Tips for dealing with toxic SIL

[BornAgainDomesticGoddess]

My SIL hates me and has done since me and DH first started dating yonks ago. This started before she had even met me or knew anything about me. DH and I are now married with 2 DC and are very happy. However, she continuously does hurtful, spiteful things to me and is constantly trying to persuade DH to leave me even though he is (in his words) "extremely happy and with his soul mate".

She does odd things. For instance, when she is around me, she pulls 'disgusted' faces all the time. She ignores me completely and if DH leaves the room, she will follow him. If she comes to dinner and I have cooked, she will push the food around her plate with the same disgusted look and not eat any of it. However, if DH has cooked it, she will eat it no problem. She has sent Christmas Cards to DH and the DC, but left my name off. Years ago, when we told her we were trying for DC1, she said, "don't have a baby with her - it will end up being another spaz" (my daughter from a previous relationship has some special needs).

She is constantly stirring up trouble between me and DH and me and the PIL. Unfortunately, she is the favourite child, so they justify everything she says and does with, "oh, I'm sure she didn't mean it" or "that's just how she is" or "you are being over-sensitive". No-one ever stands up to her. About a year ago she did something particularly vile and I demanded an apology. She refused and I ended up having to back down even though I shouldn't have. Most of it is pretty unremarkable stuff, for instance we were going round to the PIL for dinner and she emailed my DH to say, "mum and dad are really looking forward to seeing their son and grandchildren" (deliberately leaving me out). I know it's petty, but wouldn't most normal people say "mum and dad are really looking forward to seeing you all"? She is also always trying to get DH to go on holiday with her and our DC, but leaving me behind.

Over the years, it has really eaten away at my self-esteem. I have always taken her dislike of me very personally. However, recently my DH mentioned that she was exactly the same with his first DW (they were young and only married for a few months). I can't believe he never mentioned it before, but at last I can see that it isn't me!

The thing that worries me is that the DC witness her bad treatment of me and I think I am setting a bad example by putting up with it. I am so tempted to tell her to stay out of our lives, but I am just not brave enough.

So I need some survival strategies. Anyone? Thanks

Shouty, I have tried that, but he just refuses to stand up to her. The other thing is that he is very secretive with her (and the PIL, for that matter). When we had that big falling out and didn't speak to her for ages, he was going behind my back emailing her and stuff all the while saying that he wasn't having any contact with her. Honestly, it's ridiculous and I know I'll get flamed for this, but I go through his phone sometimes to see what's going on with his family because he doesn't tell me anything. It was through reading his emails that I got to know what she was saying about me behind my back. Terrible, I know.

Hope I don't lose your sympathies at this point

BADG

If she is narcissitic in terms of personality the only way forward is keeping your distance both physically and emotionally.

I also don't think your DH is so much spineless as has become completely conditioned by his own family unit to believing that "this is the way she is", his version therefore of "normal".

Oh and to offer something of possible help re your earlier post - after the cutting out process (however it ends up happening!) when/if people ask why, when her behaviour hasn't worsened, you could just shrug, look a little saddened (!) and just say something like 'Well, it was just years of abuse, really. I initially felt that I could deal with it - I mean, you have to feel sorry for someone with issues like hers - but once the children started to notice and it began to affect them, I had to take action'.

Something along those lines dropped into conversation around MIL may be a good way of alerting them to the fact of what they stand to lose if they continue to blindly support SIL. The key thing would be, DON'T EVER get into the situation where your DH is taking the kids, without you, to visit SIL/PIL when SIL is there. They lose you, they lose the kids. Cutting SIL out doesn't translate as YOU ending up cut out of family events when SIL is there. Make sure your DH knows this - not that he should need telling! - your family a. is a package and b. comes first!

I have a nightmare SIL, too. Not as bad as yours, who sounds awful.

At one stage DH dismissed the problems as "you and my Sister not getting along". It took several years for him to notice that it was her being rude to me, and that I didn't retaliate, and then for him to act on this.

A few things I did
1/ Never slagged her off to DH, or any of their family. This is what made him realise that it was her problem rather than her and me both having a problem with each other; the fact that she'd bitch about me to him, but I didn't do the same. Men don't like having the women in their lives bitched about, whoever does it.
2/ Set my boundaries, in my head, and challenged her (directly, to her face) everytime she said something that crossed them. She's great at backhanded compliments like "I wish I was as relaxed as you are. I wouldn't be able to sit down and relax with the kitchen floor as dirty as yours is now. Rather than feeling hurt, I'd reply "You make it sound like you think I live in a hovel! That's not very polite actually." At which, she's back down slightly, and apologetically.

It has got better over time; DH told her never to bitch about me to him again or he'd stop seeing her, and she has. All the extended family have realised that she was bullying me, and because I rose above it (as far as they could tell) have sided with me.

But as I say, she wasn't as blatantly bad as your SIL.

X-posts! Oh, wow. No, symapthy gained rather than lost, m'dear!

A slightly different situation then. Going behind your back - well, it's either a case of him having clearly no conception of where his loyalties should lie, and being a bit of a shit, or (more likely) as he's said, he's a spineless wimp whose bum must be packed to the perineum with all the splinters from that fence he perches on. As others have said though, conditioning is a big thing and it IS hard for him to leave that 'script' behind.

But if he isn't to undermine his whole adult family life, he needs to confront it. The problem is as much him as SIL.

So, only option is nuclear. How TOUGH do you feel?!

A good and effective plan might run thus:

1. Explain to DH that as of from today, SIL is no longer in your life or that of the children. He knows why. He argues: you say that her attitude will affect the children if this carries on any more, therefore no discussion. Also, his actions prior to this have shown that he will not tackle the issue, which also translates as refusing to act for the good of his own wife and children, so you have decided to do it instead. She is not allowed in the house. You will not be going to events she is at. PIL can decide whose presence is preferred: you and children, or her, at any joint event.
2. You say that you wish to start joint counselling to tackle the issues this raises about where his loyalties lie. No discussion. If you feel up to it, you tell him that you know he goes behind your back to PIL and SIL(I would - I think this is massively important! - even though you have to come clean about the emails etc.). You then state, very clearly, that ultimately, this behaviour threatens your marriage. If you aren't first with him...one day he'll wake up to find that he isn't first with you. Ask him if he'll enjoy only having PIL and SIL to commiserate with then.

And take it from there...

I agree with Checkmate's plan of action.

no 2 especially is very important - challenge her whenever she crosses the boundaries and makes nasty comments.

Good luck x

The only power she has is everyone accepting 'that's just the way she is'.

If you are prepared to say something every time she does anything, it will help.

If you can get you husband on side that will tip the balance completely.

im totally shocked by this that your dh gets emails saying stuff and doesnt stand up to her for you then, if he is getting emails slating you he cant deny that she is toxic! i couldnt have coped in this situation as well as you have! i would have knocked her out at the comment when you were pregnant! my dh has 2 options with saying things to his family, he says it in his nicey nicey way or I say it in my not so nice way!!! so he normally comments as hes worried about the nuclear dropout my comment would cause!!!

I think just having it pointed out to me that SIL .Xs DBs wife and MIL were indeed toxic helped me alot.For 16yrs I put up with them both just sending me negative vibes .MIL called me by SIL s name the entire time.Turned out SIL went out with my X as teens,then married bro.On my wedding day she asked X if he was sure he was doing the right thing,we lasted another 7 years after that ,Anyway she already had 2 kids and when i got pg with ds ,X told DB b4 the rest of the family and yep when we announced the pregnancy ,she chips in ,so r we LOL!Short time after ds was born i got pg again ,didnt tell anyone till i was 4mths gone but yes u guessed it 2 mths later she is pg .
Best bit about my divorce is i will never have to see these people again.Since X walked out on us they have seen dcs twice ,they live about 20 mins away and SIL and BIL have never seen my kids or any of their 4 cousins.
This isnt about u OP its all about them ,but work on ur own self confidence so u dont feel bullied by these people and they back off,but mine used to ignore me when i put them straight ,i once went for asleep on xmas day for 2hrsP ,just couldnt be arsed ,SOOOOO BORING !!!!

What I did - and it was the only time I ever did it because my Now-XH didn't back me was, when toxic SIL came to my house and starting slagging me off (she called me a slut and a whore and said the day I married XH was the darkest day ever in the history of the whole family)

Well, I told her to leave.

She said "It's half XH house you can't put me out"

I said "Whatever bit you're in it's in my half, so get the fuck out"

But as I said he didnt' back me, over that and other stuff and it was a big factory is us splitting.

"When we had that big falling out and didn't speak to her for ages, he was going behind my back emailing her and stuff all the while saying that he wasn't having any contact with her."

Due to this ^ I think you are in a no win situation here...unless your DH starts showing you some loyalty then this will never be sorted. SIL (his family) has too much power over your DH at the moment - any confrontation with SIL imo will backfire unless DH is completely on your side.

Be careful SIL really does have the upperhand here...I'd be going for non confrontational avoidance if anything.

I'm gobsmacked at your DH's disloyalty tbh...

i would always sudden;y feel ill if she invited me round to hers. i wouldn't invite her round to mine.

if she turned up unannounced and started to go to the kids rooms, i would call her down and tell her that you find it inappropriate.

if ever you do make a comment to her, make sure she's on her own - then you can say she is overreacting and she is over sensitive and she took it the wrong way and she took it out of context.

tbh in your shoes i would get her on her own and say " look you don't like me, so why don't you just leave us the fuck alone. try telling anyone that this conversation happened and i'll deny it. now fuck off love"

I'm gobsmacked at your DH's disloyalty tbh...

Yeah, I have to say, I doubt my marriage is going to last to the end of the year at this point. Shame really, because apart from the problems with his family, DH and I are perfectly happy.

But then she wins....

I wouldn't want that under any circumstances. I would carry on inviting her but comment on every little thing.

If she pushes her food around take it off her & put the food in the bin. Tell her its obvious you dont like it.

Have the children already dressed in the clothes she has bought. Get the toys out also & put everything else away. Take the control away from her. It may or may not work but it will definitely annoy her!

Oh yuck, firstly. That's my reaction to her blatantly (dare I say the word?) almost incestuous approach to your husband. She really makes my skin crawl.

Secondly, I speak as someone who's cut one of my own sisters out of my life. In my favour, so has the entire family (apart from my parents) as she's so awful. Let me put this in the terms that I would approach your situation:

I think you should attend a counseling session with your partner, where you can lay your feelings about this entirely on the line. And in front of a sympathetic/objective audience. He has been complicit in the emotional abuse of you over the years by not standing up for you. That's my opinion. You'll need him on side to help to enforce your new rules.

I would ban her from coming to my house while I am there. If she asks, tell her that you think she has a problem and you have no interest in knowing her. Leave it at that. Someone, somewhere along the line will have indicated this. She can't have lived her life like that without someone else realising.

Secondly, do you think you're doing the right thing by not being honest with your children about this? My eldest sister will never meet my children - not for as long as I can control that (she might meet them accidentally), but I have no way of not allowing them to know that she exists. That she is unstable and not someone I'd wish them to be around will be made clear to them when they're a bit older (the first is still in my womb). I'm not suggesting that you ban the children from seeing their aunt - but do be more honest with them (to a degree, of course) about what kind of person she is.

On other family occasions where you have no choice but to be there (and do think about this - an intimate family meal might be worth avoiding, whereas you'd have to go to something bigger like a wedding), you have to get your partner to put on a united front with you. In fact, I believe you have to get him to do this anyway. This is where the counseling comes in. "I'm spineless" just doesn't cut it. Anyone in your position would feel victimised and hurt. Indeed, as far as I'm concerned, abused.

I just thought I would say my MIL is NPD . She also behaved inappropriate to DP, when he was a teenager he asked for privacy in the bathroom, she took the lock off the door and when DP would cover with a flannel she would laugh at him. She was constantly nasty and undermining me, she also saw a dress I had bought for a wedding and went and bought a similar one, which was silly as I was 20 and she ws 50. SIL can also behave similar.

DP rarely stood up to them but last year I threw MIL out as she was frightening my children I told her not to come back and she phisically attacked me. DP intervened and removed her. As soon as this happended he stopped being scared almost like he had seen someone stand up and knew he could to. He has told them we want nothing to do with them and is perfectly happy. It saved our relationship.

Hi BornAgainDomesticGoddess

Seems such a shame that your DH just will not stand up for you and your DC. What SIL said about your DC should really have been the catalyst for him taking a huge step away from his family.

All I can suggest is he has some counselling so he can 'see' what a supportive family should be....his compass of acceptable family behaviour seems to be well adrift at the mo.

Unfortunately though, if he can't/won't accept that his family are doing him more harm than good then I really don't know where you go from here.

I have a family of a similar ilk...and am totally no contact with my sister and parents. I know how difficult it is accept your family are dysfunctional...but once their behaviour impacted upon my DC's that was my 'enough is enough' time.

I really don't understand you DH's seemingly accepting the comment regarding your DC...your child is half his after all...so SIL's comment also included him! Why is he not offended on his own behalf at the very least??

All I can think is he is so well indoctrinated into the 'nastiness' that he really does think it's all perfectly normal....either that or his self-esteem is so damaged he believes their comments are actually true and justified??

I've been lurking since you started this thread and the more I think about it, the more walls I come up against...I just don't know how to deal with SIL et al without your DH being on side at all...if he is bitching about you to SIL behind your back he is defo' not on your side.

I would also be struggling to respect my DH if he carried on like that...we are a 'unit' he is supposed to be inside that unit not playing silly sods and one-up-man-ship to be the favoured sibling in PIL's eyes. Life gets a bit tough...he blames you...and moans to SIL and Co. Why is he demonising you to his family...why doesn't he want you to get along...why is he not taking responsibility for looking out for his family??

SIL & PIL's maybe the immediate 'symptom' in all this, but I really think the root cause here is your DH's lack of loyalty to you...by bitching behind your back he is feeding their animosity...he is giving them the ammo' to fire!

I wish you loads of luck with this, especially as you and DH when left alone are doing fine, but I do feel the battle with SIL (and PIL's) is going to be a continuous one...unless your DH steps up and calls time on it all. xx

Do you have children with your husband?

I think the problem is with your husband he needs to see you as his family and his sister and mum and dad as relatives.

I will get flamed but if you try everything else and it does not work i would have a tril separtion with my husband and show him what he has to lose. It might wake him up to what he has and what he needs to do to keep his family.

He needs to understand how you feel and to see what his sister is doing and then protect his family from it.

Then as a family avoid her at all cost.

Cut her out op , but bear in mind what shouty has said or you will end up being excluded . If your husband wants to go and see her he can do so by himself , i wouldnt have the dcs go and i wouldnt have her in your house ever again .

I wouldnt ask your husband about this, i would tell him , and if he kicks up a stink id make it very very clear that this lack of support is not good enough and if it continues you are going to rethink your marriage. He has effectiveley stood by while this vile cow abuses you .

I have a confession. I am very close to my younger brother, and no girl is ever good enough for him. I'm not keen on my SIL, but I have never said a word against her to my brother. My borther loves her, and I keep schtum. My brother has always been v supportive of me, and I would hate to upset him, or loose him.

I suggest your husband speaks to SIL, and tells her that he loves you and that you need to be treated with respect. If she is still horrid, you and DH need to consider cutting her out.

I agree with shouty and checkmate.

Thanks again for all your replies. I have read and re-read them and it has given me the strength to cut this vile woman out of our lives. I have spoken to DH about this. He apologised for not standing up for me, but said that she is the DC's aunt, so I can't really cut her out. Well, I can. DH can do what he likes. He can go and see her and spend time with her, but me and the DC will be staying away. He understands this. However, he asked me what I plan on doing once the SIL has children of her own. She is currently trying for a baby, so it is likely that this will present itself as a problem in the not-too-distant future.

The thing is I don't know. What does everyone think? Any advice?

Thanks

I dont see why her reproducing would affect your contact , your H can go and see her offspring , you dont have to . Well done by the way.

I would let your H go, but no way would I ever see her, and I would not allow him to take the DC's