The real reason I am not pregnant yet...

[Bewunce]

... is because dh and I have not had sex for years.

God. I hope this thread doesn't turn horrid. I really could do with having somewhere to talk about this. It is so stupid, and it is not something I could ever admit to anyone irl.

We had an enormous showdown and lots of councilling and agreed the following:

1. We love each other very much and we're sorry we let our relationship get so bad.
2. We're staying together regardless, because we like each other and adore our children and family life just works.
3. We both really want to have a sex life again. Somehow.
4. We both really want another baby, and the time is NOW.

So... we need to have sex. And for the past 4 or 5 months we have agreed that we will have sex. Definitely. Any minute now... just not tonight because of some terribly important reason. But tomorrow for sure. Without a doubt.

Oh dear.

We are both terrified. There are SO many complicated feelings that it is impossible to put it all in a forum post.

Basically, I am asking for some support to help me have sex with my husband.

And if the thread goes wrong I shall destroy this name change and never speak of it again. But I am feeling pretty wretched and some helpful replies would be good.

Hi again. Am back.

Atilla - yeah, I think he wants to fix things. I know he loves me and wants me to be happy. He is also a bit lazy sometimes. He is a bit of an ostrich and if I am not actually TELLING him how things are he assumes everything is okay (or, actually, keeps his head down and hopes the elephant in the room will go away).

Thank you for the links dirge.

Willnamechange - thank for your post. I really appreciate you taking the time to type it all out. It is a bargain, isn't it. And it's not a terrible one. Well, there are worse. And YES, re needs of children currently being more important than my sexual needs. You do get used to the lack of sex and what starts as a keen loss becomes a dull ache and then it doesn't feature day to day. Until something stirs it up again. I wish you all the very best too. It's good to know it's not just me.

Lol re being well known . I was trying to give as little identifying info as poss. The reason we cannot go for counselling is because nothing of the sort exists in the country where we live.

We have tlaked about the turkey baster idea. We both agree that it would feel like admitting defeat on our sex life.

We both agree that we REALLY WANT to have sex. And then we go to bed... and ... Err... gosh, is that the time? Really tired. Early start in the morning. Yawn. Night night. Yes, quite right. And the next night... we go to bed and... ... goodness me my toenails are getting long. Better leap out of bed and cut them! Oh dear, you have fallen asleep while I was in the bathroom. We work together to beautifully and wordlessly sabotage any chance of having sex.

"I'm going to bed now for a early night"
"Oh right. I'll be up now. Just catch the headlines."
then
"Oh whoops I seem to have fallen asleep on the sofa and now it's 1am"

Yes, we are affectionate otherwise. We had let that slide too, but now we kiss and hold hands. We made a point of bringing that back to the relationship.

bewunce,

"Atilla - yeah, I think he wants to fix things. I know he loves me and wants me to be happy. He is also a bit lazy sometimes. He is a bit of an ostrich and if I am not actually TELLING him how things are he assumes everything is okay (or, actually, keeps his head down and hopes the elephant in the room will go away)".

Why is he allowed to be so lazy, why have you let him get this way?. He now seems quite happy as he is. Denial is a powerful force within him as well. Unfortunately for him and you, this elephant in the room will not go away. It will keep rearing its head even though you try and block it by saying that the childrens needs are more important than yours. You sell yourself short actually by thinking that.

Re this comment:-
"The reason we cannot go for counselling is because nothing of the sort exists in the country where we live".

You could have said that before y'know!:). Its a valid enough reason.
I am not suggesting you have not tried all avenues here but are you completely certain there is no counselling at all?. What about marriage guidance?.

(Which continent are we talking about here btw, I will not ask you to be more specific than that). Presumably you are abroad because of work. Is a move back to the UK on the cards?.

You need to consider long term too. Children grow up and leave home, where will that leave you both then in the event that you have not split up beforehand?. What will you and he have to say to each other then?. This elephant in the room could easily spill over into resentment towards your H. You're both sabotaging this relationship with the eventual result it could end.

Staying together solely for the "sake of the children" (poor souls being given such adult responsibility) if it came to that is rarely if ever a good idea. It teaches them that your whole relationship was based not on you but on them. They should not be the glue that holds you together.

I agree with everything you say Atilla.

Which is why I want to fix things.

Unfortunately, bewunce, YOU can't fix things - at least, not in the way you're striving to believe it can be done. Deep-seated issues like finding sex disgusting (and I guessed at the possible bi-sexual thing, too, this is not unusual) cannot be fixed by an effort of will - not even by the affected party, never mind someone else! It's madness to pursue that line of thought.

There's a strong element in your posts of your taking responsibility for your husband's life, feelings and even his knowledge of everysay things. Please stop mothering him like this. You've slotted perfectly into the role of Mother, to him as well as to your children. Leaving aside the obvious implications of this for your sexuality, it's bad for you and for your family's relationships in general.

It is impossible to have a good sexual relationship with somebody who finds sex revolting. It is impossible to get him to address his evidently deep-rooted issue. Therefore, it is impossible for you to [re?]gain a happy sex life with your husband.

Lots of people do have sexless marriages. Time was, not so long ago, when couples were embarrassed to admit they did have sex for fun You're a million miles from alone in this. There are many coping strategies. You're wise to have reintroduced affectionate touches to your communication - not for targeted purposes, but because touch is an extremely part of human interaction; presumably you both want to remain close, so this was a constructive move.

As to the baby business - well, you can DIY artifical insemination as others have mentioned. That, too, is more commonplace than you probably think. It's very easy to do, as long as he can ejaculate into a clean jar. Or you can adopt. If you're living in a less-developed country, aren't there hordes of unwanted children just desperate for a truly safe & loving home?

You seem understandably sensitive about all this so I hope I'm not coming across as harsh. I know what you mean about getting used to it. I haven't had sex since 2005 (am very single, by choice) ... but my pre-divorce years, living a relationship without sex, were far harder and more painful. You simply must come to terms with the facts as you've laid them out, for your own mental health as well as your family's happiness.

bew i can really nderstand this,i thik you can get it back we have

it had been a few yrs kids etc got in the way and we just drifted, family life has always been good.I wanted it but he didnt seem bothered and lost it as your h did when we tried.
i took it personally as i had gained weight etc etc

then in feb we both woke early 5ish n we just started a sleepy cuddle it came from nowhere, then lotsof touching and my inhibitins just fell away so did his
he still loses it someties but witrh a bit of work it returns or its just okay or sometimes its not full sex just playing which is lovely.He only likes it early morning though but hey ho

the point is it wll happen if you both want it too.I feel great nowwe are so much closer and i feel like we are falling in love again but as grown upsthis time
there is no way i would ever discuss this in rl

can you try the early morning approach, just cuddling at first
/

I think the real elephant in the room is that your H is selfish. He is putting his feelings ahead of yours by making no effort other than to agree with you that the situation is unfortunate and needs fixing. Because he's quite happy with things the way they are.

I am finding this thread so useful.

Yes. I am the family MUM. Dh even jokes about it sometimes. His mother died when he was very young (for the Freudians amongst you).

This is partly my own doing as I went batshit crazy when I had my pfb and was one of those all consumed women who did nothing but baby yoga and organic origami. I sewed nappy covers. I knitted soft little cloths which I soaked in lavender and tea tree oil and cooled boiled water to use as environmentally friendly reusable baby wipes . (You can take a moment to snort at me, it's okay ).

Then dc2 came along and he is the worlds clingiest child. At 3 yrs old he has fallen asleep without me maybe twice in his life? Mummy must do EVERYTHING. And (I am ashamed to admit this) I guess I sort of loved him instead of dh. He NEEDED me. I never needed human touch because I was clambered on and slobbered on for most of the waking day. When evening came I wanted some space to myself, not MORE touching.

It was initially dh who had issues regarding sex, but I have very much sealed the deal by falling in love with my children and out of the habit of loving my husband. I felt angry and humiliated by my husband not wanting me, and I suppose I sort of huffily thought "Well FINE then I don't need you either" without ever giving it that much thought, or analysing it, iyswim.

And THEN dh moved away with work for 4 months, and then a year later was away for 6 months. That couldn't be helped. So it's not just that we have drifted away from each other - circumstances have helped to drive a wedge between us.

We still rarely have a bed to ourselves. The children bedhop. No chance of morning cuddles.

With dh's sex ishoos he probably feels uncomfortable having sex in a bed where the children spend time. Just guessing at that.

Also, we tried sleeping naked (no sex required) and dd came in in the next morning and giggled about it. "Daddy's forgotten to wear his PANTS hee hee". Poor dh.

So... god this is long, sorry, I do think though that if we had some advice there are things we can CHANGE and FIX. I don't think we are a lost cause.

No, not overly long at all. It's ineresting to see you getting some perspective on the emotional big picture. Question is, can H do the same? And - harder question, sorry - is it worth it for a sex life with someone who reviles sex? Do you feel as if you're bending yourself out of shape, so to speak?

I'm by no means trying to tell you what to do: it's your life & your marriage; I'm just asking you to keep in mind that there are alternatives. You're clearly wedded to the idea of yourself as Indispensible Mum - that's totally understandable, but largely incompatible with a full, adult sexuality. You might choose to change your role in the family dynamic. Or you might choose to embrace it further, and get more children to mother without having sex.

Your holistic baby wipes made me chuckle! It looks, though, as if you recognised the shape your life was taking even then ... choosing "extra motherhood" to compensate for what was lacking elsewhere in your emotional & sensory landscape.

I am bending myself out of shape. But yes, it is worth it. Because I'm not really choosing between staying or leaving. I am chosing between staying, or staying with improvements.

I would like to be less 'mum' and more 'person'. I don't even know where to start with that though. I am deeply entrenched in this bed I have made for myself.

Actually, now I come to think of it, last year I made a heroic effort, lost a stone and ran a marathon. And then it was over and nothing had changed. So I stopped running... not really sure why. The stone is back, because what's the point?

Perhaps me becoming less of an all-defined Mum, and getting something resembling a sex life together could go hand in hand?

Last night we went out for dinner. I made an effort. I planned to initiate something when we got in. But I overdid the dutch courage and had to go to sleep with one foot on the floor to stop the room spinning. Don't think it even occured to dh to try anything. Bastard.

Bastard? Really ... ?

Would you be putting yourself through this if he were openly gay? I'm not suggesting he is, mind. I'm trying to point up the futility of attempting to alter someone's fundamental nature through lifestyle changes.

Glad you had a good night out, anyway!

No. Not really bastard. Am just frustrated. And hung over. I only had two glasses. Am a lightweight these days.

Forgot to CONGRATULATE you on your marathon! What an achievement!

Yes, it's invariably a great idea for someone struggling with relationship issues to do more for themselves - anything that engages your enthusiasm and makes you like yourself more for the individual you are. Sporty & creative pursuits often help, and/or learning something to a high standard :)

Heh, you are a lightweight All the better for your running ...

Is he gay?

Thank you :)

Do you really think that trying to change his approach to sex is futile?

Don't think he is gay. I have asked him. He says not.

He finds sex revolting. He rejects you even though he knows what would make you happy. He says he wants more children but won't procreate.

Yes. I'm afraid I do.

I can totally understand you saying you fell in love with your babies so did not really need him I remember when I had DS that I declared that I had never felt that way about any man it was pure love .
But are you sure you will not start to have sex with your DH again have a baby and then not want to know him again (in a sexual way) when the baby comes. Are you sure your DH wants another baby?

This might be totally left field, but might it be worth emailing Relate about your predicament and seeing if one of their counsellors would do some phone sessions? Or failing that finding a private specialist and asking the same thing.

As far as I know the sessions are based on talking, so no reason why that can't be done remotely.

Of course there would be downsides in that the therapist wouldn't be able to use clues from your body language etc (although video skype?), but it might actually lessen the embarrassment factor for you both?

"I never needed human touch because I was clambered on and slobbered on for most of the waking day. When evening came I wanted some space to myself, not MORE touching.".

I feel exactly that way at the moment. I'm pregnant with DC3, and fell pregnant before I'd stopped breastfeeding DC2. I feel as if my body hasn't been mine for the past 20 months, and I want it to be just mine sometimes!

The other problem is that I'm a morning lark and he's a night owl. I get up early to do my chores, and he stays up late doing his. So we tend to be ships that pass in the night at bedtime.

The difference is that my DP wants to make love to me, and cuddle, and kiss. And because I love him I want to do those things too and we make time for it. Once we start, I always get into it.

But if I didn't have a DP who reminds me (in the nicest, most loving way possible) that he had needs to then I can well imagine going for months without sex.

"he has needs too" - sorry about my typing....

yes OP's DH must have needs, and maybe if she finds what really turns him on, and goes for it, he will be unable to resist!!!!!!!

Jessica ... passive-aggressive control? Covert rejection? Asexuality? Some as-yet unadmitted fetish? Not all men (or women) are simmering bundles of orgasmic lurve, just waiting to be set free. It's slightly bonkers to assume you can make somebody be what they're not.

Stephen Fry has said he finds sexuality disgusting. The man has many brilliant qualities, but I wouldn't want to be his partner, straight or gay.

Bewunce - I'm wondering why you want another baby.

From what you've said, you're just getting out of the baby fog - you've done a marathon/ lost weight etc. Seems it's time to enjoy your dc at their older stage without going back into the newborn phase again. So if you did get pregnant, by one means or another, are you just covering over the cracks for another eg 4 years? Because if you stop at this number, you'll have to start facing up to the relationship issue, instead of hiding it again.