Newbie - desperate for impartial advice!

[Kimberjem]

Hi, new poster here, have lurked for a while and could really do with some impartial advice. After a really rocky two year relationship we have come to a crunch point whether to really commit or to call it quits.
My partner is separated from his wife but not divorced, he insists that she will never consent to divorce so it is another two years minimum (they were separated 3 months when we got together). He has 3 children with her from 18 - 10. I have never met his children nor do they know I exist and from what I understand aside from when he first moved out there has been no conversation with the children about why their parents have split up nor any clarity about the future.
His wife knows about me but doesn't want my name mentioned around her and also pretends I don't exist. He has made it clear to me for the past two years that she would like to reconcile. We don't live together, he lives in a flat round the corner from the family home.
I am in my early 30's and he is in his early 40's and I have been clear frm the start of the relationship that I would like a long term committed relationship and ideally to have a child, he has said all along that he isn't sure either way so it's not a no or a yes.
By his own admission he was a pretty poor husband a father, he has a job that means he flies long haul every week and is really only around weekends. Since he and his wife split he is really trying to be a good father and is really improving his relationship with his children. I absolutely support him in that and never mind when he has to drop our plans because of something to do with the children.
Basically the current situation has become untenable due to lack of time and trying to keep all the facets of his life entirely separate.
So, finally, he is suggesting we move in together and says he will tell his children about me, get more involved in my life etc and that we should decide whether to make a proper go of things. That will also mean me accepting him going on holidays with his estranged wife and their children etc as he wants to be close friends with her. I find the holiday idea particularly uncomfortable, but guess it's ok if best for the children?
I love him very much, he is so intelligent and funny and I really enjoy his company, I also find him so attractive and our sex life is great. We get on very well, but I do find I get so angry and resentful at the fact our relationship has not moved on up to this point.
So, in summary, and thanks if you have got this far, should I just give up hope now that we will actually get to a proper committed relationship or give living together a go and see what happens?

"ok, I need some quick advice, I would like to show him this thread, I desperately want him to realise how unacceptable. His behaviour has been towards me and at least I would like an apology. I hate feeling so angry and hurt and bitter, is this a terrible idea?"

and

"I know, I am battling with just sending him the link, because he really does care what other people think and always thinks I am just behaving unreasonably with my own terrible agenda of actually trying to stand up for myself. And based on everything, I of course do need to end the relationship with him."

You seem to be working this out Kimber! Let's cut it right back a bit. This guy cares what OTHER PEOPLE think of him, and NOT what YOU think of him. If he did, he would move heaven and earth to be with you.

Love, you have wasted enough of your life on this creep already, you need to evict him from your life, he is occupying a position he has no right to hold, that of a good guy, wanting the best for YOU.

It wouldn't matter if you sent him the link. He knows all this.

It's not like he's going to have some sort of revelation. He's treating you this way because you are letting him. He will have not believed his luck; a girl with no baggage, her own money, who won't bug him too much.

It's all at his convenience. He knows this already.

By showing him this thread all he will do is realise you have copped on to his ways. Then he will ramp up the manipulation and try to convince you it ain't so.

Don't waste your time OP.

I can understand your need to get him to see that "his behaviour has been unacceptable"

However, I would say that sending / showing him this thread would be a bad move. If you do want to break up with him there's nothing to stop you writing him a letter where you explain how you feel, you could use this thread to help you to write succinctly and clearly. You would need to make sure it was clear that your decision was final and that you wouldn't be swayed by any arguments. You could even say that your friends on MN agree with your point of view.

But ultimately, he might never accept that he's been unreasonable and you will probably need to move on, regardless of how he reacts.

From what you've said in your posts, I would say you're definitely wasting your valuable time with this man. Take a deep breath and then run!

Oh don't show him the thread FFS. He knows that his behaviour to you is making you unhappy and he doesn't care. Because you are only a 'woman' and therefore you exist, as all women do, for his benefit. He will probably find it amusing that all these other frigid manhating bitches are talking about their XPs, he will say that they all got dumped because they were 'selfish'.
You can't change this man's thinking and you will never get an acknowledgement from him that he has mistreated you, or that your feelings matter in the least.
Honestly, just chuck him and move on.

Don't show him this thread, OP. If you're not ready to tackle this loser then file it away for when you are ready to move on.

I've been like you, making excuses for somebody who must have been laughing up his sleeve at me. I can see it in your posts that you're doing the same.

This 'man', by his own admission, has not been a good husband and father. I imagine, if you ever spoke to his 'ex', she could fill you in on quite a lot more and would probably be astonished that you feel you have a commitment with him when she has that commitment - you don't, you just think you do and are clinging on to something that's like whisps of smoke... :(

If he really did love you, he would be removing every obstacle that prevented you from living and making a life together. He's not doing that. When it gets too close for comfort, he's telling you that because of something you've done, he isn't sure anymore...

We can see this because we're not 'in it', many of us have been through this ourselves at some point, and it's an old, OLD story.

You'll never have what you want with this man because it will only ever be YOU doing the running about. Be thankful that you don't have children with him and make sure that doesn't happen anytime soon. Is there a reason why you won't listen to your RL friends? Presumably they know and love you and want you to be happy? It's hard to listen to somebody 'raining on your parade', but any decent person would tell you the same based on what you've said. You don't have one poster here who is telling you that what he's doing is ok, because it isn't.

Do you know what? You actually know this.... you know it because all of the words are coming from you, the story and the nuances, all from you. Your brain is doing its very best to make you realise that this is no good for you. If you needed validation, you have it in spades. The other posters on this board really do know their stuff and they will not steer you wrong... but they won't induldge you in your smoke and mirrors pretence either.

Rooting for you, that you'll do what's good for you and dump this selfish liar. :)

Ok, quick update, I sent him an e-mail this morning basically saying everything that was unacceptable to me, holidays, no divorce, keeping me separate etc and that if these things weren't going to change there was no point in any further discussion and I didn't want the relationship to continue. we were meant to be having dinner tomorrow night anyhow to discuss things, and whilst I am not even sure if he has seen my e-mail I suspect he has as suddenly he is now not going to be back from work tomorrow night. I have plans for the rest of the weekend and he is flying off again mon morning so not actually going to have the chance to discuss anything anyhow. I am looking forward to my weekend with lovely friends and family instead!

and thanks to those who advised not to show this thread, certainly not going to, was a temporary state of madness.

Good for you, you are doing the right thing, I'm sure

This is going to be really tough and there are going to be a million things that happen over the next few days / weeks that make you think you've made the wrong decision and maybe things weren't actually that bad.

But stick to your guns and remember that you deserve the best, i.e. someone who believes that you're the best possible option. Second best isn't good enough. You don't ever need to be someone's second best! Unless the person you're with believes that you are "the one" you'll never really flourish in a relationship.

One day you'll look back on this and think "phew, what a lucky escape" but until then print out the email you sent him and keep reading it to remind yourself why you want to end it.

Good on you. Have a great weekend.

thank you lovely ladies! I feel happy and positive and I do know ultimately whatever happens it will be better than this! I am relieved that I am not going to have a week in the summer with my heart in my stomach wondering what's going on.

Kimberjem - well done!! Clearly he can't give you what you need - even when you have spelt it out, or he would have replied to your email immediately :( I'm glad he didn't though and it's enabled you to see that he's just jerking you around.

I'm pleased that you are happy & positive - but when the inevitable low comes - come back here and we will slap you around a bit until you see sense. With MN you never need to be lonely or suffer alone :)

Shiney I do wish you'd stop beating around the bush and just say what you mean.

Don't waste any more time on this person. Don't hope against hope that he will change and that the relationship will improve. Bin him!

Don't stay friends with him, he is not your friend and anything he can offer as a friend (you mention advice about work etc.) you can find from proper friends (old or new).

When you see your RL friends and family this weekend, could you talk about this with them? And find out what they honestly think of the situation? Hope they're supportive of you.

My friends and family want me to break up with him, even my friends who like him, because of the situation and how he has treated me, so they will definitely be supportive!

Great - tell them all what you have done, it will help to stop you doing something daft when you are lonely or drunk!

Only caveat is I have ended the relationship a number of times before and then caved so think it will take a while for them to uncross their fingers! :-)

I was really shocked to read this..

"He also said if we move in together I will have to make myself scarce on sat nights when his youngest stays over, at lease for the first few ,months, because he doesn't want to upset him and he really enjoys that time alone with him"

That's simply outrageous. I'm all for split parents putting their children first and it sounds like you would make a great step mum because you are worried about the children's needs and don't want to shut them out like some do but this is just silliness and over the top.

You appear to have exactly the sort of personality that is sought out by these selfish charmers, successful in your own right, caring. Someone he can use and pull down. Someone he is treating like a mistress for sex and support.

Disappearing after the difficult email? There's a taste of things to come for how he deals with problems.

Good luck with getting out while you still have time to meet someone who is not such a user (in all senses of the word).

OK so - three questions:

1. When are you going to finish it properly (so far you have only said you wont continue it if - when are you going to say 'Clearly you have no intention of meeting my needs - I'm off!')

1. Are you going to do that for GOOD this time or are you still hoping he'll talk you around.

1. If you are finishing it for GOOD, what is the thing that is going to stop you going back to him again this time?

Don't cave in!
You can be strong.
We will support you.
You know you are right

He is a c*ck

You know what he's going to do next, though, don't you? Ignore you totally for around a fortnight, then turn up with a bunch of petrol station flowers and try to have sex with you. He will say that he misses you, and wants you back. But he will NOT make any kind of commitment to giving you what you want other than the vaguest promises of changing things 'soon'. And everything he says will be all about him and his feelings. Don't fall for it.

To be fair (tongue in cheek) the sorry presents have been very expensive jewelry so far, so not petrol station flowers but sentiment is the same and I cannot be bought. His usual way is to throw money at any problem. We have spoken tonight post email and he didn't really understand my about-turn but wants to have dinner tomorrow and talk.

Really must sleep now, this is far too addictive! Night all and thanks for continued kick up the arse!

You told him you were busy, right?

Don't cave in!
You can be strong.
We will support you.
You know you are right

He is a c*ck
Am i repeating myself?.