Recovery after an affair

[sheba2288]

After taking huge adviceand comfort, and despite Robberbutton's change in situation, I know there are a couple of us 'survivors' out there. So this is a thread in which I hope we can help survive together.

Brief background on my situ - been with H for 20plus years, married with 2 DCs. H had affair with work colleague last year. I discovered last July. Had a rough summer/autumn, 2 close relatives' deaths added to our turmoil.

Since this Feb, there has been a turning point (thanks to MN advice), and things are starting to be a lot more positive. However.... I am often felt let down and hurt. When does it all go away????

These past few weeks, I have seen a big change in him. Being transparent in his actions, ie, phone, laptop access all given, and he has been quite sincere on occasions when he does open up. Fri night really floored me. He said he could see it coming - so why the hell he decided to carry on in that manner of not telling me he was heading for a blow-out. I wouldn't have minded, as he has been a bit stressed work-wise, and even though I do think gettind pi**ed is a bit infantile. He has been so good, commenting how he can't wait to get home, spending time with the kids, etc.

I feel quite numb. He has said he's said all he can. But really WTF? Why????? Yes, I can declare a 'if it happens again, that's it' scenario, but I just can't see how it all came about, when he has been as he has been. Typing this down is making me a bit queasy - is he really not committed?!

We're both talked out at the moment. He really doesn't get it.

BTW - how are you TSL? And Suff, haven't seen you on here this weekend, please let us know you're ok.

Could it just be a one-off? Recovery isn't a linear thing, at least in our case it is a series of peaks and troughs with a general but slow upward trend. How does he explain what happened? I hope not because he thought he deserved some time off from being good...

I am much the same, ok some days, not so ok others. We saw the counsellor again this morning and she has given DH things to think about, particularly concerning his behaviour at work, and the possibility of changing jobs. I hope he does move, difficult though that might be, because he needs a new start away from Ow's particular brand of poison.

Suff is ok I believe. PM her?

Sheba I think you sometimes have to stand back, sometimes we can't see the wood for the trees IYSWIM. Did he contact OW whilst he was out ? Has he been in contact with OW at all ? Or was this binge type behaviour that he has exhibited before and a behaviour you don't particularly like but have put up with in the past ie part of selfish, childish behaviour that all these men seem to exhibit ?

My DH had a gambling problem and at times during the first few months, he slipped back into old patterns of behaviour. I called him on it every time (they don't change over night) and we had many fraught discussions about it. It was about 7 months down the line where I caught him out, challenged his thinking, said that if he had done one particular then to be honest, it would have led to lying to me and following on with something else. I stood my ground, he tried to wriggle out of it, but finally admitted to me and himself that my senario would have happened. It was an epithany for both of us, I stood my ground and although fearful, did not back down and he had to admit to something very painful to himself.

But if I had found out he had been in touch with OW his feet would not have touched the floor on the way out . What I am trying to say, is that if this is the type of behaviour you want him to change, it won't happen overnight necessarily and there will be backward steps for you and him. It's interesting that he said it was on the cards, he needs to explore that part of himself, not necessarily with you but with a counsellor. My DH had some self-destruction patterns which he could not understand, but he is 4 weeks down on individual counselling now to really understand himself and how his dysfuncational childhood really screwed him up.

Bit of a ramble sorry, and hope it makes some sense.

Hi, I've only read some of the other posts but will go back and read them in detail later. This summer will be 3 years from discovery. In my case I realised what was happening pretty quickly and acted immediately. My H had met the OW socially through friends and they had slept together once, a few days before I realised what was happening. We were going through some difficulties of a family nature i.e. not to do with us as a couple. I absolutely would not allow him to blame his actions on this but it could have been the way in the OW needed (shoulder to cry on etc.) When he realised I suspected, through texts etc., he tried to deny it for a while but cracked eventually throught the guilt. He also crapped himself when he realised what he risked. I, like many others on here, wanted to make it work for the sake of the DC's. He has not put a foot wrong since as was devastated at the hurt he caused. I don't think they see it coming!

All I can say is things do get better. Most of the time things are back to 'normal' but sometimes I do get angry about it. I think its only natural. On saturday we were driving through our town and saw the OW staggering out of a pub with a glass in her hand, trying to cross the road. I don't know how I suppressed to urge to lash out at him for risking my lovely DC's future on such a tramp but instead I said nothing and it wasn't mentioned although he must have known I had seen her. Seeing her ruined the rest of the weekend and mothers day though and I spent much of it in the loo with silent tears running down my face. He doesn't know that. He says the reason it happened was that he was low and she caught him at a vulnerable time, he was flattered and never thought I would find out. It never crossed his mind that it would endanger our little family unit and I think this is typical - they act out of a selfish desire for excitement and think they are somehow invincible. The saddest thing for me is that it will always be there, no matter how deeply buried, I will always know what he did. That said, I would much rather have what I have now than be like the OW, single and desperate, sleeping with other people's partners to make herself feel superior (I have confronted her and know this is how she see it). There is a element on MN that feels you should 'leave the cheating scumbag' but where there are DC's involved I think that is a very simplistic ideal, as is the one where seemingly intelligent people state that the OW is not to blame, as they are not the ones that made a commitment. That is just rubbish, the OW steal from you, and they know they are stealing. You are all amazing and strong women, sometimes the easiest thing is to walk away.

Wonder if it was the same OW Thundersigns

The same OW as yours Counting? I will go back and have a read after the school run One of the things I did to terrify him was look for her on dating sites (and what a suprise, there she was with 10 years off her age) and print it all out for him to see when he got home from work.

Great post Thunder. Interesting to read that you still have episodes of being upset. I am almost 2 years into recovery and still get very upset (usually due to triggers like seeing her unexpectedly).
What made you confront the ow and how did it pan out?
I have never as much as acknowledged my H's ex ow's presence ( when we have had the misfortune to have been at the same event as her). I would not be able to control myself once started, IYKWIM.

Thanks for the input.

Yes, H has had incidents in the past where he has been on benders. It was a bit of a joke amongst friends, the male ones took an attitude of 'good on yer' and the girls who say to me that I must be an angel and thinking he was a selfish twat. It is with this kind of attitude that he acted out the affair, pretending it was a work social, some occasions were, and then once his clients/guests had gone, he was taking up with the BBB. Before the affair he had a bunch of work related pals (most of which have ahd affairs) that he would again take up the drinking with after the work do (all hang around the same functions). These are the ones he still hangs out with now - have not seen them since discovery - in fact one of them is partly involved in this tangled mess (long story!). So it's understandable that I get tetchy as all memories come flooding back.

H had a very sheltered youth, even in uni, he didn't do the whole drinking thing, and in recent years its as though he has been trying to act out a misplaced youth. But when you're now in your 40s and you have 2 kids, it all seems a bit sad? I certainly don't mind a good night out, can even admit to getting sloshed on the odd occasion, but not at his frequency. This is a person whose own mother doesn't know he drinks anything stronger than a coke!

No, there hasn't been evidence of him contacting OW outside of work. And apart from last fri, he hasn't done this since last Oct, when he was still not yet committed. He did try to explain (amidst my anger) that he was finding it hard to take in what he did, hence the need for a drunken wallow. Still seems a childish, selfish act.

But after reading your replies, maybe I have just taken it a tad on the over reacting scale. Still don't regret my outburst, I just couldn't calm down.

He has had the balls to phone today so give him a little credit I suppose....

TSL glad you are both going to counselling - we haven't been for a while - don't know if it may be a good idea for us again. He hates it though....

Over-reacting? Good grief, where on earth do you get that idea Sheba?

I can't remember if you have, but did you read Not Just Friends? Your H's individual and lifestyle vulnerabilities appear to have remained unchanged.

He's still hanging out with people who aren't friends of your marriage, people who knew what was going on and are unfaithful themselves?

He stays out late drinking and doesn't tell you where he is?

And the man who wouldn't speak about his affair for 6 months, won't go for counselling because he hates it?

You're selling yourself short here Sheba if you are trying to talk yourself out of being angry about this, or if you fail to see what this all demonstrates.

Aisling I know what you mean! It was rage that made me confront the OW, how dare she! I knew who she was but didn't know her personally and I wanted her to know I knew what was happening and scare her off. It worked too, not that my H wanted to know her once I found out. She did try and deny it and had to cheek to say that nothing had happened but she could have him if she wanted him, so I said go ahead and see what happens. She phoned my H and left a crying message telling him that I had threatened her but he had already given me his phone. Lets just say I left her in no doubt that she would be very sorry if she approached him again. Some people may think this sounds desperate but I was fighting for my family.

Counting you are so right about them having affairs 'down', in my case the OW is older than me and has had so much botox she looks permanently surprised. No dogs though, at the time she had poor unfortunate feral foster children that she dragged around pubs trawling for men. This is even more tragic as the children had lost their mother in terrible, public circumstances and then they were placed with a trollop. Luckily they have since been moved on.

One of the hardest things when you have decided to try and make it work is that you tell very few people about the affair and that isolates you further.

WWIFN - his friends did not know about the affair whilst it was happening.

He hates counselling in that he is unable to hide. He did tout the idea that he would go for indiv counselling but that has not transpired.

I KNOW I'm selling myself short - I feel I have not been given the respect before, during or after this affair. And even though I have screamed and cried myself silly, it seems to all go fine for a few weeks, then boom - an incident like this occurs. What else can I do?

He cannot remove himself from the industry as it's the only thing he knows and qualified for. Since discovery, last week was one of few times he has actually socialised with them (I can count maybe 3 times).

I have read NJF - I have used it to explain to him what 'walls' need to be put up wrt OW, and this he has done.

The problem I seem to have is not that I suspect anything, it's the way he tries to 'forget' - he's like a child, a mistake made, and apology and then a promise it won't happen again. I'm sick of it.

I think it's important not to focus too much of your anger on the OW. She is not the one who has betrayed you.

Well you said Sheba that one of these friends was involved in "this mess", so it seemed likely that he at least, knew. From what you've said about your female friends' reactions, they have described you as a "saint" which is usually diplomatic shorthand for the observation that they wouldn't tolerate these sort of male, cockwaving benders.

You also said you'd read NJF, but am I right in thinking that your H hasn't?
Why is that?

What has he actually done to understand his infidelity Sheba? I remember your story and it seems that for about 6 months, life more or less carried on as normal for him - he refused to talk to you about the affair and was ambivalent about committing to his marriage. Do you have any actual physical evidence that he hasn't kept in touch with the OW? She still works with him, doesn't she?

I think the word you've used yourself is really significant - respect. His actions have shown the opposite of that and it seems he makes empty promises, that he has no intention of keeping.

When you say "What can I do?" that implies you feel you've got no choices. If he also thinks you've got no choices, then where's the incentive to change? Do you think he knows that when it comes to it, you will back down again and not leave him?

I feel wretched for you, because you have been so badly hurt and you seem to have kept this marriage afloat virtually single-handed. I cannot imagine how you got through all those months burying the thing that had caused you so much pain, bit was off-limits for discussion because he couldn't cope with it (and yes I know there was a bereavement, but I think he hid behind that...a lot).

You really do have some choices going forward and he needs to believe that you will exercise them. Please don't settle for this - you and your DCs are worth so much more than this and as you know, if the behaviour that permitted his infidelity is still there and his values haven't really changed, then this will happen again.

WWIFN - I've just PM'd you.

Pfft, I hate that attitude. In my case she knew exactly what she was doing and got what she deserved from me. If more people got angry then cowardly OW may not be in such a hurry to shag other people's men (and OM with women IYSWIM)

But your H is the only one responsible for your relationship.

Of course, I don't think it's anywhere near an honourable thing to do, having sex with someone you know to be married, and things take on another dimension if the OW is known to you, or is a friend - then there is betrayal.

But I do think that a lot of women in this situation focus a lot of their anger on the OW, filtering it away from their H. As if these women stole their husbands, or their husbands were somehow charmed away.

This is exactly the sort of attitude I alluded to in my earlier post. There ARE predatory women who set out to do just that, go back over the last 7 pages and read for yourself. However, I don't think this is the thread for this discussion, we are supposed to be supporting each other. What I did made me feel better and if it made the OW think twice about causing pain for some other woman then good. How I dealt with my H is separate issue from dealing with her. I would confront anyone who deliberately set out to hurt me, steal from me or humiliate me whatever the circumstances. Why is that so hard to understand?

Look, I'm not meaning to be unsupportive. And I really wasn't trying to start a discussion around that issue. I do really think that it does a lot of women no good to direct their anger at the OW in lieu of their H. I'm sure that there are predatory women, but I am pretty sure that they are in a minority of cases of infidelity. I just don't like the way that it takes responsibility away from the H. And I have read all of the pages, I read them all before I posted about my own issues.

It's not hard to understand. I'm sorry that I've upset you, if I have. I didn't mean to - I came here looking for support as well. Apologies. I'll just leave well alone.

Well done Thunder as I said earlier I would not have been able to trust myself not to go ballistic if I started on her as I have done with my H.

Pfft, I wasn't trying to start a fight, its just that this particular thread is about getting over an affair and rebuilding the relationship. Yes of course I was, and still am, angry about my H's behaviour but I can't keep having the same arguments about it with him over and over again if we have any hope of moving on. The OW is different, she knew about me and went for it anyway so she bears 50% of the responsibility and has looked me in the face and denied it all, so of course I focus some anger on her. It may not be healthy but there it is. I am sorry if I went off on you, I just get tired of seeing threads absolving the other person and encouraging the wronged party to leave which I don't think is always the right advice if its the first time and there are DC's involved.

Thundersighs, I'm with you on this one. DH and OW were equally to blame, she gave him the stick with which to beat me and my family. She did know he was married with 4DC and I am sure it was some sort of challenge to her. When he left me, she started to view me as the OW, my DH couldn't comprehend it all ..... Yes, dear you were played and you fell for it good and proper (idiot).

Counting they could be sisters! When my H ran into her in the street about 18 months later (she was pissed as usual) she was ranting about how everything was fine until I got in the way. He now feels totally 'played' and realised pretty quick that he had only ever seen her in pubs so she was unlikely to have ever been sober. It gives me great satisfaction that he feels like (and is) such an idiot

In fact if it wasn't for the dogs I would be convinced it was her!

I contacted my dh's OW too. She knew he was married (as was she) and as far as I'm concerned that makes her equally culpable. I didn't just project my anger on to her alone - my dh bore the brunt of it and, to an extent, still is. But I do feel angry that a woman, herself married, herself with a husband who'd betryed her, would have so little understanding and so little feeling for another woman. I wouldn't do it but then I like women - clearly the OW, possibly because of her husband's affair, had very little respect for other women.

Frankly I don't care - she was equally as guilty and she deserved my wrath in the same way that my dh did.

Exactly WBB, but its not a very popular opinion on MN which amazes me quite frankly. I've seen lots of other people flamed for saying the same thing