Genuine question, can a woman ever be responsible for making a man hit her?

[Jic]

Because that's the response I get from my husband. I've been hit about seven or eight times now, in the course of our relationship. I am utterly at a loss because I know exactly what I'd say to any woman in my position, I would say, get out and never look back. So why the fuck can't I take my own advice? Why do I truly believe it's my fault, that I made him do it each time, he says I push him to the limit? What if I do? Is it justified then? I'm so so confused.
What a ramble, just had to get it down.

Only just read this. What a twat. He is the loser here. You have your whole life ahead of you to make things better for your kids. Can you ring a friend though given that you are so (understandably) upset?

I'm going to bed now but try and get some sleep yourself too if you can't speak to anyone. Things always feel worse at night.

Thanks eighties, I'll try and get some sleep.
Just managing to function at the moment, feeding the kids, washing them etc- just can't cope with much more. I don't really have a close friend I can confide in, no one knows anything about it.

sweetheart phone womens aid for a chat... They won't mind you just ringing for a chat and it might help you to have a bit of a shoulder to cry on.

Sorry, I'm finding this a bit difficult to follow, but you're saying that you now have your own place with the kids? If so, then that's great, you don't need that arsehole.
Stay safe and keep going one day at a time...
Pop over to this thread for some more dv support but in the mean time I would phone womens aid or somebody for some real life support just now

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1219427-Support-for-those-in-Emotionally-Abusive-Relationships

Hi Jic
I haven't read your thread before but I've Just read your post about him whipping you from had to toe with a tea towel :(
That one act is enough to make it worth leaving him IMHO, let alone all the other stuff.
Please please do what you can to escape - for your kids and for you

Laura xxx

Where abouts are you jic? I would happily be your friend if I lived near you as would many others who have read your story.
You are not alone in this - there are many who can help you if you let them

Do not let him take the children tomorrow. Just don't.

Maybe someone else will disagree with me, but if you've only just left this weekend, you need to get legal advice before you go down this route. Do whatever you can but don't let him have your children.

I'm in London, Laura

I feel so alone

Jic please phone womens aid for a chat... not to discuss anything major, just to speak to someone who will understand how you're feeling

Here is the number
0808 2000 247

Have you ever hit him, for making such a ridiculous claim?

No?

Well, shows even the most extreme provocation can be overcome, doesn't it.

What he is doing is a crime. It's that serious. And he is blaming the victim of a violent crime, to compound his culpability. Because that's what you are, if he hits you - you're the victim of a violent crime.

Funny how men like this never seem to think thumping a bloke twice their size is quite so inescapable. If he can pull back from doing that, he can control it. And if he genuinely can't control it, then it's not you, but him, isn't it?

Please contact Women's Aid. Violence has an emotional impact. It's all well and good epople here saying "leave" but you need support so you feel emotionally tohether enough to do it, and someone abusing you violently and then convincing you it's your fault is bound to destroy your sense of self. It's a very clear, if indirect, statement that you gace no worth and do not matter. But you do have worth, you do matter - and given you are not the one hitting people, then seeking to make them shoulder the responsibility for your criminal activities, I'd say you have more worth than he does.

Argh, I am so very sorry, didn't realise how long this was (sleep deprived) - what a thread to do that on.

You are being SO BLOODY BRAVE. Hang on in there - this is the final stretch to freedom.

Firstly this man knows you. Of course he hasn't truly written you out of his life - he is saying what he knows will hurt you as badly as he possibly can, plus guilt trip you, as a way of punishing you for stopping his control and abuse. He's trying to punish you emotionally because you finally made consequences attach to his physical abuse. You can't report him to the police for emotional abuse. He is talking utter and complete bollocks - if he didn't care he'd not be saying this crap at all. He'd just be bothered about seeing the kids. He knows you and knows what buttons to press and is ramming as hard as his porky little fingers will let him. Those words are NOT about forcing you away at all. He's trying to scare you into thinking he doesn't love you any more, so he can reel you back in. It's a game, to reassert his control over you and over the relationship, by smashing your new-found resistance and independence down. That simple. You were so emotionally dependant on him and he was so inside your head that his threatening to abandon you is still frightening, right? And he knows it. A classic abuser line, when being nice, is "what would you do without me, hey?" chuckle, chuckle, hug, "you're hopeless." Drip, drip, drip. And he is pressing his nuclear option because that's all he has left. That and the fact that self-pity and a powerful sense of entitlement are also abuser traits, and your DARING to challenge his control over his property (that would be you) will trip those, too.

As for "ultimate betrayal" - what, getting some protection against his violence is a betrayal, while him beating you is not? My God.

Please don't let him have the kids until you have some sort of legal arrangement for residence etc set up. You sound like you still think that it is YOU that is triggering him, "making" him be this way, rather than who he is, and would be no matter who he was with. I do not think you can be so certain that he'd not harm them, tbh, because this is not about you - the lack of remorse, blaming the victim, psychological terrorism, emotional abuse is too systematic. There is also a concern that he might just refuse to hand them back, surely? For a loving mum that would be pretty punitive, and he has to know that.

Please don't feel alone. You aren't alone. You can post here any time and we are all real people, just in different parts of the country. If you need a voice at the end of the connection Women's Aid will help. I do think talking to women who have been there, got out, and built happy and rewarding lives in freedom will be a huge support, no? And there is your Mum. I so hope you've told her what you've been up against, by now. You need a bit of mothering, IMO. Wish we lived in London, or even near, because I'd tell you to come over to mine.

Hang on in there. You can't get brainwashing like you've been subjected to wiped clean overnight, but you've made a phenomenally good start. I think you are very, very brave. And one day, reading all this back, you'll be as awed by your younger self's guts as I am, now.

Haven't posted in a while, it's been really tough but now he is talking about going back to his country and wanting to start a new life. He wants to take the kids, and me. He says that everything can be fixed if we try hard enough, that he loves me and can't be without me. I cant do it. I can't go there. I feel like he's going to fight for the kids. I don't want them to never see them again, or be ferried between us I feel like I need to sacrifice my own happiness for theirs.
There's been no violence because we're not together although he lives only a few streets away. It's been civil. Kids are ok. I'm feeling vulnerable again, like I need comfort and stability which I feel I don't have, but I know I can't be happy with him.
The abuse I've suffered as a child and as an adult leaves me wanting to be looked after, but I know it can't come from him but what about the kids. I don't trust him not to take them away from me.

I wouldn't be able to cope if they were taken away from me

No, Jic, you don't need to go anywhere. If he leaves that is his choice. It is not fair or right for him to take their father away from them (he would be doing the "taking away", not you) but it is worse for them to be taken away from their mother, because you are the non-abusive parent as well as the main carer. You do not need to follow him around the world to give him access to his children. All he has to do is not emigrate, or make regular trips back to see them.

Everything can be fixed if "we" try hard enough? Is he saying that if he was in his country he'd manage not to hit you? Pull the other one.

I don't know the practicalities of passports and stuff, sorry. Legal advice is probably called for here - from the CAB initially if you're short of money. I think, though, if the children are established in one country, he would have to make one hell of a case to take them to another. But do get this checked out.

Jic - I'm sorry for the hell you have been put through, I experienced abuse too with my ex but now I've got my life back. You will one day be strong again too.

I want to say that I don't for one minute believe that this pathetic excuse for a man has ANY intention of leaving to 'start a new life' for himself, IMO he will say anything to reel you back in.
He KNOWS that you won't want your kids to be ferried from Country to Country, so I suspect he feels that you will go back to him just so this doesn't happen.

He will use EVERY trick in the book to make you cave in, please don't.

NEVER EVER return to an abuser !!!!!!!!!

Posting as someone who grew up watching my stepfather abuse my mother emotionally and physically on a regular basis I would say please please get away and stay away for the sake of your DCs.

jic I don't normally post on these threads, but I did just want to add a few things in light of your new post.

(a) he would have to make on HELL of a case against you to remove the kids firstly from their place of birth and place of residence and, far more importantly, their primary care giver (i.e you) who's been raising them since you left him. PLEASE don't let his idle threats throw you into a sense of confusion about the law. It is on your side, and this doesn't even take into account the fact that he's previously been arrested and released with caution for DV!! No judge in their right mind would grant him custody of your children.
(b) You are not taking his kids away from him - if he is choosing to leave the country they live in of his own free will, then he is the one taking himself away from them. You cannot force him to stay, you cannot force him to be a father to them. However, I'm willing to bet my house that ALL this talk of returning to his home country is simply a ruse to make you think that you should get back with him. When he realises that you're not going with him and neither are the kids (because you're not), then I'm sure this "we can make it work" facade will drop immediately.

Don't get sucked in by any more of his nonsense - you know what we're saying is true, but if you need to here it from an "expert", then I'd definitely contact CAB or WA and get them to confirm what your rights are.

YOu've been so strong up until now, do you really want to go back to the life where you get whipped, and hit across the face, and where your children cower in a corner in fear??

Thank you all of you for still supporting me.

I feel like two different people sometimes. The one who wants to shout and scream at my foolishness for putting up with this so long. And the other one who thinks it's still her fault. I used to think that women who were in my position were stupid and would have some sense to walk away and why didn't they? But I think that DV is terribly damaging with regard to emotions as well as the physical side. The way I'm sucked in each time, what is wrong with me? I mean what is it? Why can't I do it right? We are apart now so why am I still listening to him?

He says a wife should follow her husband to wherever he goes, I said ages we should go to couple counselling but he point blank refused it. Can you see that I wanted this work so much? And the fact that he couldn't share anything with me ever and open up, be responsive, sympathetic, showed he cared when I needed it and it drove me to distraction and that's why we had so many rows.

Dear Jic, contact women's aid again and ask if there are any counsellors in your area they could recommend for you to talk to alone specifically about the effects of abuse on you and all your conflicted feelings.
I've gone from sobbing and wanting him back two months ago to really feeling quite strong and ready to begin the process of dealing with the practical stuff re the DCs.
Have a look at the Emotional Abuse thread and the book list. You can get to the place where you stop blaming yourself for anything and look at him for his own weakness with detachment. Lundy Bancroft is an eye-opener. And Hidden Hurt and Out of the Fog - google them. You are not alone in having been confused by this man's emotional inadequacy. No one who is rational, humane, empathetic, caring can ever quite believe that other people can behave like this.

Jic - You say ' We are apart now so why am I still listening to him? '

I think you still 'listen' to him because he is purely an accomplished abuser, he has brainwashed you into thinking there is something wrong with you when the ONLY one who has something wrong with them is HIM.

When you say "his country", which country is that and what rights to mothers have to their children post-divorce?

Robot it's Turkey. I'm really not sure how things look re mums and kids post divorce there.

Jic, you need proper legal advice re your kids. It'd be even more terrible to be stuck with this man abroad, away from sources of support.

I was in an abusive marriage (no DC though) and it took years to 'deprogramme' the mental stuff. If it's any consolation I'm 10 years away from it and it seems like another lifetime.

Big hugs.

Do NOT go to another country with him. Do NOT allow your children to get passports at the moment. You really don't want him to do a flit with them one day while you're at work.

Jic - I am so reminded of my sister while reading your posts. She became so isolated while she was with her abusive husband. She became fuddy duddy in her clothes, and really retreated emotionally from everyone.

She had him arrested once and he persuaded her that they could make it work with counselling. He only did that in an attempt to get back into the house and force her to leave - which he did by beating her up so badly she had to crawl to the phone and have our dad pick her up. She lost her voice for 3 months, and was a depressed shell of a person for quite awhile.

She now has 2 wonderful grown up boys (who want nothing to do with their father), is married to the most wonderfully supportive man, and is step mum to 2 lovely girls.

It took years of abuse before she could leave, and even when she did leave it took ages for her to climb out of the shell of depression. But she did it, and she is so happy and together now.

Please hold onto that - it can be incredibly hard, but the end point is so very worth it.

Jic, I PM'ed you but I see now your initial posts were a while ago, sorry!
This might help you make sense of your feelings.