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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Newbie - desperate for impartial advice!

237 replies

Kimberjem · 16/04/2011 23:49

Hi, new poster here, have lurked for a while and could really do with some impartial advice. After a really rocky two year relationship we have come to a crunch point whether to really commit or to call it quits.
My partner is separated from his wife but not divorced, he insists that she will never consent to divorce so it is another two years minimum (they were separated 3 months when we got together). He has 3 children with her from 18 - 10. I have never met his children nor do they know I exist and from what I understand aside from when he first moved out there has been no conversation with the children about why their parents have split up nor any clarity about the future.
His wife knows about me but doesn't want my name mentioned around her and also pretends I don't exist. He has made it clear to me for the past two years that she would like to reconcile. We don't live together, he lives in a flat round the corner from the family home.
I am in my early 30's and he is in his early 40's and I have been clear frm the start of the relationship that I would like a long term committed relationship and ideally to have a child, he has said all along that he isn't sure either way so it's not a no or a yes.
By his own admission he was a pretty poor husband a father, he has a job that means he flies long haul every week and is really only around weekends. Since he and his wife split he is really trying to be a good father and is really improving his relationship with his children. I absolutely support him in that and never mind when he has to drop our plans because of something to do with the children.
Basically the current situation has become untenable due to lack of time and trying to keep all the facets of his life entirely separate.
So, finally, he is suggesting we move in together and says he will tell his children about me, get more involved in my life etc and that we should decide whether to make a proper go of things. That will also mean me accepting him going on holidays with his estranged wife and their children etc as he wants to be close friends with her. I find the holiday idea particularly uncomfortable, but guess it's ok if best for the children?
I love him very much, he is so intelligent and funny and I really enjoy his company, I also find him so attractive and our sex life is great. We get on very well, but I do find I get so angry and resentful at the fact our relationship has not moved on up to this point.
So, in summary, and thanks if you have got this far, should I just give up hope now that we will actually get to a proper committed relationship or give living together a go and see what happens?

OP posts:
Smum99 · 29/04/2011 12:20

I'm so sad for you - you have been manipulated into fighting for him so you slept with him to 'keep' him.
Now's he feels that's it's out in the open that he's sleeping with his wife he's hoping you'll let the situation continue. He has what he wanted at the start - 2 women.

Please, please do not let this happen - tell a friend in RL, make her delete all his contact details, make her promise to support you if he tries to have contact with you.

We have all have relationships which are damaging for us - this is yours, please get the strength to get away. The right man is out there for you BUT he can't find you whilst you're hung up and being messed about by this cheating twat. Do you believe you can change him?

Kimberjem · 29/04/2011 12:36

Thanks ladies, my best friend is on her way over now! X

OP posts:
waterrat · 29/04/2011 13:59

kimberly - I just read through your whole thread. you were amazing in ending it - you have hit a bump in the road, do NOT judge yourself for it. This man is a liar - and all that happened is he revealed himself to be the self absorbed, lying bastard you suspected in your heart that he was.

No judgement needed to you for sleeping with him - you were a mess - but you will move on. He is a game playing fucker - how wonderful for him, two women dancing around like puppets on a string.

Please, please, see this as a brilliant lesson for you - you made the mistake early on, of course you slept with him, but now - move on and be grateful he revealed the truth to you by making it clear what an arse he is.

There is a beautiful life ahead of you here - one with a man who appreciates and loves you. I would suggest you start seeing a counsellor to ask why you were attracted to this mans shit behaviour for so long.

xxx

ChippingInLovesEasterEggs · 29/04/2011 21:54

Arghhhhh... What. Were. You. Thinking? No - don't answer that, I've done equally fucking stupid stuff - I know what you were thinking :( x

I hope you have told your friend everything and she can stop you from sliding down the slippery slope of being his mistress.

HE deserves for you to tell his wife.

His Wife I don't know. I really don't.

What I do know is you deserve so much more than this cocklodger - who calls his WIFE (separated wife I know, but even so) an easy lay - I bet he's saying the same about you to his mates.

No going back!

Kimberjem · 29/04/2011 22:43

Hi ladies,
My best friends know everything and are just desperate for me to be happy and treated well, ex B has had a bit of a breakthrough today where it sounds like he has realised what an utter b**stard he has been to me, his wife/ex his kids etc etc. I think he has come to the realisation that I have been used as a pawn in his marital breakdown and that all that stuff is far from sorted, he doesn't actually want to be with me, and regrets sleeping with me apparently, more because of how selfish it was of him to do it, than anything else. I guess I have been hoping through all of this that I would just get an apology, and whilst I now feel a bit rejected that he doesn't actually want me I feel free to move on iyswim. He wants to see me tomorrow aft for a coffee ti have a chat and am going to do that, but it's all over over now. it's been an ordeal and lesson learnt for me is steer well well clear of anyone unless they are actually divorced or never married! thanks all for continued support. X

OP posts:
Dropdeadfred · 29/04/2011 22:51

For what possible purpose are you meeting him again????

HerHissyness · 29/04/2011 23:44

Ok, what the actual twatting FUCK does he think gives him the right to even breathe on the same continent as you, let alone speak to you and tell you?

HOW DARE HE, after shagging you (more than likely feeding you a pack of lies to do so) having strung you along for YEARS, totally wasted your time, destroyed your self confidence and now he tells you that he REGRETS sleeping with you the other night? I swear, if he were in front of me, I would actually gain the ability of FLIGHT and swoop over and strangle the tosser.

If you meet him for this "coffee and a chat", it won't be to make YOU feel better. This exercise is to make HIM feel better. To assuage HIS guilt. I lead her on, wasted her time, shagged her cos she was needy and desperate for me I could, lied to her, but it's OK now cos I took her out for a coffee...

ARRRRRRGGGGHHHHHHH!

Don't you DARE give him that satisfaction! Don't you DARE meet him for a coffee and a chat.

It's over, IT'S OVER! Save your time, your weekend, your coffee quota for a FRIEND, not this pathetic male-menopausal prick.

It's official. He is now playing you. You meet him for coffee? you are granting him permission to carry on the playing. He is so up himself he could be his own Proctologist.

HerHissyness · 29/04/2011 23:46

"I am too difficult apparently, she is easy."

He wants you to stop making demands and behave like the mistress he has been treating you as, happy to take whatever you can get of him, making no demand on him and meanwhile he gets to play decent, upstanding family man with his long suffering wife and kids.

What a mean manipulative bastard.

lovelabcoats · 30/04/2011 00:19

You are so vulnerable at the moment, please do not meet this man under any circumstances whatsoever and change all your telephone numbers, block your facebook or any social networking sites you belong to and do not open the door to him.

He is someone not to be trusted in any way ever again. If you think it is painful now if you let him remai in your wolrd it could get a lot worse.

ChippingInLovesEasterEggs · 30/04/2011 09:46

I'm sorry he has said this to you because it hurts to hear it :( but in another way I'm pleased he's said it, because you now know, without a doubt how little he thinks of you and hopefully that alone will stop you getting back with him/sleeping with him/being too upset it's over.

I know you will meet him today, no matter what anyone else says, because you need to. You want to see him face to face and you still hope he will apologise. I hope you don't harbour any hopes of a big 'change of heart' and a reconcilliation though :(

Stay strong - tell him how badly he treat you etc.

Let us know how it goes
x

Kimberjem · 30/04/2011 10:05

Thanks ladies, we spoke for a couple of minutes this morning and I can tell you he is a broken man, very tearful (him) has sunk in to him how appallingly he has treated me and he said he was amazed I would even speak to him, he wouldn't if it was the other way round. Its hard to get across the complexities of an individual on here, but I do know it has clicked for him. We aren't getting back together but his acknowledgment and apology is really important to me. He has written everything down and wants to talk me through it. I am then going over to my best friends as we are taking her 3rd old to his first wildlife park, so something to look forward to.

OP posts:
waterrat · 30/04/2011 10:09

please, please keep a realistic head on here. This was not a one off. This man has been caught out and you have seen the truth - but he was being a devious manipulative and selfish man for a VERY VERY long time. He has not suddenly become a different person. He has not suddenly seen things differently.

He was maniupulative and selfish yesterday, he is the same man today.

I'm sorry you are still being played here. Get a bit more righteous anger going on and please try to accept that you have spent a long time with a bad man. I know it would be nicer to think you were with a good man who made a stupid mistake ..thats not the case sadly.

ChippingInLovesEasterEggs · 30/04/2011 10:24

I'm glad you have plans for afterwards - then it has a time limit on it. Ask him to get it all out at this meeting as you are not his counsellor and don't intend to be doing this again. Otherwise he will suck you into being his 'friend'/counsellor/whatever and you wont be able to move on.

It is awful when you love someone and everyone keeps telling you what a bad egg they are, it's hard to hear isn't it :( Especially when you feel like you know the person & they don't. I've been there :( Sadly, 'other people' can actually see the person for what they are much more clearly because they aren't involved...

I feel terrible for you & I really hope that after today you are able to draw a line under it and move forward, but to do this, you will need to tell him to stop ringing you and that he needs to find other friends or a counsellor to help him through the mess he has created! x

Kimberjem · 30/04/2011 10:47

I already have the name and no of an excellent therapist waiting for him! I am not sure there is a therapist in Cheshire that he hasn't seen. I am also going to see someone to repair the damage to me for the past couple of years. Thank you all, partocularly HH and Chipping for sticking with me! X

OP posts:
waterrat · 30/04/2011 10:57

look after yourself and leave him to find his own therapist. you are not his doctor - and if he seriously wants to get help that needs to come from him - you are not impartial and can't possibly give him neutral advice. ...you seem to have been amazing throughout this, but are being too charitable to the man! good luck with everything..x

Kimberjem · 30/04/2011 11:42

Thank you waterrat for your kind words. X

OP posts:
ChippingInLovesEasterEggs · 30/04/2011 21:46

Are you home yet?? How did it go? If he has already seen a lot of therapists, then all of this 'just realising' is complete horseshit, honestly. Yes, it will do you a lot of good to talk to someone to work through why you were so prepared to be treat like his mistress and a dirty, guilty secret when you deserve so much more!

Kimberjem · 01/05/2011 01:08

Sorry should have reported back, all went fine and we have agreed the whole relationship has been toxic for me and that he had to leave me to move on my life and to find someone who can give me everything i want. I feel like the drama is over, calm and parted with care and my anger and resentment has dissipated which is a much better for me. had a fab night with my lovely friends and wildlife park tommorrow so all good. thanks for checking in on me Chipping, I hope you are having a lovely weekend

OP posts:
ChippingInLovesEasterEggs · 01/05/2011 01:27

Well, that all sounds like it went quite well. I hope you can start to feel like it's the 'right' thing, even if it still hurts x

I'm glad you had a good night with your friends.

Have fun tomorrow! :)

Let us know how you are doing!

caramelwaffle · 01/05/2011 01:37

Good luck with everything.

HerHissyness · 01/05/2011 09:01

Glad you feel you have 'closure' of a kind.

Now, you may or may not have realised that this guy is a BS-dealer. top echelons of BS-peddling as it goes. Grin

This therapy proves it, he is USING the good old 'I'm in therapy' tack as a way to blame all his misdemeanours on. He's a manipulative freak, with a therapist in his arsenal! That is so contrived its SCARY! Challenge him on anything and he has the ultimate get out 'Oh did I do that????? My bad, I'll talk it through with my therapist'

You may feel the drama is over. I am somewhat more sceptical. I counsel the removal of all ways for him to contact you, because his ego won't allow you to say, Er, I'm out, you're sacked

NOW is the time to get icy cool yourself, be 100% focussed on yourself and your escape from this poisonous man and his mid-life crisis. Each day he is in your life is a day wasted. If he contacts you, he is ruining your recovery, he is sabotaging your happiness and needs to be treated as such.

He'll do the tears, the anger and the woe is me skits. Be prepared.

Kimberjem · 01/05/2011 14:30

Hi ladies,
just to be clear he isn't having therapymnow but he has done in the past. He has recognised that he isn't equipped orncapable of being in a relationship with me or anyone else, he has only been with me and his wife. He isn't all bad at all, he has just behaved very very badly towards myself and his wife and has realised what terrible damage it's done. For me it's the best way we could have ended because I don't hate him anymore and the anger and resentment has gone he is just a very flawed man who is at the top of his game professionally but can't do relationships, not everyone can. I am happy to feel no anger. I have also asked him to apologise to his wife on my behalf for any pain our relationship caused her as it was so soon after they split, and that finishes all loose ends off for me.Thanks all for helping me through x

OP posts:
HerHissyness · 01/05/2011 19:57

You're defending him... [cwink] careful there KJ

Be on your guard regardless, this insect may not be ready just yet to crawl back under his rock. BTW you did nothing to apologise for AFAICS, the commitment to his wife was HIS, and by the sounds of it, he never really left her.

Kimberjem · 01/05/2011 20:53

yes it was his but I stayed with him when I knew she wanted to sort things out and for the children"s sake and hers I should have walked away, there is obviously a lot still there between them, they were together for over 20 years, and to be honest, if they work things out, which will mean he has to change dramatically then am sure that would be for the best, I know 95% of the responsibility is his. My forgiveness of him is probably a bit selfish because it feels better for me and I have long felt guilty about the pain I have caused her so feels so much better to get it off my chest. when I went to bed last night I felt a weight lifted off my chest because I know it's done and I know it's better for me.

OP posts:
HerHissyness · 02/05/2011 00:28

All that matters now is YOU! You have been off the agenda for so long, I want to hear tales of YOU having fun with your life!

Sweetheart, again YOU didn't cause the pain, she doesn't even know you. HE caused it, HE could have walked away it was HIS kids he let down, HIS wife, HIS life.

Please forgive yourself. You have suffered enough. You should have walked away, but only from the fact that he treated YOU badly. As for them, more fool her if she takes him back. I know I wouldn't. I know my Mum didn't.

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