After 22 years he wants out: How do me and kids cope with this?

[Saffysmum]

Got married 22 years ago - thought it was for keeps.

After 4 kids - now teenagers, he's decided that he no longer loves me and he needs to move on.

Last year he told me that his feelings had changed. I was gobsmacked. He insisted that there was no OW. He said he no longer loved me. I told him to leave, but he than backed down, said we needed to get "reconnected". He made no attempts to do this. We both work hard and long hours although he earns 4 times more than me (I work a couple of nights a week as a Mental Health Nurse).

I didn't work at all whilst bring up 4 kids ( born within 5 years of each other). I went back to work part time when youngest started high school.

My darling younger sis was diagnosed with cancer late last year - and sadly a couple of months ago lost her fight. It didn't bring us closer, he offered no support at all to me. My elderly parents were naturally devastated. He somehow made it all about him, IFYSYIM. He "grieved" alone, like it affected him more than me.

Anyway, two weeks ago, he said that he needed to move out. That he no longer loved me and that my sister's death had made him realise that he had to live his life as he wanted to. I have been reeling from this.

He said that he hopes we can remain friends for the kids sake.

The kids are all teenagers btw, eldest DS has A levels looming, whilst younger daughter has GCSEs in a couple of months. They know nothing of this.

I cannot forgive him - he is like a stranger to me. If I didn't have the kids then I would have thrown him out two weeks ago. I feel absolute contempt.

My parents are still grieving, and they think he is wonderful. Everyone thinks he is.

I think he is going through a mid life crisis - he is obsessed with his appearance, his weight - is constantly working out or running. If I wasn't so gutted I would laugh at him. He is sadly turning into the sad old git we all scoffed at in the nightclubs years ago.

He said it will take him a couple of months to find somewhere else to live - and that by then eldest two will have taken exams.

I want him out now-but also realise that all kids will be devastasted - and that older two need to take exams which are stressful without the added stress of coping with us breaking up.

I have always, and always will put the kids first. I will fight tooth and nail to get them what they deserve. How do I cope with this though?

Saffysmum, I've just seen your thread and was admiring your decision to stick with things until your dd's exams are over.

But not now. I don't think there is anything to be gained from keeping this man a moment longer in the family home, not when he has allowed your daughter to see porn on the computer and not even forewarn you!

They know what's going on. Kids absorb the atmosphere. Would it not be less troubling for them to now know that you are splitting and that you are fairly ok and strong? And you do sound wonderfully strong. I really admire the courage and calm you have shown.

That must be some sort of record for me SugarPasteFrog!

How utterly careless is he being, did you know previous to this from your daughter op, that he used the family computer for porn? Assuming it is the family computer that the kids use too.

Oh no, agree away! It's so refreshing to have company

What did you say to your daughter about your views on porn? I'd hate for her to think that her Mum is okay about this, because that sends a really bad message to a teenager.

It doesn't surprise me in the least that he's a porn user. There's a strong link between porn use and male infidelity.

Like I said in my first post on this thread, it was always on the cards that the DCs would have picked up on the tension and come to their own conclusions. Hence, I'm wondering whether it would be much better all round if he left now. He's obviously becoming reckless about what the DCs find and his response to your DD's discovery was gutless. I hope she doesn't think all men use porn.

The issue that has always stuck in my throat about your situation is that by doing what you felt was the right thing for the DCs, you were buying him more time to get himself set up nicely with the OW. I've never had any doubt that if it suited him to leave, he would have done so without a backward glance and with no thought for the DCs' exams. If he'd cared a jot about their welfare, he would have hung on to his doubts for a few more months, instead of this latest bout of emotional incontinence about "lost feelings" .

Do you think you'd all have more peace of mind if he went now?

Can't help much with your domestic problems but so very sorry about the loss of your sister. May she rest in peace. Very best wishes and hope that everything works out for you. x

Thanks for latest responses since I posted last night. WWIFN: I didn't give daughter, in any way whatsover, the impression that I thought porn was ok. I told her it disgusted me, (it does) and that I was proud of her reaction. I am livid that he has had this stuff on a computer, that is mainly used by him, but all the kids have access to (although they usually use their own laptops). I'm furious that she had this upset with him a couple of weeks ago, and that he didn't have the guts to tell me, and the poor girl has been going around with the knowledge since then. it's unforgiveable.

I do think he's delusional. We had a problem with the roof a month or so ago, and it turned out that he hadn't renewed the house insurance. This is so unlike him. Luckily BIL is a builder and it wasn't a big problem, but that's irrelevant, I just can't believe he let it slip.

I have zero respect for him, and yes, I want him out now. Eldest DS is away for a few days, and a DD goes away Monday for a couple of days with friends. Sure that youngest DS has no idea, but like someone posted, they probably have talked about this between themselves.

I have to think this all through. It's made detaching from him much much easier. I don't know if I can stomach having him in the same house for a couple more months now. But I still want to do what's right for the kids, because they will be badly affected by this, at such a crucial time for two of them. Also, my poor parents, who have been through so much.

What a horrible, horrible situation.

Thanks everyone for your support, it really does help, and I read and digest everyword from all of you.

Are you sure there were no signs before that things were going downhil? On other hand if he has been having an affair he may have been nice due to guilty feelings and that love buzz ? He only has to pay Maintainance to you for kids until they are 19 or they leave schoollcollege He stops if theygo to Uni so make sure he will provide for them after this by allowing him to see them etcI understand this may be difficult but your shock will eventually go That is why a solicitor may be of help: they are paid to keep calm for you But this Settlements depend on contribution made to houeshold and I do not beleive Spousal Maint exists any more Obvoiusly you gave up your independence to raise large family so you are owed something .I guess you have a property? If you do split, make sure you/your solic keeps tabs on where he works and where he lives .This is v important I am sorry to sound so harsh but the children come firstdo they not? i HOPE this is just a mid-life panic on his part

Saffysmum

I have read this thread and I know that the exams are soon but if you are to get him out now is the time to do so otherwise as time drags on the possibility of exam disruption becomes ever problematic.
I think you are going to have to confirm it to the DCs If you havent aleready done so since I doubt that your STBXH will do so.
You sound like someone very dignified and I hope that the DCs know you are on their side.

It's great that you gave such an unequivocal message about the porn Saffy. I think when one parent is behaving in such a confusing manner, it really helps to have a strong role model. I really feel for you getting such a shock yesterday, both with the DCs' questions and your DD's revelations. It sounds like you coped brilliantly.

It sounds as though he is completely going off the rails and that his behaviour is getting ever more reckless. The house insurance is an interesting example. Failure to do simple household tasks and forgetting all sorts of things is also typical affair-related behaviour.

I hope you get the thinking time you need in the next few days. It must be so difficult sharing a space with him atm.

You sound wonderful and a truly admirable Mum, btw

Celibin: Things started to go wrong, about a year ago, when he said he didn't know if he loved me anymore, before then, everything was, I thought fine. It's in my OP. I don't know if it's a midlife thing, or another OW, I just know that the marriage is over. I've lined up a solicitor, and am wading through lots of info from CAB. My kids are, and always will be my priority. Thanks for your thoughts.

Geeklove: I am weighing everything up, I am considering moving things along now, I just need a day or two to get my thoughts together. Difficult at the weekend, when he's around all the time. Thankyou.

WWIFN: I don't know about coping brilliantly, and being a wonderful mum, but your kind words mean so much. Can I run this by you please...What if I wait until all the kids are at home (probably mid week) and tell them everything. Then tell him I've told them, and I want him out now? Then instruct solicitor to go for legal separation? My heart says do this - I'm so angry with him over the porn thing, and that our daughter had to go through this. But am I over-reacting? Should I just sit tight, as I intended to, and we wait until the kids have done exams? I am worried that things will get worse, and I will get to the point of no return and chuck him out in, say, a month's time, when exams are really close. I just don't know what to do. Also, can you explain why men who have affairs are often porn users? In my niaivity, I would assume that men in the throes of an affair would be satisfied with the OW...just curious about this. Also, I can't for the life of me get why he is going around all forlorn and hurt, when he has caused this - can you shed any light on this? Is this part of the "script"? I'm not bothered about where he goes, or who with. I just want him gone, and wondered if you think sooner might be better than later all round.

I think I could sit this out for a couple of months - but am now considering getting it all out in the open sooner - I just have no idea what to do.

Any thoughts appreciated.
Thanks to all.

Hi saffy I think you are doing really well. It's hard so see that when you are in it!! You have seen my situation and it might be worth letting you know that my DDs knew there was something wrong even though it was a shock when H moved out. I wish I'd just clearly made a clean break. DD1 even commented that we can't even split up properly :( Admittedly it wasn't so close to exams which is important to take into consideration, but I reckon your kids are going to be picking up on it all anyway so it may well be worth saying something now. Wish I was clearer then I could offer some advice, but I have found that it also really helps to hear someone elses experiences. If you do tell them, then it is probably worth contacting the school as they may well get extra points or time in exams to support them through this difficult time. My H does that folorn thing too, and I sometimes forget that this was all his choice Good luck with it all xxx

Can you give me some sense of how you and your H are communicating at the moment? Is it different in front of the DCs (or did you think it was?)

I think this is what it rests on. If there is barely disguised contempt between you and a horrible atmosphere (and I'd really understand that btw) then a break now might be the best thing all round, especially as he is being so irresponsible. This is more or less what I meant by my initial post on the thread; that there will be effects and consequences whatever you do in this horrible situation.

If it's at all possible for you both to have a calm, uninterrupted conversation, then I'd suggest you sat down this weekend with him and explain that this situation cannot continue. That the DCs are being badly affected, by him staying. I would also raise the porn issue. Again, going back to my first post, if he wants to stay until he finds another place, then that comes with some conditions; conditions that he is breaking all over the place at the moment.

WRT porn use and infidelity, I'd hazard a guess that he's been using porn for some time and that it has had an effect on the way he treats you and women generally. I read some research recently about this that is unfortunately not online, but its contents are often borne out on these boards. What happens is that porn users gravitate towards more extreme porn in order to get a stronger "hit". Because their porn use is conducted secretly, there is therefore already a culture of secrecy and lies within their primary relationship. It is therefore far less of a leap to cross the barrier to infidelity when an opportunity arises to enact some of these porn fantasies with a RL OW.

However, just as some people use porn despite having a sexual marriage, the addiction doesn't go away just because RL sexual needs are being satisfied.

Re. him being forlorn and miserable, because he's not being honest about whats really behind this, it's anybody's guess why he is effecting that demeanour. It's possible that the OW is taking time to extricate herself from her own situation (this is my bet) or is showing signs of fear or doubt now that things are becoming "real".

Also, to be scrupulously fair, this must be a pretty miserable existence for him as well as everyone else and even though he's been the architect of his own misfortune, I wouldn't expect him to be cheerful atm. While I think that there is nothing like an affair to turn a previously kind, loving person into a cruel, unfeeling stranger for a while (and there are degrees of that, dependent on the detachment from the spouse/attachment to the OW), at times you might see glimpses of the old H. It would take a very cold fish not to feel some loss and regret for leaving a 22-year marriage.

Thank you WWIFN. When the kids are around, we speak civilly to each other, although not very frequently. Part of this is me trying to distance myself. Because I know that sooner or later we will split the detaching is helping me. I am trying to learn to live mentally as a single person, a single mum, if you see what I mean. When we are on our own, which isn't often, I work shifts, he works long days - house full of kids with girlfriends/boyfriends/mates - then I try to keep out of his way - if he's upstairs, I keep downstairs - he comes into the lounge, I go into conservatory. I'm cool and polite with him though, I haven't shouted or raged at him at all. I don't think I can sit down with him and talk yet though - inwardly I am livid with what he's doing - that he's going to leave the kids, that he's exposed daughter to porn, that he's not keeping an eye on things like household insurance anymore. I think if I started to talk to him, and he does what he has been doing for the last year, just sigh and get up and walk away, then I'll go mad at him, and tell him to get the hell out. Make no mistake, I want him out. If it wasn't for the kids and the timing, then he would have been out of the door weeks ago.

Because he started detaching a year ago, the kids have been used to us not being as chatty with each other as we were when they were younger, they probably know that things aren't great, but it has been the norm for some time. I am also quite a bubbly person, whereas he's quite quiet anyway, so our personalities haven't really changed. Because I get on well with the kids, and am genuinely interested in their lives, I enjoy their company, so my relationship with them hasn't really changed. ALso teenagers are so self absorbed, they kind of live in their own little bubbles. That isn't to say that they are unaware though - but they really seem unaffected at the moment, which is why I'm prepared to sit this out. I have always, since having 4 small kids close in age, been the main carer. He did more with them when they were younger, but put in much less effort once they reached adolesence. I've always done school runs, got meals ready, sorted uniform out, homework, play dates, etc. For the past couple of years at least he perhaps has a few short conversations with them (probably not all of them) at the most each day. He does run them around a lot though. Took son to rugby and picked him up this morning, dropping daughter off tonight, etc. But he isn't connected to them as I am.

So, yes, I can do the detached, civil thing, but I can't guarantee I can do it for two months. So yes, we do need to talk. I think I just need to have a few days to think it all through, and then bring up the conditions you mentioned a few days ago. I agree I need to tell him about the porn. I had another chat with daughter who discovered it this morning. I reiterated what I'd said yesterday, and said that I would talk to him about it. She said that she felt bad on my behalf for telling me, but she thought I should know. Told her I was proud of her, and I would tackle him about it when the time was right. She said she was disgusted with him. That makes two of us then!

Sorry about the long somewhat disjointed post, but I wanted to get as much down as I could because I thought it might help you form more of a picture.
Thanks

Just want to add that I may come over as quite strong and together in my posts, but I have moments (hours sometimes) of extreme panic. He has eroded my confidence over the past year. I think that if I sound confident and together I may become more confident and together, but I am quite wobbly a lot of the time. His timing, when he knows me and my family are grieving for sis, coupled with his indifference to my suffering, really did kill any feelings I have for him.

Hi Saffy, I'm fairly unknown to these boards but do read them quite a lot with interest.

Firstly, so sorry about your loss. Your h is a selfish prick for dumping this on you at this time.

Same thing happened to me, it was over a year after we split that OW reared her ugly head (after she got scared a reconciliation was on the cards) it was then I discovered that it had been an affair going on a long time.

As soon as I read your opening post, my first thought was OW, as your h behaviour is classic.

You deserve better, the advice you have received is so spot on, get as much support as possible, you will get through this and I can bet he will be more sorry than you in the end.

Totally agree that it's them doing stuff to the kids that's the worse.

Take care

Thanks Saffy. I do see how it must have felt like self-preservation to try to detach from him as much as possible. I can also see that having an angry conversation (and I quite see why you're furious) might be counter-productive at the moment.

Reading through your posts about your DD's discovery, given that you said only yesterday that things were ok to the DCs, if you do tell them more imminently that you're splitting up, your poor DD might make a flawed but understandable connection between this and what she told you about the porn. I'm sure you've thought of that already, but I know sometimes when the shocks are coming thick and fast, it's difficult to see the wood for the trees.

I think ultimately, you've got to weigh up whether you and the DCs are going to be worse affected if he goes now or later. I take your point about teenagers' self-absorption (have 2 myself!) but their questions and observations yesterday must have come from somewhere - and after a lot of thought. Also, your poor DD must have been stewing about the porn discovery and wondering whether to tell you or not. I really feel for her .

I was also interested in how under-invested your H has been in family life in recent years - it doesn't sound like he has been giving much to any of you for a long time. This vividly illustrates what I often describe about affairs occurring when someone isn't giving enough, not when someone isn't getting enough from a relationship.

I have the feeling then when all this comes out into the open, your DCs' observations about family life will contain a few surprises. Despite the self-absorption, I've found that teenagers really notice when their family life is different to their friends. It often surprises me to hear how much they comment on their friends' parents' marriages - good and bad! This is however what I mean about you doing such a brilliant job. It sounds as though you have raised 4 very emotionally intelligent and assertive young people with very little help. Take pride in that.

Ok it is over then the practicalities of the sit now come into play.Think ahead!

Sugarpastefrog: Thanks for your post, it has crossed my mind more than once that he would probably like me to throw him out, so like you say, he can then say "she threw me out....woe is me, etc". I want to do this, it is what my heart says, not so he feels better, but so that I can get shot of him. But, this is all his decision, he has, as other posters said, "checked out" of this marriage a long time ago. Him being distant, is now the norm. I've had no support from him emotionally, or physically for over a year. I strongly think that as it's his decision, he should be the ones to tell the kids. He has to say the words, because they are his words, if you see what I mean, not mine.
notoriginal: thank you for your kind words.
WWIFN: Thanks yet again for such an insightful post. Yes, it ultimately comes down to whether the kids will be worse affected if he goes now, or later. This links to your pertinent point about them probably knowing more than I think they know, which I am sure is true. I think this may have to be a day to day thing. If H is able to be civil to me and kind to them, then later would be better. If I am able to swallow the anger I feel at DD discovery of his porn (or at least channel it constructively) then later is better. If, however, one of the kids twigs more than I think they know right now, that may trigger events resulting in him going earlier....also, if there is OW, (and I've always been open to this possibility), she might trigger events to move quicker. So, after sleeping on it, I have decided that I can't worry about what is not in my control. I will sort out solicitor, and have everything in place for when he goes (and go he will). I will continue to be strong for my kids, to make them feel loved and cherished, and to try to continue to provide a happy, home. I will, for my own good, detach, build up my social life, and be open to new opportunities. I will try and nurture my inner strength, because whether it's today, tomorrow or in two months, I need to be strong and together to get my kids through this. And I have no doubt whatsover that they will get me through this.

Thanks for helping reach this decision.

Thank you Sugarpastefrog, it's all about making the best out of a horrible situation isn't it? X