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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

For those with a narc mother (long, rambling)

167 replies

Odille · 10/05/2011 15:39

I know I shouldn't expect any different from her. I'm here for a rant and a bit of hand-holding if I'm honest. It'd just be good to hear from others who actually understand what life with a narc mother is like. Also, any tips for support e.g. weblinks or books would be appreciated.

Backstory:
I'm basically middle aged but only realised my mother had narc traits in the past couple of years. I can now see the typical pattern of our relationship through childhood / adolescence / adulthood. I've recently become better at setting boundaries and actually walked out of her home after she said something particularly nasty. I'd done the "if you keep talking about me like that I'm leaving" threat and carried it through.

Anyway, I've just had a fight with her. Probably the first time I've spoken truthfully to her about my feelings if I'm honest (I've a very superficial relationship with her.) Basically, during my recent pg I have tried to have the typical mum/daughter experience that outsiders expect. Several times she has taken things that she knows I want to be kept private and told others. Last year it was a miscarriage, I have told only very close friends who I knew would be supportive, she has told the local gossipy types that ensure everyone knows (i.e. people who don't even know me.) I was very clear afterward and during the subsequent pg that the only message to give out to others is "Odille is fine, the baby is fine, give her a call if you want to chat (i.e. know more.) I was clear that I am private about certain things, that I'm telling her things I don't want spread any further. (I know. Why did I try?) So last week I gave birth and in a fog of morphine mentioned things that I would have normally kept private. And of course it's all out there and in Chinese whispers fashion has become more dramatic than the reality with people calling to hear about my "horrendous birth" - not in a supportive way but in a gossipy way. So, I'm annoyed with myself for mentioning any details, but also told her in no uncertain terms that I can't believe after all the previous conversations that she still won't accept that it's my decision to decide who knows what. She doesn't get it at all, actually said that she knew I'd have told C (my best friend since childhood who also gave birth recently) so it's hardly a secret. When I said that I want to concentrate on the happy event of having a baby rather than dissecting a birth story with random callers who last phoned to hear the gory details about the misc her response was "women like to know these things". She wouldn't accept that just because someone asks for details doesn't mean they have to be given. (She's told enough details that people are calling me to hear the rest.)

So, she's not talking to me (yes!) and I know I'll be painted as The Bad Daughter but as I've worn that crown so often that's fine.

My partner thinks I should just ignore it for a quiet life and behave as though nothing's happened. (That's his style for emotional stuff.) Her style is to not talk about things but seethe silently so she'll not mention it again. (E.g. she could ignore me for months on end as a child if I did the wrong thing, ignoring birthdays etc while she was annoyed and until I worked out what I'd done wrong and was suitably ostracised.)

Anyone else been there?
Thanks for reading.

OP posts:
bustersmummy · 11/05/2011 14:16

Rubberduck - that's exactly what it's like and that's why it works so well for them. To try to explain it sounds petty. A lot of what they do is about tone and circumstances, it's the how it's said rather than the actual words?

I'm rambling. Sorry.

MizzyWizzyDizzy · 11/05/2011 14:16

For all those still in the throws of their engulfments....it will get better...just keep doing what you are doing...the most powerful thing you can do for yourselves is talk to those who understand and who will validate your reality.

This is such a hard journey at it goes against all the teachings of the society we live and now and the ones before...we as a whole are ingrained to never speak ill of our parents...the reality is not all parents are nice or kind...just keep going everyone, honestly this journey will empower you more than you'll ever know. xx

bustersmummy · 11/05/2011 14:17

Well said mizzy.

Allalone0 · 11/05/2011 14:18

Thats the problem, just like you i cant talk abt her with any1 in RL as they just dont understand. Peeps only understand if they have been through it themselves (just like the ones on here).

Thats why other than professionsal i dont talk abt her to any1 not even my own siblings.
She is a hero in their eyes.

Odille · 11/05/2011 14:19

Thanks everyone for posting your stories here, it has given me some perspective and I feel a lot better now. I am still thinking that I shouldn't have let her visit me while in hospital and then she wouldn't have seen certain things that led to certain questions... (I hadn't intended to have her visit til I was home, again I blame the morphine, lovely stuff that it was though Smile) But that's ignoring the core issue.

Anyway, a lot of the details that others have posted have really hit home. The size / weight / clothes thing is something I haven't thought about in years. My mum was insanely critical of weight when I was growing up. Not so much directly about me as other people, but I got the message. My appearance, if commented on at all, well it was negative comments only. My hair apparently looked like "rats tails hanging out of a midden bin". That phrase was used a lot. I was also denied clothes. I got a Saturday job and started buying my own. She didn't like that much. There was no way she would buy bras or sanitary towels for me, looking back I can see that growing up and becoming my own person was a bad thing to do. I also hid my teenage (and probably anorexic) body under massive sweatshirts. It makes me wonder how much other stuff's waiting to be uncovered if I keep digging / reading / thinking about it all.

thisishowifeel
I used to keep my size 8 body shrouded under trackies and giant jumpers too.

MyHipsHurt
Interesting point about clothes. I was denied any, apart from my school uniform plus one poloneck and a pinafore dress. That was it for years, until I got myself a part-time job, whilst still at school, to pay for my own. Oh sorry I forgot,she bought me one bra, which was a deeply humiliating shopping experience, never to be repeated even when I needed a bigger size. Meanwhile she was glamorous as ever with a full wardrobe of stylish clothes to choose from.

Thanks again to everyone for getting involved with this thread.

OP posts:
RubberDuck · 11/05/2011 14:19

I don't know - I should look into free counselling maybe. Except we're not badly off, iyswim, just stupidly built up some debt. I would feel guilty taking that resource from someone who really needed it who genuinely did have nothing.

Going to clear this debt then start a savings fund just for counselling I think. This thread has made me realise that I do need to do something to put a clear line under this.

Allalone0 · 11/05/2011 14:25

Scaredof yes it does hurt, deeply. :(

Because as a human, we all need love and affection.
At times i want to hug her, but because im not used to her ever doing it, i just dont seem to be able to do it.
It has pained me for years cos shes not the way i felt a mother should be.

thisishowifeel · 11/05/2011 14:27

It is impossible to talk about inreal life, people just can't compute this stuff.

It gets me most before christmas, when I see mums and daughters shopping together and overhearing snippets of conversations of them planning family christmases. Of course I know that isn't necessarily an accurate assessment, but it bring home the lonliness and desolation of not having a family, and my kids not having an extended family of grannies and aunties etc.

It's utterly heartbreaking, and there is nothing I can do but carry on being strong in my own world and my own family.

Social services actually stated that I should keep my dc's well away from my family.

sweetkitty · 11/05/2011 14:29

Another one her no contact for over 2 years now.

Apparently everything is my fault because I was a know it all madam as a child, too independent, made her feel she was beneath me, made her feel useless as a mother compared to goldenchild brother who was "slow" and needed her.

Like others I could spend an eternity describing nasty things she has said or done, all since denied of course, if I ever tried to raise any ot it it was all me flying off the handle.

Never cuddled or shown praise but to everyone else I was a wonderful daughter, first in the family to go to uni, big house?, wonderful children. She has a real thing about men being better than women in that she told me I musn't earn more than DH, must give him a son or he would leave me. She had this real thing about having one of each sex as it's about the only success (!) she can boast about. Told me once you are only a real woman if you can have sons. Cooed over DD1, ignored DD2. Irony is she now has the precious grandson and she has never clapped eyes on him.

We never had a big falling out, I just started putting as much effort in to our relationship as she did (none at all). Months went by and she wrote me a letter saying that whatever I thought she had done life is too short, I explained in length what she had done and that's when I got it's all my fault letter back. I gave up after that.

I do not miss her toxic presence in my life but really miss a Mother and a Gran for my DC Sad

Fimbo · 11/05/2011 14:35

My mother used to really embarrass me by telling anyone who would listen that they "didn't really know me and to just wait". Luckily my dh is ace and shot her down in flames the first time she said it to him.

mosschops30 · 11/05/2011 14:35

I can relate to the present thing. My mother expects the ultimate present (of her choosing) for birthday/mothers day etc, she gives no thought to price. However when its me or her gcs she will put money in my bank, expect me to say thank you at least twice, and ask me to get something!
It really annoys me that she just cant be arsed, but we have to be for her.

Shes not charming to others, she is embarrassingly rude to waiting staff or people on checkouts, to the point where it ruins any trip out. In fact i find her generally rude.

I was an only child but she does favour dd and is not interested in the ds's at all. She also enjoys telling dd inappropriate stories about me, or just inappropriate stories in general.

Allalone0 · 11/05/2011 14:36

Sweetkitty mine also had and still does have athing abt boys being better than girls. My ex is better than me. When i was preg 1st time round she was so adamant that i shouldnt have a girl, bcos they just get married and leave you.
I have a dd but my mum doesnt seem too bothered with her. My dd feels sometimes that her nan doesnt 'like her'. and so feels :(

I so wanted her to be a mother to me (cos you Only have One, dont you?) and a gran to my dc's.
But i try to overcome the bit abt mum, by trying to be the mum to my dc's that i never had. I feel it helps me to actively do something to try and aid my healing.

MizzyWizzyDizzy · 11/05/2011 14:36

I think I am lucky, I do have people in RL who see my family for who they are...sad thing is they are also entrenched in families like mine.

mosschops30 · 11/05/2011 14:38

She also tells anyone who will listen that shes scared of me Hmm and so is everyone else.
She doesnt understand why i have sympathy for patients (real sick people) but none for her (has everything going, but in reality has never even had an operation or anything rmotely serious, i think shed be overjoyed to have cancer, just imagine the sympathy)

ChiddelyPie · 11/05/2011 14:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Odille · 11/05/2011 14:42

Substitute daughters! Oh another thing Id forgotten about. It feels like every other female of the right age had a spell of being her substitute daughter.

I was given so many mixed messages about what she wanted from a daughter.

There are people who to this day think I was a nightmare teenager because of the stories she told them about me and I can't (for whatever reason) tell them the truth.

She also insisted that I would be a "career woman" and would not marry or have children. The message was clear - she was not happy as a wife-and-mother, she had so many opportunities (er, really?) and would have done things differently if she could have. Victim mentality of course there as well. Bloody hell it's all coming to the surface now.

OP posts:
MizzyWizzyDizzy · 11/05/2011 14:43

I'm curious...

...if anyone is lurking (as I often do!) or has posted but reached the end of their journey....how do you know when you are 'finished'??

How do you feel about the 'difficult' people?
Do they still make you react?
Do you still feel angry/hurt/upset about your past?
Do you still 'hanker' for the mother/sister/brother/father/friend that you wished they'd be?

How will I know when I am 'done'?

LooloosMummy · 11/05/2011 14:46

another one here, i didn't realise my mum was a narc until i read this thread, i just thought there wasn't something quite right but couldn't put my finger on it! definatly resonate with the weight, and clothes she's always even now sniping about my weight and oh what are you wearing, she can't say i look nice.
never gives any affection, kicked me out of home and said she did it for me... but lets Dsis and DB stay living at home.
has no friends because she's always sniping and bitching about people behind their backs. but is perfectly happy to let me make friends then move in and (this sounds childish) take them away, but she tries to cut me out and puts herself in the frined position i was in. until she stops talking to them.
she cut nearly every family member out of our lives as kids growing up and if we see them now sits bitching and moaning when they are out of earshot.
she hates the fact i talk to my aunt and uncle on her side without her permission, and nearly 'outed' her self when my aunt sent me a jumper i swear i could see steam coming from her ears!

i'll stop rambling now! but definatly agree with the not being able to talk about it in RL as everyone looks at you like your exagerating!

Allalone0 · 11/05/2011 14:49

Chiddelypie reading your post abt your ds hand getting trapped, gets me thinking abt how when my dd sprained her ankle while in the supervision of my mum and sis. When they brought her back to me, they never cared to tell me what had ahappended and when.

She was drooped outsied my house and dd was limping as she walked into hoouse. When i looked her ankle was massive. I foned sis to find out how long it had been like that, so i could judge whether to take her to a&e straigt away as it was abt 9pm on sat night or wait till morn, instead i got my sis becoming defnsive and blaming my dd for spraining it.

I felt her reaction was strange and was ever so calmly trying to explain im not blaminmg any1 just wanna know facts. Then next day sis i get a whole load of abuse from sis saying how i would be thinking they did it on purpose and how ungrateful i was that she had taken my dd out with her and she will never offer to do that again...WTF.

Seems my sis is turning into my mum!!!

Allalone0 · 11/05/2011 14:55

I have also resigned myself to thinking and behaving as i want to, just to make myself happy as, 'shes never gonna accept or approve of me' no matter what i do so i may aswell make 'myself' happy at the very least.

MyHipsHurt · 11/05/2011 15:17

Mizzy, I'm wondering all of those things as well. Even though I've gone NC for several months, it doesn't ever really go away. I often wonder will I only get peace of mind once she'd dead? But I'm not sure I will. I also wonder if I should really tell her how I feel either face to face or in a letter, but looking at the advice on here, it comes back down again to me accepting that she really is not bothered how I feel, only how she feels, and that's still a really hard thing to accept about a 'mother'. Even a mention of her name nearly has me running for the hills...

Yes I am still VERY angry, hurt and upset about my childhood (lack of it) and I'm in my late 40s!

I would love for it to be all over with, I try to concentrate on my lovely DCs and DH but the DCs are a constant reminder at the age they are now, when my 'mother' was at her worst and it is so hard - it's like living my childhood all over again - difficult to explain but there are so many trigger memories of what she purposely DIDN'T do for me and as a mother myself it's even harder to reconcile her actions now I know what a mother should feel for her kids.

Hope all that makes sense.

ScaredOfCows · 11/05/2011 15:24

I feel sorry for mine, as much as I feel hurt and angry and guilty, I also feel sorry for her. I would like her to be happy, to appreciate my Dad, to appreciate her home etc, to enjoy her life.

ChiddelyPie · 11/05/2011 15:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RubberDuck · 11/05/2011 15:52

Chiddely - that makes perfect sense. I've been well trained and can half-destroy myself worrying about stuff after the event now without my mother having to say a word.

I think I'm definitely working through some kind of grief response at losing the mother I never really had. Currently oscillating between anger and denial, I guess.

I would like to work towards acceptance - not to expect anything from her, so not ever have to feel disappointed and have a very superficial and distant relationship. I'm not sure how realistic that is though, or whether she'll even allow that.

MizzyWizzyDizzy · 11/05/2011 15:56

Hi MyHipsHurt

I'm what you would call early 40's so am roughly the same age as you....it was the ladies on this thread saying how they wished their mother was/is different to who they really are that got me wondering.

As you I am still fearful of any confrontation with my family (but am getting less fearful everyday), but I am no longer angry or wish/expect them to be anything other than what they are. I have always been more fearful than angry with them.

I think that's why I was 'joking' with bustersmummy about my families behaviour, because for the first time ever it's as if I'm watching a bad movie rather than taking part in the movie....it's as if I'm on the outside looking in at all the nonsense but don't feel effected by it any more.

As an example, this week I have discovered that my siblings have filled the void left by my no contact and are rallying around the 'victims' of my nastiness in a truly supportive fashion. Now, I thought when this event happened - mystic meg moment it always happens this way - it would be like other times and I would feel excluded.

When it came to it the only emotion I actually felt when realising my void had been filled...was relief....pure and unadulterated relief.

In fact I couldn't stop grinning all day at the thought of finally being free, I have my privacy back, I have my intuition back, I have my emotional strength back and what on earth was I going to do with the rest of my life....it felt like being let out of prison or something...like a bird who had suddenly discovered they could fly...nobody cared about me and what I was up to...yippee!

Through this thread I've realised although I have the instinct the protect my DC's from my family it's not done in anger...it's done as a straightforward sensible choice...and when I explain to my DC's the whys and wherefores of my no contact it is done with an element of sadness that it has come to this....but no anger.

There is another thread on here asking what a lady should do re visiting an abusive family member in hospital (intensive care)...it made me realise that if this was my family I don't think I would care one way or another as to visiting...tbh I don't think I would visit as I just couldn't be bothered to get entangled with it all again. I seem to have become apathetic about them all on an emotional level.

I don't know..is this it...have I worked through the emotional detachment...was I ever really attached, like some adopted children? Did their early neglect of me lead to me not attaching to them properly...did I just have such low self-esteem that I was brainwashed into believing that I needed their 'approval' when the real emotional love never existed??

I dunno...so many questions.....Confused