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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Recovery after an affair

352 replies

sheba2288 · 24/03/2011 09:55

After taking huge adviceand comfort, and despite Robberbutton's change in situation, I know there are a couple of us 'survivors' out there. So this is a thread in which I hope we can help survive together.

Brief background on my situ - been with H for 20plus years, married with 2 DCs. H had affair with work colleague last year. I discovered last July. Had a rough summer/autumn, 2 close relatives' deaths added to our turmoil.

Since this Feb, there has been a turning point (thanks to MN advice), and things are starting to be a lot more positive. However.... I am often felt let down and hurt. When does it all go away????

OP posts:
spidookly · 04/04/2011 20:02

I think in some ways it is a worse act to sleep with someone you know to be married (particularly where there are children) than to stray.

If I were to cheat on my husband during the long course of a marriage because of boredom, or selfishness, unhappiness, stress, escapism, it would be done in the context of a loving relationship where I had a lot to lose. It's a shitty thing to do, and I'm not defending it, but people who love each other often go through periods of taking each other for granted and being crap. And often those misbehaviours can be understood and forgiven. Because in the context of a messy shared life things will be done that are regretted.

But to start a sexual relationship with someone you know is committed elsewhere, when you risk nothing and have an outsider's clarity on the pain you are causing (often while hoping to inflict even more), well it just seems so wanton and cruel.

Mumsnet heresy, I know, but I do think sometimes it is up to all of us to respect the boundaries of other people's relationships, particularly when they are vulnerable (which I believe most are at times over the course of a shared life).

When people say "you're nothing to her. Why should she care?"

I think "when did it become normal to only treat people decently if you know them?"

countingto10 · 04/04/2011 20:19

It's do as you would be done by Smile. I could have got the OW the sack from her job (as the affair was strictly against her company's policy) but I made the decision not to, she was a single mum with 2 DC and I didn't think her DC deserved to be caught up in the fallout, not that she cared/thought about my DC at all (told my DH that my DC would get over the marriage breakdown like hers did Hmm). She got the sack anyway because management found out but at least I can say it had nothing to do with me. DH said she was absolutely sh*tting herself, worrying about what I was going to do though Grin.

stargazy · 04/04/2011 21:14

I contacted OW in my DH's EA.Would have made me ill not to say my bit-not a good trait I know but guess that's just how I had to deal with it.Wanted her to know the damage done by her games of extreme flirting.Of course my DH was stupid and very disloyal but she had the grace to admit she initiated most of the contact and pushed the boundaries eg. sending the first explicit texts.
DH and I work in the same industry and I was very fortunate that he immediately severed all contact and re-organised his work so he doesn't go near her.That went a long way to repairing the damage and for that I'm grateful.But without telling her what I felt it would have made me even angrier in the early days tbh.
I now cross her path every few weeks and just nod politely and say hello.I have the satisfaction of knowing she will never know who I may have told about what went on.She knows one of our associates does -as she found me in floods of tears in my car one day early after discovery.But she's very discreet and has become a friend and been very supportive and I told no-one else that is remotely connected.Just a couple of very close friends who live elsewhere.But when I do bump into OW it helps me cope knowing how uncomfortable she must feel- bit mean I know but it sure isn't easy seeing her- though time and DH doing all the right things have slowly helped.Guess we all have different ways of getting through it

lostinthejungle · 05/04/2011 07:36

Girls, I also totally agree. 98% of rage for H, but 2% for crazy bitch as I said in another post what seems like aeons ago. In my case, 2% is a lotta lotta rage.

OW was totally predatory (cultural thing also, I'm not in UK and relationship predation is a way of life here). Thought H had money (little did she know it was all earned by me), knew full well he was married with child. Jumped him and then started to tell him how much she needed money for this and that (he says he never gave her a penny). Just wanted a sugar daddy so she wouldn't have to work to support her kids.

She, the sweetie, was the one who called to tell me all about it, in the process lying furiously about the extent of the relationship (choose to believe my H on this, have evidence that some of the things she said were lies).

Really wanted to contact her again afterwards with some message about how I hoped she could find the strength to find happiness in her life without destroying others, but decided just to leave it. Only today, though, I was in a shopping centre thinking how if I saw her (seen Fbk picture) I would most likely be arrested for aggravated assault (I'm not exaggerating).

None of that is to shift the focus off H, who I am sure has never seen such rage and grief in his life, let alone have it directed at him. It's beautifully complementary I find.

lostinthejungle · 05/04/2011 07:43

Oh, I also wanted to mention that some 15 years ago (ie. I was pretty young) I slept with a married man, once. Like so many men seem to do, he lied about how his marriage was meaningless, wife cold and distant, blah, blah. I gave in because I believed his lies, he came on strong and I was vulnerable. Yet I still knew that what I was doing was wrong, and I cried for days afterwards because I had betrayed another woman, however cold and distant, and even though I had never met her. I felt like shit.

Screw those women (and men) that think it's okay.

lostinthejungle · 05/04/2011 07:50

That said, Spidookly, I take your point but can't quite agree that it's ever a worse act than to actually betray your family. Hence a healthy 98% to my husband.

lostinthejungle · 05/04/2011 07:52

(I wish we could edit posts.)

..... because it's part of the human condition that we can never really feel the same for a stranger or a mere acquaintance than we can for our nearest and dear.

sheba2288 · 05/04/2011 09:06

Hi. I do agree with most of you. I have anger towards the OW - in fact, I would be very tempted to run her over if she just so happened to be crossing a roads - Oops! but my main disappointment (a very mild feeling, NOT) is towards my H.

I haven't come across her since discovery. I dread that day. It is unavoidable as the town we're in isn't that big. However, I already know she has been ostracised by various circle of friends/work colleagues, so there is a chance she may come over all meek. But I still know how brazen she is. God, I hate to think about her!

But it was my H who decided upon his own fate, and that of our marriage, our DC's lives.

OP posts:
thumbwitch · 05/04/2011 09:59

I don't think anyone here really thinks you should just let the OW off the hook - but when people say "it's your H who is truly to blame" it's often because the wronged wife IS laying the majority of the blame on the OW, as though their H was just a poor helpless fly caught in the web of the evil scheming spider, the OW.

There is nothing wrong in being as angry as you like with the OW - nothing at all - BUT the majority of your wrath should be directed at the person who directly betrayed you, through weakness, through meanness or whatever - because he was the one who made the promise to you, not the OW. Yes she might be an evil scheming bitch, granted - but if your H was a decent honest man who was truly committed to your relationship, she wouldn't have made any impact on him.

So that's why many people on here tend to steer away from blaming the OW - because it's too easy to lay it all on her and let your pathetic excuse of a husband off the hook because of it.

walesblackbird · 05/04/2011 10:26

Even when dh completely regrets what he's done, even when he's doing all the right things now does the hurt ever really go away?

It's the anniversary of discovery and us temporarily separating and little things keep reminding me of what it was like. And I'm struggling to remember what I see in him. Why do I want to stay with him? Has the time come to call it a day? I still love him but I can't seem to forgive or forget. I don't trust him, I have very little respect for him and tbh I'm not sure that I even like him very much. It's hard to like someone who's hurt you so badly.

He's done and is doing everything he can to reassure me, he's recognised what happened was all about him and not a reflection of us. He knows he was a selfish arse but was able to compartmentalise his two very different lives very well.

But my children would be devastated if we separated again. He would be devastated. I have so many things going on in my life at the moment - one child with special needs and another with additional needs. One parent terminally ill and one waiting to go into hospital for an operation. DS2 about to start intensive therapy which is going to be very hard and which is going to make life harder before, hopefully, getting better. And it's something that the three of us have to commit to for the next 12/18 months.

Feeling a little overwhelmed really at the moment but I know that my constant niggling of him isn't really helping but tbh at the moment I seem to want to punch him - hard!

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 05/04/2011 10:53

Yes and I also think there is a tendency to expect better behaviour from a woman than a man and I can't agree with that. Women are perfectly capable of behaving very badly, just like men - and we should expect no more, or less, from one sex than the other. Having been there myself too, what does it say about the men's judgement and values at the time, that they chose such apparently ghastly people with whom to get involved? One of the essential parts of affair recovery is for the involved spouse to reflect on his own judgement of people and situations.

I am very firmly in the camp that OW/OM share the blame in these situations, but they certainly shouldn't be blamed more than the spouse, or the spouse infantilised as being somehow powerless to resist the attentions of a predatory and morally bankrupt man or woman. The most powerful lesson a predator will learn after all, is if the targets of their attentions vilified them for hitting on an attached person and sent them packing in the first place. Predators are only invested with power if an involved spouse accepts their entreaties, after all.

It's expecting far too much of a betrayed spouse to empathise or even feel neutral to an OW/OM, because their intrusion in a family stirs up primeval feelings of being invaded and attacked and the anger is huge. But eventually and it does take some time, that hatred does have to be unpicked bit by bit (especially the sexual politics) and the anger, directed at the person most deserving of it - the faithless spouse.

I entirely agree with spidookly that it is really shitty behaviour if an OW/OM exploits a marriage that is going through a vulnerable time, either because of one of the partnership's personal life crisis or because there are marital difficulties. That's exceptionally low, vulture-like personal behaviour and exploitative of the reality that temptation can be especially hard to resist if someone is going through a crisis. A true "friend" to that person wouldn't add to the crisis by offering an affair, that is ultimately going to deliver a death blow to a faltering marriage or bring even more misery and confusion to a person whose marriage is basically good, but is being damaged by depression or mid-life reckonings. Many people in the latter camp will agree to an affair as a form of self-medication; to escape for a while from their own personal demons. It's just about the worst prescription there is, however and OW/OM know that too.

Going forward, I do think it helps to stop thinking of the OW in one-dimensional terms and to stop vilifying her. What tends to bring more healing is if you try to get inside her head and wonder why she chose to play this role. There are as many different motives for being an OW as there are for affairs and whilst I think the hackneyed stereotype of a low-esteemed woman who is always treated badly by men is old hat now and there are plenty of OW engaging in "guilt-free" affairs, I still think it helps to question why that is and try to understand it. Her behaviour was a choice she made - why is the question? Hard as it is, it is actually more healing to you if you humanise the OW and try to understand what makes her tick. Once you bring her into the light, her power recedes. Once you understand her bad choices, you can develop empathy in some cases and pity/contempt in others

Once you conclude that the OW herself made some very bad life choices and ones that will never make a person happy, it is easier to divest her of any power she has over you. You might perhaps hope that she gets some therapy or some help to get her to review her own behaviour and take responsibility for it. You might conclude that if she continues with her train-wreck of a life, she will never be happy and will therefore become the ultimate loser in life.

But you can only control your own life choices and if you're someone who likes women, values female friendship and doesn't expect higher standards of behaviour from women than you expect from men, you will be living your life well and with dignity.

Thundersighs · 05/04/2011 11:29

WBB I would say, nearly 3 years on, that the hurt never goes completely it just lessens. Most of the time its fine but its little things that trip me up and bring it all back. The skill is knowing how to deal with this when it happens. I try to focus on all the positive changes since discovery, for instance my H was a bit of a selfish arse sometimes and its made him realise that and change a lot of his behaviour. We now do loads more as a family and he rarely goes out without me socially and when he does he often comes back early. I know people, including my own Dsis who are in marriages that have survived affairs that happened years ago, unfortunately I can't ask them how they feel now without revealing my own situation which I don't want to do.

Thundersighs · 05/04/2011 11:34

Of course it helps that he knows I'd stab him in his sleep if he ever did it again Grin

walesblackbird · 05/04/2011 12:31

With you there Thundersighs!!

lostinthejungle · 05/04/2011 18:06

Hello, it's needy me again looking for more survivor feedback. I had asked this question previously and would still really like to hear your thoughts:

"I'm wondering if you made the decision to stick with your husbands from the very beginning after finding about their affairs? Or did you very seriously consider throwing them out/did you actually throw them out?"

I am also wondering if you felt like you hated them on (frequent) occasion. I definitely feel that.

And finally, did any of you harbour significant resentment towards your husbands even BEFORE their affairs, and yet manage to get over it, or move towards getting over it, after making the decision to stay?

I'm still asking these questions because although I have felt a kind of peace dawning in recent days about the need to leave my husband, I'm having a bit of a wobble, not totally there yet, and still want to compare notes. The "dump him" hawks are probably completely right in my case, but I still can't help having a bit of a crisis about whether it is the right thing to just give up after a month without really trying to get over anything (right now I'm holding on to my anger - I think, not totally sure - because it is the only thing that will give me the strength to leave). Given the impact it will have on all our lives. As I have mentioned elsewhere, the nature of his affair and his handling of it since I found out would normally give immense cause for hope that we can overcome. But our relationship was already in a tremendously weak condition before that.

Thundersighs · 05/04/2011 18:27

I did seriously consider throwing him out. He offered to go but his affair was basically a ONS and I didn't want to risk pushing them together IYSWIM. I needn't have worried about that as he regretted it almost immediately, which I could kind of tell and was one of the reasons that convinced me something had gone on in the first place, if that makes sense?

I can't remember if you have DC's LITJ? I do remember that you are slightly older and more solvent than your DH? In your position if I were to consider staying together I think I'd be looking to shift the balance of power towards yourself, as it seems that even though you are the more succesful one he acts as though its him and is entitled to behave badly, is that right? Would you both consider coming back to the UK? A fresh start somewhere else may be helpful. If you are going to leave perhaps you should consider coming back anyway.

PfftTheMagicDragon · 05/04/2011 18:27

lost: I threw my H out. He went to stay in a hostel near work. At some point I asked him to come back so we could talk through some things and then I made the decision to try again.

In answer to your second question, yes I felt like I hated him. I also told him that I hated him. These days (7 months on) I find it very hard to tell him that I love him, though he tells me a lot. There's just this silence after he's said it. I do tell him sometimes, when I feel it. But I used to say it all the time and I don't feel so free any more.

I feel let down more easily now. I think that things that might happen, I would have taken on the chin before, but now they cut more deeply. Little things - him staying at work late, being sloppy around the house.

I find it hard to see that we will go the distance. I'm not ready to call it quits yet. But right now, I don't really like how I see him as a person, I don't like the fact that his actions have changed how I think of him. I feel a bit that as time goes on, I become more accepting of the thought of being by myself. I don't want to be divorced, be a single parent. I'm just not sure how I can respect myself for putting up with everything that has happened. I know that people aren't perfect, that they make mistakes. But every time that I think that, I can't help but counter with the thought that - if he wanted to not be monogamous, then he shouldn't have got into a monogamous relationship.

Thundersighs · 05/04/2011 18:30

By the way LITJ, you are not needy, just shocked, confused and heartbroken.

walesblackbird · 06/04/2011 07:57

I'm feeling a little more in control this morning.

Sat dh down last night and talked to him about how I feel. I've told him this isn't about him and his feelings - frankly right now they're not important to me.

I've had enough of him telling me that I have to move on. Well, tough mate ... I can't. It's just not that easy for me. I have to deal with his betrayal, with his lies and his infidelity and his lack of thought for anyone other than himself.

I've told him that he's been a thoughtless and insensitive pig over the past few weeks and that dates/anniversaries of events are important and are meaningful. I understand that he may not wish to remember these dates but I don't have that luxury. I do remember them and they hurting.

I've told him that if and when I want to talk about his behaviour then I will and he will listen and he will discuss with me - regardless of his desire to just put it all behind him.

I've told him that right now I'm basially in the same position as he was last year - unsure whether I want in or out of this marriage and that it will be my decision to make - and as yet I haven't made it.

I've made it very clear that I don't particularly like him right now, that he's not a very nice person and that our marriage is hanging by a thread.

I haven't got over it and I haven't moved on and that's unlikely to happen any time soon - so get used to it.

And do you know, I feel much better for having taken some control back.

He, on the other hand, is completely shell shocked and doesn't know what's hit him. Wink

twostraightlines · 06/04/2011 09:03

WBB and Lost - so sorry you're both in such turmoil. I hope your Hs realise what they are on the verge of losing, and start deserving what they have. For them, it can seem ridiculously straightforward - I fucked up, I said sorry, I've stopped fucking up so we can all move onHmm and getting a man who has become so self-entitled first to empathise and then to change is exhausting and soul-destroyingSad.

I have had times when I am sick and tired of trying to get my H to understand what I'm going through and help me with it. His guilt, he says, gets in the way of empathy because he can barely cope with his own feelings without taking mine on board too. That, alongside the luxury he has of knowing what actually went on, what is going on in his head now, how he feels about me and her leaves me feeling very vulnerable. He swears he'd never cheat again. But blindly believing someone who has lied and lied for years is too much to ask at the moment.

Lost, to answer your question, I threw DH out too. At the time it was because he seemed to be saying that he was leaving me for OW. He realised pretty fast (from a mobile home on a campsite) that he didn't want her and he did want to come home, but he stayed out for 2 months and with hindsight I wish it had been longer, because we slipped back into cosy day-to day niceness too quickly. He thought that moving back in meant moving on, but we haven't finished discussing the difficult stuff, or at least I haven't finished needing to.

I did feel resentment towards DH before the affair at times due to house moves and changes I had to make to accommodate him and his work, mainly. The fallout of the affair has forced us to reassess a lot of things and begin to redress the causes of resentment. Our counsellor said that one aspect of recovery is starting to act as a couple again, which we realised we hadn't been doing for years and years.

Thundersighs · 06/04/2011 15:02

I'm glad you are feeling better WBB, well done for putting you point across, it finally sounds like its sunk in.

I'm all over the place today - I just found out that the OW has died! She fell down the stairs in a drunken stupour and died from head injuries. I have wanted her gone from our area for so long that I feel like I wished this on her.

walesblackbird · 06/04/2011 15:05

OMG - Thundersighs. What a terrible shock. How are you coping?

Thundersighs · 06/04/2011 16:20

It just feels really weird to know she has gone, I feel so sorry for her DC but otherwise I can't put it into words.

thumbwitch · 06/04/2011 16:35

Wow, Thundersighs - that is really amazingly awful and weird! Shock
FGS though, rid yourself of any feelings of guilt or that you wished it on her - it just doesn't happen! Honestly! Although we'd all love to believe that karma would be visited upon the thieving women who take our men, it so rarely happens that it cannot be anything than and unfortunate coincidence.

How is your DH feeling about it? Has he said?

Thundersighs · 06/04/2011 18:11

A very good friend, one of the few who knows the situatuon, called and told me as she had heard through her DD who is friends with the OW's DC. I told the H before he heard from someone else as I wanted to judge his reaction. He said that she was clearly in a spiral of self-destruction and feels sorry for the young adult DC but other than that nothing really, there is clearly no feeling there but it was basically a ONS though, they didn't have time to develop it into a full-blown emotional affair and it was nearly 3 years ago. I find it all very confusing and unsettling.