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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Lundy Bancroft

288 replies

exhausted2011 · 25/03/2011 06:37

Feel like I need a bloody great highlighter pen, and then throw the thing at DH.
Reading this on the tube, open mouthed. Unbelievable. About 95% is spot on.
I can't help him can I?

OP posts:
ShortArseFuck · 27/03/2011 08:30

I would've been blamed for the baby falling - called stupid, it would've been my fault.

I am not even going to engage on that thread anymore but the people who are shouting the loudest obviously have never been in a controlling, abusive relationship.

I tried and tried Attila for so long to make my marriage work - I tried so hard to be what he wanted me to be, to change so that he wouldn't pick on me, shout at me - it didn't work. In the end it never was enough, but it never would've been enough.

I really wish every young girl had to read the Lundy Book I know when my girls are older I'll make them read it.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 27/03/2011 08:43

Hi Bingeeater,

re your comment:-

"No, I think it is because knowing you have played a part in getting the relationship into that state, you believe that you can change your behaviour to get it back out again".

This is indeed very true in that people can change their behaviour (but only their own). However, doing so is a very hard process to achieve. Controlling or modifying your own behaviour in the midst of a controlling relationship is a tactic doomed to failure ultiamtely because the changes you make are never enough and you are always found wanting by the controller.

I appreciate your post, its very thought provoking.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 27/03/2011 08:48

SAF

So glad (and that is an understatement) you got away from this man (I hesitate to use that word. Do you think he actually has some form of personality disorder?).

I think the lessons contained within Lundy's book should be taught in school. Am certain too that some of the children there would then recognise what's really going on within their own parents relationship:(.

bingethinker · 27/03/2011 08:54

Thanks Attila.
I'm not expecting it to be easy and I recognise that it might well fail but I do have to try. Have said elsewhere it will be hedged about with time limits and thresholds beyond which I will make myself take more drastic action.

Hoping that your mistype of my name was an accident, I have a very helathy diet and a BMI of 23, thank you :)

...mind you, someone else called me "bingedrinker" the other day, it could be worse!

ShortArseFuck · 27/03/2011 09:26

Attila I think he's NPD. But of course he will never admit it. I can't describe what it was like.

So much of what was going on in that other thread was familiar and it took a lot for me to post there. To then be shouted down and accused of projecting is just a slap in the face.

Why post if the point isn't to hear the wisdom and experience of people who have been there? And tbh some of the people on that other thread were unnecessarily blunt. But hey ho.

Thing is I spent 20 years living with someone who wouldn't engage with the children, or me. None of my opinions or thoughts were valid if they were different to his and I was an over emotional psycho nut job

I then post for the first time on a thread to try to help when I can see the same patterns and I'm basically called a psycho who has no right to expresss an opinion

AttilaTheMeerkat · 27/03/2011 09:47

Bingethinker

Would like to send you my apologies re the mistyping of your nom de plume. It was an honest error on my part.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 27/03/2011 09:49

SAF

I did wonder about him having a personality disorder hence me mentioning it (I have an NPD brother in law and that's bad enough, he cut us off thankfully so he is no longer in our lives). If this man has NPD then you have truly seen hell on earth.

ShortArseFuck · 27/03/2011 09:55

Attila - I hope you have honestly never seen it at close quarters. It is truly chilling.

The biggest problem I have with accepting it/moving on is that he can't see it. He thinks I am the one with the problem. And he is So So good at hiding it putting everything he does under a skin of reasonableness. And of course he's professionally qualified, high up in his church, blah blah blah.

I only wish I had found MN sooner

Anniegetyourgun · 27/03/2011 10:16

That thread is polarised between people who see definite signs of abuse and those who strongly disagree. I'm afraid anyone expressing one of those two opinions was bound to be shouted down by the other faction. It's not really personal!

I used to get blamed for the DCs hurting themselves or each other, getting lost etc, even when I wasn't with them (XH was the SAHP). On one occasion DS1 burned his precious little fingers on a hot soldering iron which somebody had left hanging over a radiator in the lounge Hmm. That was my fault because I should have known it was there.

ShortArseFuck · 27/03/2011 10:24

The standard answer if I dropped a glass or somesuch was "what did you do that for"

Yeah coz I just felt like smashing a glass on the floor Confused

He used to blank and ignore me and if I wanted to discuss something it would end up with me in tears and totally beside myself and he would be sitting there all mr reasonable and after all that say why are you so upset.

I remember once telling him he had to speak to his mother about something. A couple of days later she was on the phone talking about it and I said "didn't xh tell you that xyz" "no"

I lost it with him and said you told me you'd said to her - yeah, well I just told you that to get you off my back. I will never tell my mother no.

LittleMissHissyFit · 27/03/2011 10:27

Women take on the role of trying to save abusive marriages, as they are blamed for everything from the outset, and the whole women can't have many boyfriend theory growing up, means that we have to make every relationship work or it reflects badly on us. We can't keep our man, can't keep him happy, how are we ever going to have a family if we can't please a man.

Not once are we told, if he is mean to you, he is a wrongun and needs ditching as soon as possible.

I think the suggestions of Lundy in class and as part of citizen classes is GENIUS!

Where do I sign? Grin

ShortArseFuck · 27/03/2011 10:30

My mother is toxic. My father is her enabler.

I was 15 when I started to date him.

I had no sense of normal.

Does that make sense?

LittleMissHissyFit · 27/03/2011 11:01

These men see their victims. They pursue them. It is that calculated, that simple.

bingethinker · 27/03/2011 11:51

In passing would like to say, I am also beginning to realise that one of my brothers is the "victim" in an abusive relationship,and wondering how to help him. Really, it is too simple to say it is always men, unless you blame my Dad, who quite possibly is the real culprit.

Thanks for your reply Attila. I thought it was an honest mistake but then find it interesting to wonder about the preconceptions that might have led to the mistake.

Should emphasis in all of this I am just analysing everything, from every angle, in an effort to come to a fuller understanding. I am absolutely not trying to score points or negate anyone else's point of view.

...and I have had The Finger pointed at me already this morning for intervening in son getting a telling off. Unfortunately this led to an altercation which left both of my children in tears, for which I have been blamed. I did repeatedly say, however, that we need to talk, and he said for sure we did, just not in front of the children, and I will ask him to talk (ie attend counselling) when the kids have gone to bed this evening. The sun has gone down on it though, we have already made up, so I wonder if he'll avoid it again....hey ho.

takes up supertanker rope once more

Patienceobtainsallthings · 27/03/2011 12:59

I think my codependency kept the abusive relationship going ,but my X continued his abusive /self entitled behaviour since our split 18mths ago.What was interesting for me was when i stood back and had nothing to do with him he really started to show his true colours,he will always live a I,ME and MINE livestyle ,always have lies and alibis ,never his fault ,just lots of excuses.But its his car crash now ,NOTHING to do with me .

giveitago · 27/03/2011 13:00

In my though I really don't think my dp saw me coming. However, looking back, I was very innocent and felt his niceness was the greatest thing in the world (he's not good looking or educated - but was soooo nice - I felt it was the important thing and I loved him for it) - and he felt I was the type of woman he could never have got back home (and his mum really pushed the 'she's educated' thingy).

However, I do feel a complete loser as the signs of non-compatibility were there - I was very dynamic and was a big traveller. He basically fobbed me off on every front so in the 18 years together we've been on holiday about 5 times yet been to visit his mum about 30 times. So unbalanced. I was blind and he lied back then to fob me off. So when I got my wake up call I was horrified. Since upping my efforts to try and change things my dh has become a sod because a) learned behaviour (his family are horrendously toxic with extreme influence from religion) b) position of women from his home town is pretty poor and it was only once I'd learned his language that I saw the situation c) he's under so much pressure from his family, me adding mine is the last straw so he's fighting back (to me).

I do think that culture has something to do with it. He has alot of home town expats where we lived and I've seen some pathetic behaviour towards women from the men - and in public. In a fit of weakness I told one of the expat wives about what I was going through (as I've witnessed her in public going through it) and to my horror she just said 'yeah well'. And, of course, she blabbed and it got back to both dh and mil. When people say there's no cultural difference it's bullshit. It doesn't always influence things but it can. My parents are different nationalities, cultures, races and religions but it never made a difference. But they both had a meeting of ways. My dh's view it's 'my way or no way' and with a unhealthy dose of women hating and vengefulness thrown in.

But inspite of this - he won't change. He has a women hating martyr mother and sister and a toxic, wife beating dad (whom martyr mil wouldn't leave as she feels it's a woman's place to suffer) thrown in.

But I know what I'm dealing with - doesn't help me reach my goals but certainly gives me a framework now not to be shocked by his behaviour.

Patienceobtainsallthings · 27/03/2011 13:12

ru still with this bloke GIAG ?

giveitago · 27/03/2011 13:18

Yes, he's my h. Honestly, if I'd kept my work (didn't - noone's fault - we were told we needed IVF so I jacked it in) I'd feel stronger to leave but I've gone downhill so much that I'm in a very bad job and don't see a way out.

bingethinker · 27/03/2011 13:24

Sounds like it.

Patience, your kids are still going through it with their Dad, no? Not just his car crash. Does leaving actually help the children in the end?

In view of the heat there's been, I need to emphasise I am asking purely in a spirit of enquiry, as obviously my own kids are my prime concern.

In fact, if it weren't for the way he parents them, I'd have absolutely no trouble in my relationship: have my own income, social life, and plenty of freedom and encouragement from him in my goals. I can ignore the occasional shitty behaviour from him. On the other side of it we laugh together quite a lot.

giveitago · 27/03/2011 13:24

Shortarse - what are you plans at this point?

ShortArseFuck · 27/03/2011 13:26

Me - get divorce through, live happy with DP

Simples

Grin
bingethinker · 27/03/2011 13:28

Sorry, cross posted.
GIAG if you just want to leave, there should be a way. I hope you find it.

Patienceobtainsallthings · 27/03/2011 13:36

Think whats good to come out of this too, is I know what Im dealing with.
My kids have a gap now from the dysfunction of abuse and alcoholism.
I know he will let them down re maintenance and visits but they dont have an angry bastard in their lives everyday.

NettleTea · 27/03/2011 13:57

My ex went on to behave exactly the same with the next 2 girlfriends, and there is another child who has been left without a father at home. I am so glad I havea DD as seeing how he refers to his son as 'a bad boy, just like his daddy' with pride, and he refuses him nothing, wont tell him no, etc, the child is a right handful for the poor mum.
My DD is slightly protected in that she has my mum with her, who is a very strong person and wont take any crap from him. He also didnt see her for over 3 years. Even went abroad for quite some time without a backward glance. Spent up all the girlfriend's money (and was ACTUALLY violent with her, Ive seen the bruises) and then left her. Mixed up in drugs, we are pretty sure he is still dealing as his lifestyle doesnt match his unemployed status.
In some ways when you see them follow the same pattern with subsequent partners its awful, but you know it is them, not you. Pretty sure he is NPD.

Patienceobtainsallthings · 27/03/2011 14:00

x post .
BT my kids dont have abuse in their lives everyday ,they have a peaceful home .I wouldnt change what happened to me it has been a gift.Didnt see it when i was in it,thought i had a great marriage ,great sex etc .
I was seriously bonded to the abuser.Taken me 18mths to break free.
Dont know if youve read any John Bradshaw ,inner child stuff.I am reading the Homecoming just now .Lets us know where these patterns come from and how to unravel some of the dysfunction.
Of course a marriage break up is sad ,this is the hardest thing I have ever done in my life but its the healthiest way forward and I have learnt a lot.
My X will now have to get into a routine of maintenance when all the paperwork of divorce is done and hopefully he will get into a regular pattern of visits.
For me this isnt about blame anger or resentment ,I have moved on from that now.This is about the kids getting the good bits from 2 people that loved each other very much ,but were very emotionally damaged in childhood and had an abusive marriage.
Everyone thought we had the best relationship ever ,but he had an abusive side like his father and I had tremendous self loathing that accepted it was my fault.
But yes taking the anger out of my kids lives is a great gift !Improving my self esteem and self confidence makes me a better role model for my kids.