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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

For those with a narc mother (long, rambling)

167 replies

Odille · 10/05/2011 15:39

I know I shouldn't expect any different from her. I'm here for a rant and a bit of hand-holding if I'm honest. It'd just be good to hear from others who actually understand what life with a narc mother is like. Also, any tips for support e.g. weblinks or books would be appreciated.

Backstory:
I'm basically middle aged but only realised my mother had narc traits in the past couple of years. I can now see the typical pattern of our relationship through childhood / adolescence / adulthood. I've recently become better at setting boundaries and actually walked out of her home after she said something particularly nasty. I'd done the "if you keep talking about me like that I'm leaving" threat and carried it through.

Anyway, I've just had a fight with her. Probably the first time I've spoken truthfully to her about my feelings if I'm honest (I've a very superficial relationship with her.) Basically, during my recent pg I have tried to have the typical mum/daughter experience that outsiders expect. Several times she has taken things that she knows I want to be kept private and told others. Last year it was a miscarriage, I have told only very close friends who I knew would be supportive, she has told the local gossipy types that ensure everyone knows (i.e. people who don't even know me.) I was very clear afterward and during the subsequent pg that the only message to give out to others is "Odille is fine, the baby is fine, give her a call if you want to chat (i.e. know more.) I was clear that I am private about certain things, that I'm telling her things I don't want spread any further. (I know. Why did I try?) So last week I gave birth and in a fog of morphine mentioned things that I would have normally kept private. And of course it's all out there and in Chinese whispers fashion has become more dramatic than the reality with people calling to hear about my "horrendous birth" - not in a supportive way but in a gossipy way. So, I'm annoyed with myself for mentioning any details, but also told her in no uncertain terms that I can't believe after all the previous conversations that she still won't accept that it's my decision to decide who knows what. She doesn't get it at all, actually said that she knew I'd have told C (my best friend since childhood who also gave birth recently) so it's hardly a secret. When I said that I want to concentrate on the happy event of having a baby rather than dissecting a birth story with random callers who last phoned to hear the gory details about the misc her response was "women like to know these things". She wouldn't accept that just because someone asks for details doesn't mean they have to be given. (She's told enough details that people are calling me to hear the rest.)

So, she's not talking to me (yes!) and I know I'll be painted as The Bad Daughter but as I've worn that crown so often that's fine.

My partner thinks I should just ignore it for a quiet life and behave as though nothing's happened. (That's his style for emotional stuff.) Her style is to not talk about things but seethe silently so she'll not mention it again. (E.g. she could ignore me for months on end as a child if I did the wrong thing, ignoring birthdays etc while she was annoyed and until I worked out what I'd done wrong and was suitably ostracised.)

Anyone else been there?
Thanks for reading.

OP posts:
ScaredOfCows · 11/05/2011 10:53

It's interesting hearing about the scapgoating/golden child thing. I'm an only child, so obviously didn't experience that with a sibling although maybe she did it to an extent with my Dad - sometimes he was in favour and I was the 'bad one' sometimes the other way around.

She has almost always had some kind of substitute daughter she compared me (unfavourably) too. When I was a child it was usually the daughter of someone who lived nearby, until she realised that the were fallible too. She used to try to make me dress like them, get my hair cut like them.... As an adult, well the latest one ("lovely woman/family, takes her mum on holiday several times a year you know, nothing is too much trouble") has just moved house out of the area, so my Mum is quite disappointed about that (was her next door neighbour), and will no doubt be on the look out for a new one.

thisishowifeel · 11/05/2011 11:34

Mine ALWAYS had a baddy, I mean a total and complete obsession with a single person who was the root of all evil in the world.

Often they would start out as her best friend ever, ever, ever, and perfect in every way, then would fail to live up to expectations and become the devil incarnate. Obviously I am the devil incarnate now, and have been since I first broke contact eight years ago.

The thing that gets me, looking back, is how very patient people were with her. People have since told me, that they thought both my parents to be super arrogant and weird nutjobs.

This seems to be more of a BPD trait, so these days I think of her as "cluster B". I believe the traits commonly overlap, and black and white thinking is very common.

RubberDuck · 11/05/2011 12:28

"Everyone else is "so lucky" that they have things"

This resonates for me so much. My mother goes on and on like a broken record about how "lucky" I am to have a husband who helps out, to have a nice house etc. But she says it in the tone of voice of "you don't deserve this" or implying I'm selfish and lazy. Never any sense of being pleased for her only child to be doing well in life.

Also have the divide and conquer thing. Ds1 is the golden child and my ds2 gets very left out and often scapegoated. Apparently ds2 is very like me when I was a child. That explains a lot.

She is incapable of ever admitting she has ever done anything wrong and will not speak to me for long periods of time if I don't back down and apologise yet I can't actually remember a time she's ever said the "sorry" word.

There are huge rifts in the family, I've missed out on a lot of relationships with them because if I am in touch at any point she either declares that I'm some sort of traitor and it turns into a godawful row or silent treatment, or she'll chip away slowly pointing out all the faults of that family member to make them look terrible and her better.

I really struggled to make friends growing up and one of the main reasons I can now see is she used to tell me how bad I was at making friends. Anytime I did bring a friend home all their flaws would be paraded in front of me and "I can't understand why you seem to be a magnet for all these weirdos. Can't you have some normal friends." Her greatest triumph was the engineering of a permanent rift between me and my best friend at high school.

She'll constantly put people down in a joky way and you can never call her on it because then you are "overreacting", "oversensitive" and "can't take a joke".

Trying very hard not to feel bitter.

PrincessJas · 11/05/2011 12:29

I wonder if my Mum is Narc - the "daughters of narcissistic mothers" website was a real eye opener. My Mum doesn't have all the traits but I am definately the golden child and my brother the scapegoat.

If she say things to my DS, like "Don't do that or you'll get me into trouble" and such phrases is this another tendency of Narc mothers?

I did start a thread but no replies so far :-( But this thread has really given me advice. I am not sure my Mum is as far gone as some of the others, but maybe that's because I am the "Golden Child" - until of course I don't do what she wants or she isn't centre of attention or she doesn't get her own way. Then all hell breaks loose! Initially I did wonder if she had dementia in order to explain her abusive outbursts and so blamed myself for not supporting her, but I am beginning to think that this is all part of the 'game'....

RubberDuck · 11/05/2011 12:33

Just remembered something else: I used to fantasize as a kid that I was an orphan Blush Regularly wrote short stories in class about a child whose parents were dead or otherwise indisposed. It was all subconscious I think because it wasn't until I was much older (late teens) that I started to realise how toxic she was and only very recently as an adult realised that it wasn't my fault.

The one really good thing about my mother now though is that she's really not that interested. She'll go abroad for months at a time before deciding that actually she'd like some attention now and engineers some upset or other. At the moment I've had over a couple of month's breather - it's been lovely!

thisishowifeel · 11/05/2011 13:02

I used to fantasise about being an orphan too.

Their ability to engineer situations and rifts is astonishing. I ended up reading about cults and cult leaders to try and get some insight into how they manage to manipulate so many people. It seems to be their life work to manipulate conflicts....I suppose it gives them thir sense of power.

My god I am so well rid. Thank you to everyone on this thread for affirming and confirming lots of things for me. Her in the normal world it's easy to forget and start thinking that maybe it wasn't so bad.....it was, it was worse.

Although I do have a series of emails that she sent my dh over a period of months. It's funny, everything she accused me of, is what she is. Ah, projection.....turns you into mystic meg once you get the hang of it!

jellyvodkas · 11/05/2011 13:18

Re: My post 12 up . . . . .Have been dwelling on my mother a lot today...dont know what to to except somewhat turn the other cheek when she is rude to me or snaps at me. I bump into my parents in town regularly and its nice to see my Dad, but ....
I only bother with her because I want to see Dad , who is 83 and has heart failure. He has been a great loving father and so patient and so kind.
She is going to be hard work/nightmare when he dies...and being the nearest person to her I will have to look after her.

Its horrid to say, but if she dies first it would be better as my Dad is emotionally much more together than her. She is an emotional wreck !
God, I wish I had "An apple pie mum" who loved me and was kind and loving and supportive.
I should turn my back on her,,,,but I just cant.

jellyvodkas · 11/05/2011 13:20

She has never forgiven me for divorcing my husband in 1994 ....!
I am paying for it, till her dying day. !!!

MizzyWizzyDizzy · 11/05/2011 13:25

"She'll constantly put people down in a joky way and you can never call her on it because then you are "overreacting", "oversensitive" and "can't take a joke". "

Yes, yes, yes RubberDuck...my whole family are experts at this...sarcastic, back handed compliments and sly digs.

Oh and I also get told how 'lucky' I am...and then in the next breath get told I'm living my whole life 'wrong'!!

Bliddy loonies the lot of 'em!

RubberDuck · 11/05/2011 13:27

I am dreading my mother getting elderly and needing looking after. I'm an only child - it's going to be all down to me and I can't see any way out.

TheCrackFox · 11/05/2011 13:30

My mum is retiring in 5 months and I am dreading it.

She has no friends (she doesn't like women) no hobbies (apart from memorizing the Daily Mail everyday, and a catalogue of self inflicted medical conditions.

jellyvodkas · 11/05/2011 13:33

Rubber duck and TheCrackfox ...lets send them all off to switzerland for a leathal injection....then we can inherit their will and enjoy life a bit!!!!!.

jellyvodkas · 11/05/2011 13:34

This week I was called 'A selfish bitch" because I was using my dads car for work for two hours, which he said was totally fine.....

And she has her own car... so whats the problem?

TheCrackFox · 11/05/2011 13:35

Won't work - she is a devout Catholic so she thinks people that willingly take their own life will burn in hell forever.

Sigh.

bustersmummy · 11/05/2011 13:35

Mizzy - my gran used to call it a joke with a jag.

She did once call my mother on how she was treating me.

She told gran "But D is The One. He is just The One" (D being my now alcoholic brother)

MizzyWizzyDizzy · 11/05/2011 13:35

Sad I've been disinherited...no party for me! Angry Grin

Tourelles · 11/05/2011 13:35

Another one...awful selfish mother, often told me I was a 'mistake' etc, more recently when I split (my choice) with DP she also wanted to know everything that was going on, was totally unsupportive of me, some comments that spring to mind -ranted on about how 'wonderful' the ex was - ie 'good provider, good father', 'oh he'd never have you back, but I suppose you want to get back with him now', 'you are not getting any younger' last time I visited and ex and I were about to go to mediation, she shoved me an article about mediation and said you had better read this, then went on to ask who paid the mortgage blah blah (told her I did, which I do) she refused to beleive me and asked if I had evidence to show at mediation...WTF!! I then stopped contact with her for a couple of months. Resumed contact, for DD's sake I want a 'superficial' relationship, but this does not work, she fell out with ex, now accuses me of 'his influence' driving a wedge between me and the family. Hilarious when he could do no wrong for the duration of our separation. Ex and I have reconcilled, which she has obviously heard. last tel call told me I was 'stuck in a rut...or is that a groove with my manulipitive ex'. Lied about speaking to my best friend. Crazy.

p.s, she sounds a bit like your's BustersMummy!

bustersmummy · 11/05/2011 13:38

Tourelles - just before I stopped contact, she told me that although she would support me from splitting from him, if I changed my mind and got back with him, nothing would make her happier Confused

So of course, my relationship with my XH is all about her and what she wants.

Manipulative and controlling, my mother is the expert.

Tourelles · 11/05/2011 13:39

oh yes, brother (alcoholic, prostitue using prat) can do NO wrong. Nor can generally lovely sister. None of them speak to me now as I imagine she has lied to them about what I have said. I am defn the scapegoat of a narc mother.

Allalone0 · 11/05/2011 13:39

WOW at how many others have lived with narc mums, just like me.

I have given up talking about her in RL and how I hate her, cos I get gasps from peeps and told that i shouldnt feel/think like that about MY MUM, cos shes your mother, right!!!

'She deserves respect and cares about you, really'. I have tried to believe that maybe she does care about me, but what i have been through recently and jkust looking back on my life and her behaviours in the past.
Honestly im thinking she DOESNT care about me.
As the way she has/is behaving is NOT the way a mother behaves.
Mothers are loving, caring, giving beings and who love you UNCONDITIONALLY.

In the past if I have ever tried to voice my feelings/opinions of her I have had my siblings shouting me down, calling me ungrateful and cruel for saying stuff about her, because IN THEIR EYES she is so great. And has done so much for us.
They dont see that maybe my experience with her (me being eldest child) may well be different to their exp of her.

Its got to the point where if she died tomorow, it wouldnt make any difference to me. Because shes NEVER REALLY THERE for me anyway. Not physically or emotionally.
Which is why i have distanced myself from her completely, dont chat/ discuss or disclose what im thinking/doing.

MizzyWizzyDizzy · 11/05/2011 13:39

Horrible isn't it bustersmummy...no wonder we all have self esteem issues...we were raised on continuous negative attacks.

Good on your Gran for at least trying to address the issue.

bustersmummy · 11/05/2011 13:41

The thing is, it's very subtle and you need a switch in your brain to go "on" to see it, or something.

Like the example above - as far as she's concerned, she was being supportive.

But what she was doing was telling me that she wanted me to get back with my ex, and making my relationship and the decisions I made about that relationship part of her life and all about her?

I'm not explaining this very well.

jellyvodkas · 11/05/2011 13:41

Yeah same here with a mother who was never there for me in any way.
She has never given me a penny.
Because of the way she has treated me in my upbringing I now realise why I have gone for critical, intolerant, self centred males....cos, its what I think is the norm and ok.
Its taken me 23 yrs to see thats its no ok.

bustersmummy · 11/05/2011 13:42

Mizzy - I'm disinherited too Grin

Allalone0 · 11/05/2011 13:42

Like others on here, I have a concrete example of how not to do it. I just do the opposite of what she did with me in regards to my dcs, and I think my dcs agree with me, when I say that I am a Damn good Mum!!! :)