Grin

UnlikelyAmazonian · 10/05/2011 19:26

No no no, PM is MY secret sister. Hands off!! Grin

Wink to PM x

bustersmummy · 10/05/2011 19:28

You wanna take this outside UA, huh? huh?

Come on if you think you're hard enough Wink

thisishowifeel · 10/05/2011 19:31

I have had contact with some of my dad's family since I went NC. They invited me and dc's for Easter last year. My "mother" got wind of this and invited herself down the day after I'd gone home. They weren't fooled. They'd seen some of the stuff she'd said about me in emails.

I can imagine the horror that I may be doing and saying things the way I saw it!!!!!!! She always has to have barrister sister with her, in case there is some legal angle they can get me with!

I used to keep my size 8 body shrouded under trackies and giant jumpers too.

MyHipsHurt · 10/05/2011 19:44

Interesting point about clothes. I was denied any, apart from my school uniform plus one poloneck and a pinafore dress. That was it for years, until I got myself a part-time job, whilst still at school, to pay for my own. Oh sorry I forgot,she bought me one bra, which was a deeply humiliating shopping experience, never to be repeated even when I needed a bigger size. Meanwhile she was glamorous as ever with a full wardrobe of stylish clothes to choose from.

ScaredOfCows · 10/05/2011 20:02

I always realised deep down that my mother wasn't like other mothers, but didn't consiously think about it. I was aware at school that I didn't know fo anyone else who was scared of their mother in the way that I was.

Again, after having children, I realised that things were different to other parent/daughter relationships I saw around me. It's only as our children have got older and become more 'people in their own right' rather than children that she can have control over that I have questioned the reasons for it all more. MN made me finally put the jigsaw pieces together a few years ago, and although I feel sad that I realise things will never be any different, I feel better now that I accept that most of it is beyond my control.

Strangely, she cut contact with every single family member over the years, both her family and my Dad's. I think that she will just see my limited contact with her as history repeating and further evidence of another difficult family member.

thisishowifeel · 10/05/2011 20:04

I covered a lot of this ground in therapy.

She also cut my hair, and laughed when I cried that I looked like a boy.

I always had blue stuff, you know nightie, toothbush etc, where my goldenchild sister had pink. I was never allowed a barbie, but was allowed cars and bricks, only.

She has a very strange view of the male....she believes that they are all evil. I think that's why she defined me as male, to make it easier to hate and blame me.

And yet, she was so promiscuous! As was goldenchild sister, who caught everything going and got a reputation to match, and neither of them could understand why people spoke badly of my sister.

We had a visit from Princess Diana once, and my mum managed to shag one of the underwater search team that visited the night before (looking for bombs I guess!) in a side room of the local pub.

How many times can you die from utter embarrassment.

Oh and shopping. No, it ALWAYS became about how manufacturers don't make trousers for real women like her, and she ALWAYS ended up yelling at shop staff and then expecting a family wide boycott of the whole chain of that particular store. And woebetide if you were caught shopping there! Hauled oin front of her kangaroo court for "Disloyalty"

Oh God...It was fucking horrible. Every day. She sounds like a middle eastern despot. She was/is I suppose.

MizzyWizzyDizzy · 10/05/2011 20:18

"I think that she will just see my limited contact with her as history repeating and further evidence of another difficult family member."

This is how my lot see my no contact ScaredOfCows...tbh I don't care how they take my actions anymore...as long as they just leave me alone.

I have explained my ishoos with their behaviour until I sound like a stuck record and still they somehow don't hear me. Confused

As for the clothes thing...one pair of wellies, one pair of school shoes...one complete school uniform to last a whole week if not longer...and as for how often we were bathed...well you can guess...not often. I did have a very expensive 'Sunday Church' dress though...that I was only allowed to wear for Sunday service...after that it was back to mothers cast offs....she was always a small woman so by the age of ten or there abouts we were the same size clothes wise.

I also got subjected to the 'the haircut' at some stage...and the dreaded wonky fringe regularly. It must have stuck in her throught summat awful the year I was chosen May Queen by my class mates. Grin

I used to steal food for us kids when we were little as we were so hungry....better hungry than fat are mother and fathers opinion! Gah!

MizzyWizzyDizzy · 10/05/2011 20:19

Good grief...my spelling..sorry everyone. Blush

garlicbutter · 10/05/2011 20:20

Odille, I can't better or add to the replies you've had already, but just wanted to add another to your list of me-too supporters Wink

I still have a relationship with my mother, but it's far more distant than before I realised what a shallow, machinating lunatic she is. I don't tell her anything she'd be interested in; I only ring her if I've not heard from her for over a week. I ask her about herself, that keeps her talking for the required 10 minutes!

It took me around four months to 'train' her. During that time, I was very rigid with her - sent her away when she turned up unarranged, repeated "I don't want to discuss that with you, I don't have to give reasons", etc. It hurt me more than it hurt her, tbh. I had massive & priceless support from the Stately Homes threads during that time :)

As you say, lots of people (not just women) wake up to their parents when they have their own children. I haven't got kids; my mum pulled a very mean trick on me, which changed my life irrevocably for the worse - all for her own ego. These days I treat her like some old lady I know, I have no "Mother" as it's usually meant - I never have had, a fact I was tragically unaware of before she did her trick.

That's the hard part, isn't it - the change in your own head & heart. She's not the woman who'd lay down her life for you, would move heaven & earth to help you out, who understands you better than anyone else ... there is no such "Mother" in your life :(

Get your head round that, and you're done. Stately Homes can help a lot :)

Sorry for the essay Blush

garlicbutter · 10/05/2011 20:23

Oh, and congrats on your baby!

shelfy74 · 10/05/2011 21:30

I can't believe that other people have mothers like mine! New to mumsnet and thought my situation was unique, never met anyone in real life whose mum behaves like this. Had thought she was narcissistic from previous googling but reading how this manifests itself from you guys is real eye opener. I am going to start a thread about my mums behaviour since the birth of my son 7 weeks ago as I get the feeling that I might have found a source of understanding here. Xx

tallulah · 10/05/2011 21:59

Another one with a mother like this :(

I've just had surgery for bowel cancer. The time between diagnosis and surgery was very quick- we were all in a bit of a shock. My mum told everybody she has ever met Angry The first thing she did when she got off the phone with me was to ring my brother, who I don't have much to do with. I can appreciate she was shocked and needed to offload. But then she told all the ladies in her keep-fit class, and all the ladies in her line-dancing class, and all the... you get the picture. I don't even know these people.

I was really Angry when she rang a couple of weeks later to say "I was just telling Uncle X...", and thought WHY???!!!! It isn't her news to tell. She managed to make the whole situation about her, and how upset she was. I didn't really want to tell anybody but she didn't give me that option of keeping it to myself.

(Then I feel guilty for "being nasty" to her :( )

garlicbutter · 10/05/2011 22:08

Ouch, Talullah! I hope the surgery went OK. How are you now? It's a real pity you don't have a "Mother" to be a bit unselfish when you need looking after :(
My sympathies. And best wishes for a good recovery.

Odille · 10/05/2011 22:31

Thanks everyone for sharing your stories. It's sad-but-good to hear that narc mothers are a real phenomenon. I have found it difficult to talk to people in RL about this, individual incidents can seem petty when relayed to others with no experience of this behaviour. And I go along with the charade when people in RL talk about her. I wish I'd known about NPD years ago, it's explained so much (how I can simultaneously be the overachiever and the great disappointment) and would have made my teenage and young adult years a lot easier.

Out of interest, I wonder if her current situation is common for narcs in later life. She is now retired and has no real friends or interests. She is constantly at her GP for anxiety / depression (counselling didn't work.) LOVES her GP as he gives her loads of attention. She does have some real health concerns but hams them up e.g. if anyone else has the same diagnosis, it's so much worse for her etc etc. If anyone mentions an illness she has to turn the conversation to her own ailments.

It seems that setting (and resetting) boundaries is the way to go. I had less contact with her before the pregnancy and will return to that.

OP posts:
jellyvodkas · 10/05/2011 22:37

My mother is very similar.
Its all about her.
Manipulative
Scapegoating
critical
Manic depressive
Aggressive
..and now getting dementia.... and has hit me from behind and my father too....a toxic woman to be sure.

hariboegg · 10/05/2011 22:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

scotsgirl23 · 11/05/2011 01:26

And another here with a probable NPD mother who I now have no contact with. Everything has to be all about her, all the time. I got married quite young (20) and my hen night was just a couple of days away with the bridesmaids, very low key. My workmates got wind of this and arranged a surprise hen do for me locally - it was basically just me, them, and my bridesmaids who were all around same age. My mother went INSANE that she wasn't invited - totally and utterly crazy, screamed and swore down the phone at my now DH about how "the hen night is about the mother", how I'd never love him as much as he loved me, etc etc. She didn't come to my wedding because I wouldn't apologise for hurting her.

Had no contact for years but got back in touch when her sister died (and I was pregnant with my DD) - she was, yet again, a nightmare. I had hyperemesis - I must have inherited it from her. I had bad SPD - she phoned my brother crying about how awful she felt because she had hip problems so maybe it came from her. When DD was born, she started asking me every time she saw me how my stomach was (she's a major weight hater, and I gained 4 stone.) She tried to tell me I couldn't possibly be the bra size I am because I couldn't have a smaller back size then her. When I refused to let her measure me she snuck up behind me with a measuring tape, lasoo-ed me like some sort of cow, measured diagonally over my clothes with me bent double trying to push her off and then was extremely triumphant in declaring that I measured 35" (I'm a 30 back, measured in Bravissimo and not kidding myself in the slightest, she was just being a bitch!)

After she started going on about how I was not to feed my daughter any of my home baking ever because I would make her fat, I finally gave up. I cut her out again and haven't spoken to her in about 9 months. She turned up on the doorstep with christmas presents, unannounced, then played hard done to to everyone she could find when she couldn't come in. I have 2 brothers, and her normal tactic was to play us all against each other - the golden child and scapegoat roles are reallocated according to preference.

It's utterly exhausting.

MizzyWizzyDizzy · 11/05/2011 08:55

"She is now retired and has no real friends or interests. She is constantly at her GP for anxiety / depression (counselling didn't work.) LOVES her GP as he gives her loads of attention. She does have some real health concerns but hams them up e.g. if anyone else has the same diagnosis, it's so much worse for her etc etc. If anyone mentions an illness she has to turn the conversation to her own ailments."

Bothe my parents hve turned out like this since retirement Odille...for me I would say this is the usual pattern for people like this.

Also as they have no friends and no social skills they have turned to their children (me and my siblings) to fill the void of social interation.

In fact they have maniplated things so that without realising it us adult children all have/did revert to child mode...ie we all backtracked our independant adult role to teen mode.

I am back to independant adult role so hence the no contact....my siblings are still in teen mode and I have a feeling things will be like this forever now.

The competition for the crown of 'goldenchild' is too hard for them to step away from. Sad

AttilaTheMeerkat · 11/05/2011 09:06

Odille,

re your comment:-

"She is now retired and has no real friends or interests. She is constantly at her GP for anxiety / depression (counselling didn't work.) LOVES her GP as he gives her loads of attention. She does have some real health concerns but hams them up e.g. if anyone else has the same diagnosis, it's so much worse for her etc etc. If anyone mentions an illness she has to turn the conversation to her own ailments."

I could apply pretty much the above to my MIL who also has no friends nor anything much in the way of social skills. This woman has never had any close female friends - nor has wanted them. Not at all surprised to read that counselling was not successful; narcs also do not proceed at all well with any therapy even if they do decide on therapy in the first place (which they often don't).

MyHipsHurt · 11/05/2011 10:13

OP, If you decide to remain in contact with her now you've had your baby, you should be very cautious if you allow her to look after your baby on her own. So far she has completely ignored your wishes with regard to your own health and is likely to ignore any requests you have about how you would like your baby to be looked after; she will no doubt do it 'her way'

How I wish that I had stood up to my own 'mother' when I let her look after my DCs. I was hoping that I would see some kind of maternal instinct come through towards my DCs, the kind of love that she never showed to me. It never happened. She seemed to get a kick out of deliberately ignoring my requests: It's clear to me know that she was refusing to acknowledge me as an adult and a parent myself. She's clever enough to also realise that I would soon start making connections about her parenting skills compared to my own.

Don't put too many layers on baby when in the pram - she put 8 blankets on him and laughed in my face when I unwrapped him.

Please don't leave baby out in the sun. She did.

Please never leave DC in his buggy alone when you go out shopping. She left him at the other end of the garden centre whilst she went to pay for a plant. But there seemed to be a nice lady hanging around, so that was OK wasn't it?

Her: 'I will stay here in the shop and look after both DCs whilst you go upstairs to have a look around'. Came back 10 minutes later and she'd disappeared with both DCs. I didn't know whether she'd got both DCs with her or not. It took me 20mins of frantically running down the street and in and out of other shops to try and find them. I will never forget the look of pleasure on her face at seeing my distress, that little smirk that says it all, but is so easily denied.

We left our first DC with her for one night. We ended up in casualty within an hour of returning home as it was quite obvious he had severe tonsilitis and couldn't swallow his milk. She doesn't 'do' illness, unless of course it is her own, for which she can talk about it for years after the event.

I would never, ever leave my kids with her unless me or DH were constantly there, which now is extremely unlikely.

serajen · 11/05/2011 10:33

Another one here, all the classic narc behaviour described in the posts resonating loudly. For self-preservation I have avoided as much contact as possible with narc mother for many years, see her on a very limited basis and my stomach turns over when I'm in her presence. Nothing we can do to change the hand we've been dealt I guess, the only change we can make is in our reaction.

Here's my list:

Illness in her children was always a complete inconvenience and she used to get very irritable if we were poorly.

Everyone else is "so lucky" that they have things: money, possessions, a car, etc, no acknowledgement that most people work their hands to the bone for years to achieve anything. She spent all our years growing up sponging off her own mother, who raised us, never stuck with a job/man for any length of time.

Hates men and instilled that in us daughters from a very young age.

We walked on egg shells every day, never knew what frame of mind/mood she would be in when we came home from school, if she'd decided to take to her bed we had to be very quiet so as not to disturb her

Has NEVER said sorry in her life and takes no responsibility for consequences of her actions and how others have been affected

Everything is always someone else's fault, never hers

Has always done the golden child / scapegoat thing

God, I could go on ....

Good to know we have a place here to let rip