Newbie - desperate for impartial advice!

[Kimberjem]

Hi, new poster here, have lurked for a while and could really do with some impartial advice. After a really rocky two year relationship we have come to a crunch point whether to really commit or to call it quits.
My partner is separated from his wife but not divorced, he insists that she will never consent to divorce so it is another two years minimum (they were separated 3 months when we got together). He has 3 children with her from 18 - 10. I have never met his children nor do they know I exist and from what I understand aside from when he first moved out there has been no conversation with the children about why their parents have split up nor any clarity about the future.
His wife knows about me but doesn't want my name mentioned around her and also pretends I don't exist. He has made it clear to me for the past two years that she would like to reconcile. We don't live together, he lives in a flat round the corner from the family home.
I am in my early 30's and he is in his early 40's and I have been clear frm the start of the relationship that I would like a long term committed relationship and ideally to have a child, he has said all along that he isn't sure either way so it's not a no or a yes.
By his own admission he was a pretty poor husband a father, he has a job that means he flies long haul every week and is really only around weekends. Since he and his wife split he is really trying to be a good father and is really improving his relationship with his children. I absolutely support him in that and never mind when he has to drop our plans because of something to do with the children.
Basically the current situation has become untenable due to lack of time and trying to keep all the facets of his life entirely separate.
So, finally, he is suggesting we move in together and says he will tell his children about me, get more involved in my life etc and that we should decide whether to make a proper go of things. That will also mean me accepting him going on holidays with his estranged wife and their children etc as he wants to be close friends with her. I find the holiday idea particularly uncomfortable, but guess it's ok if best for the children?
I love him very much, he is so intelligent and funny and I really enjoy his company, I also find him so attractive and our sex life is great. We get on very well, but I do find I get so angry and resentful at the fact our relationship has not moved on up to this point.
So, in summary, and thanks if you have got this far, should I just give up hope now that we will actually get to a proper committed relationship or give living together a go and see what happens?

Oh classic !! This guy says he wants to commit but then YOU do something "wrong " and he waivers - perrrr lease!!

Emotional blackmail big time. Nothing to do with ex. or the kids or holidays, this is a little boy thinking if he stamps his feet long enough he will get his own way.

Kimber, just read your reply to yourself and see if this loks like a partnership. I think he will get more and more 'agitated' as time goes on and as you assert yourself over paint colours, bedding, what is for dinner, and heaven help us, childcare arrangements. He is not good enough for you, and you know it. Bear in mind, I can only respond to what you are writing in your posts, and even you don't seem convinced. In your heart, you know the answer

I do, I have been waiting for him to have some sort of epiphany and start treating me as a partner, but it's very very unlikely to happen. I guess I just can't understand why he keeps hanging on, why doesn't he just go back to his ex? There are two separate issues I guess, firstly how he treats me and secondly the long term viability. I think if he was an amazing, loving, supportive equal partner perhaps I would give up on the idea of having children, but the situation as it stands today has been untenable for at least six months or so anyway.

I think you are doing the right thing, in looking this problem squarely in the face instead of drifting along, then you will know that whatever happens, you DECIDED on that course, rather than had it foisted on you. Remember too, you cannot change him. What you see is what you will get. We are all here to hold your hand for as long as you need us.

Thank you, it does help me to feel more confident and hopeful for the future if I am making decisions and yes I am well aware that we could drift on for another 5 years and it will just get harder.

He really doesn't have any respect for you - or for women in general - at all. TBH love he thinks you are stupid and can be fobbed off with all sorts of vague promises, especially if he mixes them with threats of withdrawing his wonderful fabulous irresistible presence for a while.

That made me laugh SCGB, his point of view is that he was pushed into marriage/kids when he wasn't ready and didn't want to and now he won't do anything he doesn't want to do and wants to be certain first. We went for counselling relatively recently when I was getting totally fed up, and as a consequence so was he and after a few sessions I went to see the counsellor on my own and his view was that actually I was doing nothing wrong and he did mention that some of his behaviour was emotionally abusive but I guess that covers a wide spectrum. I just feel very worn down.

kimber, youve been together two years. You are still not allowed to be part of his childrens lives...I say that speaks volumes.

If he wants to move in with you, I suggest you tell him that you and he and the kids should go on hols together - without the wife. This is entirely reasonable, given the length of time you have been together.

I would then watch as he gives you every excuse in the book about why you cant do that.

If you want children, you need to find a man that wants the same things. A man that cannot wait to be in your life full time and wants to have a family with you.

You have to expect that if you dump you P today, its probably going to be a year or so of kissing toads before you find your handsome prince...possibly even longer.

Then settling down together for a year or so before considering babies- you could be mid to late 30s by the time this happens, and you are already losing your fertility.

If kids is a deal breaker for you, then you should consider making a stand. If he is not ready to commit fully to you after 2 years, it aint going to happen.

I wouldn't expect to go on holiday with his kids this year as even if he told them tomorrow I think it would be too soon for them, but he has said that is how he sees things in the mythical future.
I don't think that is really the issue, more, how he is treating me now, even if he said let's have a child in the next 12 months I don't think that would be the right thing to do.

FFS don't get pregnant by him. He will disappear after rubbing your nose in the fact that you have been a Bad pet Woman, and get in touch intermittently with just enough kind words to make you unable to forget about him - though he will pay nothing and break promise after promise.
This man is fundamentally only interested in himself and sees women as things to play about with, it's just a matter of pushing the right buttons to reset them from /whine/ mode to /suckmycock/ mode.

There is no chance of that happening! But again you made me giggle so thanks, I am naturally pretty positive but have felt like all I do is switch between angry and resentful/whiny to eager to please, it's all a bit pathetic really.

every time he feels like he wants to commit fully to me I do something to put him off

THAT KimberJen is a RED flag.

You having to make yourself scarce in YOUR OWN HOME when his child comes over? After you have MOVED IN with him? RED FLAG

Him not telling his kids about you after 2 years - and they ARE old enough to be told - RED FLAG

Don't even get me started on the Him Going on Holiday with his Ex-Wife....

A normal person would have told his kids after a year, 18m, maximum. A normal person would tell his DC that he was looking for a place and that you his GF would be living with him.

whether he is aware of it or not, he is setting you up for an abusive relationship, taking you away from YOUR home, your surroundings, making you feel a guest in the place that I dare say YOU would be paying to live in too, a place that you would be expected to clean, cook in and have sex with him in.

He is wasting your time and I pretty much guarantee that fast forward 5 years when you have given up your life to be with him are in your late 30s he'll say that he won't have more DC, not to hurt the ones he has.

Run for the fucking hills - he is playing you like a violin and treating you like a whore, a guilty secret and saying as little as possible to you to keep you and your supply of sex on the hook. What a total creep.

Oh dear, as others say - Red flags all over the place. Worth you visiting the stepparents forum as you would become a step parent if you ever get to meet the children and this will open up a whole host of problems. Most of us step parents have had issues, and often wonder if we knew what we did would we have taken on a partner however most of us had willing, available partners at the outset. You're not even starting with that!

This guy might have very sensible reasons to not have another longterm relationship as he 3 kids, an ex who isn't moving on in her life, financial challenges etc BUT you have to be aware of this. Don't listen to the words see the actions..he is simply not available for a longterm relationship (but no doubt likes the stability/support of a close relationship).

It's your choice how to play this - accept that he's not actually available or bail now.

(stage 2 of this, meeting the children, dealing with a reluctant ex is even more difficult than the phase you are in now, hell this is supposed to be the honeymoon phase - please do not under estimate the challenge - see the other forums and you'll get an idea)

Add message | Report | Message poster SpringchickenGoldBrass Sun 17-Apr-11 11:44:47 "This man is fundamentally only interested in himself and sees women as things to play about with, it's just a matter of pushing the right buttons to reset them from /whine/ mode to /suckmycock/ mode."

This ^

Absolutlely correct.

Kimber - VERY good advice from Smum99 ^

Kimber you are this mans girlfriend not his partner.

If you stay with him in 3, 4, 5 or a few more years time you are going to realise you are never going to have a child with him unless you have an accident with contraception.

It will then be your child never his.

You have had councelling in the first 2 years of your relationship and your counceller even told you that there is EA in your relationship. Believe this!!!! the counceller (like us lot) has no ulterior motive or anything to gain if you stay or go. We just say what we think we see from your posts. It is not going to get any better.

He is still married. If you move in with him you need to be crystal clear and watertight legally about the financial situation as his children as dependents will have a lot more right to his estate (and maybe what should be yours) if there is an accident.

Get out now while you are young enough to meet someone who can commit to you.

Thanks all, you have solidified in my mind, I am not crazy or unreasonable in the basic things I have asked for or the things I have got upset about. I have a really important day tommorrow that I need to focus for and will tackle this next weekend when we see each other.

You are only wanting what most other women want, and YES you have a RIGHT to think you deserve them.

Don't let him tell you what YOU want in YOUR life. No good will come of this situation.

If you tell him, say your piece, hoping he will see the light, agree with you, then change - well, that isn't going to happen. I agree with the basic advice here, esp from SGB - he is playing you like a violin, you're bending over backwards to 'help' him, it's still not enough, he wants more. In fact, it may be better if you didn't move or speak, because that is what he wants - a doll. Your relationship sounds like an affair and I would bet he is using you, whether intentionally or not, to wind up his wife. He's still married to her but torturing her by the sound of it. My dear girl RUN RUN RUN

Be brave and do it, leave him. It'll be hard but if you stay with him it will be MUCH HARDER. Don't listen to his whining, using the children to get you to entirely tailor your life 'for them' (though it's not for them, it's for him, only he's got you tied in knots and is using them to get what he wants, which is: a woman who doesn't make any fuss, about anything, just takes everything without a murmur - THAT's what he wants)

OP. This guy is stringing you along. What you have right now is exactly how it's going to always be.

He is all talk no action. You're building castles on sand here.

Please don't fiddle while Rome burns, don't waste your precious fertile years on this manipulative user. You've admitted yourself you are 'gullible' and sorry but unfortunately I can't disagree.

You seem to have just accepted the bullshit about needing to be apart 5 years for a divorce on his say-so without even checking it out yourself? I'm shocked by that....he can divorce her now if he wants. You should be proactively checking these things out for yourself not accepting his word for things.

To have accepted all these promises and placing all your dreams in his control while he strings you along with his never-never bullshit. Oh Dear OP. Please do not throw any more good time after bad.

So many alarm bells....that he was 'pushed into marriage and children' ....oh PLEASE...not that old chestnut.
Don't end up bitter and childless. You said there was no possibility of falling pregnant for him? I really hope you are not going to tell me he's had a vasectomy and will have it reversed some time in the mystical sands of time way off in the imaginary future?

In life you're better looking at what people do not what they say. Promises are only words. Abstract nothings. You've got to take control here and stop being a passive observer in your own life. As for all these piss weak delaying tactics, stop swallowing them whole. He LOVES things as they are now. Suits him plenty. He probably doesn't want to divorce so he doesn't have to pay the maintenance. Or maybe he's still even with the wife, albeit in seperate homes. Maybe she kicked HIM out and he's trying to work his way back in. How would you know? You can't take anything he says at face value. Only trust what you can verify with your OWN eyes and ears. You have to perform your own due diligence on him, forget about blind trust, that's fairytales.

There is no recourse later when you realise it's been 10 years and you're still no further down the line. It's YOU who has to look out for yourself. He wont, because his interests are at odds with yours.

Why exactly did this guy leave his wife and kids in the first place?

also, speaking as a step-parent, the whole thing of you "making yourself scarce" from your OWN HOME when his DS is round, is just not acceptable.

you are at the very bottom of his list of priorities.

And you deserve a lot more. This is your life here, your fertile years, your potential time to meet someone who REALLY LOVES YOU.

[sorry about the shouting]

kimber - I'm watching this thread with interest as my best friend is in a very similar situation, only she has been with her DP for over six years now.

They both live and work in the US, albeit not together (they both own their own places) - while his ex-wife and children live in the UK.

However, six years down the line, the ex-wife and children still don't know about my friend, nor do their colleagues in the US. (They work for the same company) Every Christmas, he promises my best mate they will spend Christmas together, only for him to turn around two or three days before and say that his ex and children are flying over from the UK to spend it with him insted. He keeps telling her that the divorce is going to come through one day, but again, six years down the line and he doesn't seem to have made any attempts to get things moving.

Myself and our other friends here in the UK have enormous concerns as you can imagine, and often try to speak to our friend about what's going on, but the sad thing is, although she acknowledges that "he's rubbish", she doesn't want to listen or do anything about it.

Anyway, I'm rambling. I think the reason for me posting this is that as with my friend, your post raises enormous red flags - but the good thing is you've recognised that things aren't right and need to be tackled. So my advice would be DO tackle this now, as before you know it, you'll be six years down the line and things still won't have changed.

Agree with: HerHissyness Sun 17-Apr-11 12:14:16
Dont move in with him while you have all these worries. Lots of red flags for me too.
I had a relationship where my ex want sure if he wanted children or not - he basically toyed with the idea for about 6 years and left me dangling... we became 'ex' when I realised that his "Im not sure" really meant "no". It was a massive, massive thing for me to break up with him - literally felt like I was tearing an arm off. Yet here I am loving someone else and my dd only 3 years later. Life is much better now.
My personal opinion is that its time to be brave about what you yourself want.
And about the holiday - if everything else was going well (big 'if' in this case) then theres no reason why you couldnt all book the same resort, different hotels and you take the kids of the wife for a few hours/overnight etc and share them that way. No way would I want him holidaying with his ex. Just no way.
Sorry, Im sure these messages are hard to read. But I think you know what your head is really telling you. Listen to yourself - you are your best friend.
Good Luck

Hi All,
Sorry not to have responded earlier and can't address each post individually, but the I just don't feel like I can say the reason why he and his wife broke up, Other than to say it was not down to infidelity on either side. There was a very significant problem that went on for a number of years and because of it the relationship broke down. just to re-iterate, all the red flags that have been pointed out are also red flags to me and I feel like I have bargained away in my head all of them, trying to justify everything, mostly based on his past, and his need to make thugs up to his children and to some extent his ex. What that has meant is that there has been zero consideration for me and my needs. I am ready to put my needs first and move on, unless he has a massive epiphany and changes all those things, including no holidays with ex etc etc, however, I really do know that it is highly unlikely anything will change so really do need to muster the strength to move on. Thanks again for all your advice.
viv, I really do feel sorry for your friend and I know there is no way I can put up with the status quo for another month never ,ind four more years!